How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

It doesn't solve the problem of empty classes or underpopulated classes.

You'd still have the same number of cars and the same number of classes.

You'd just be keeping them from moving. And you'd be preventing some cars from moving to a class they actually fit better, while some cars would be in a class they fit better.

Alan there were 50 classes in stock in 1978, There are 51 now.
In Superstock there are a lot of classes. And nhra does not seem to think this is a problem, they have added classes every year. For the past few years.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by art leong

Alan there were 50 classes in stock in 1978, There are 51 now.
In Superstock there are a lot of classes. And nhra does not seem to think this is a problem, they have added classes every year. For the past few years.

NHRA doesn't think a lot of things are a problem. Where is that getting us?

You cannot be all things to all people. You cannot have a class for everyone and every combination.

NHRA is just looking to add as many people as they can to pay membership dues, entry fees, license fees, chassis certification fees, etc.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

NHRA doesn't think a lot of things are a problem. Where is that getting us?

You cannot be all things to all people. You cannot have a class for everyone and every combination.

NHRA is just looking to add as many people as they can to pay membership dues, entry fees, license fees, chassis certification fees, etc.

Alan who is saying we have to many classes?
Dick Butler?????????

[art leong]

Originally Posted by A56

Possibly the Contingency Sponsers.

Mark Lelchook
E/SA #704

I follow the contingency deal pretty much. I could make $750 for a class win. Mopar paying $550 of it. The only sponsor I didn't have was Jiffy-Tite, Because I could not see buying fittings I would not need.
Most racers I talk to tell me they can only make a couple of hundred bucks to win class. With the number of classes a lot of them have no cars at all so no money is paid.
If you have an old national dragster look up the postings and you will see what I mean.
We are not talking about that much money here.
I feel this move is nhra's way of cutting expenses. they will give away a lot less jr oscars.
I don't believe they could care less if we run class or not. Or if we earn contingency money for it.
The new stuff is coupled with the reinstituting of the oil down policies, and the fines for pit vehicles. And I'll bet there is more to come shortly.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by art leong

Alan who is saying we have to many classes?

Art, how about we leave Dick Butler out of this? What has he got to do with anything anyway?


How many classes do we need?


When you have as many singles for class as you have contested races, you have too many classes.

It's called drag racing not drag soloing.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Art, how about we leave Dick Butler out of this? What has he got to do with anything anyway?


How many classes do we need?


When you have as many singles for class as you have contested races, you have too many classes.

It's called drag racing not drag soloing.

Alan In the sixties drag racing had 50 classes in stock. It was designed to give everybody a place to race. If you had a 6 cylinder packard, or a hudson hornet, there was a place for it. 55 chevy or a chrylser 300 there was a place for it
It seems like a lot of you guys only want to include the muscle cars. Not everyone can afford a 69 camaro or 70 barracuda. These "oddball" classes without a lot of competition in them are basicly affordable. To get them to run on the index is not to expensive. And people can have fun. If someone else builds a car for the class so be it.
These are the cars you want to do away with.
What really gets to me is a lot of you on here have accepted nhra's BS about the class win monies.
Alan if you won class last year. How much could/did you make?

[Ken Miele]

Art,

With all due respect, can we please stay on topic. Lets talk about what we can do about helping class racing. The back and forth bickering serves no purpose in this thread. I understand as everyone else does by your multitude of posts on this subject that you are not happy with the new program, but that's not what this thread is about.

Prospective sponsors that might read this forum do not want to see arguing, they would like to see alternatives and suggestions.

[Michael Beard]

The problem is, if we were to decide to take a hit, it makes us less competitive with the combinations in the class that decide not to take a hit. (...) Records don't pay points or money, and they'll never pay nearly as much of either as you can win for winning a race.

First, that goes back to the long-debated issues of the AHFS and the problems with how well combinations are factored. I've been saying for years now, take the years of data we have accumulated, and refactor EVERYTHING just once, right now, and then you could leave it virtually untouched for quite some time, and nobody would have to "protect their combo" anymore. The whole point of the AHFS is that if it's fast enough to get HP, then the combo is not factored correctly in the first place. As usual, don't hate the player, hate the game, but until they change the game, people will continue to play the game... which is completely contrary to the performance enthusiast's goals.

Secondly, the point was made in regards to Records based on actually having a solid contingency program, so yes, Records would pay, possibly significantly. And hoping not to paint with too broad of a brush or offend anyone, but realistically the record-setter go-fast guy and the eliminator winner are not always the same guys. Man! Remember the cam wars? (I was born too late, but heard stories) Creating some *serious* incentives for both Class and National Records and then actually *marketing* them? I know, crazy talk...

Re: FWD cars going away... I think this happened for multiple reasons. The consolidating of the classes went overboard, creating weight breaks so spread out to the point that the weight differences would never be seriously considered for the upper-level 'regular' Stock classes. They could've consolidated the classes without cutting them THAT deeply. I think another major consideration, one that affected a significant number of slower RWD classes as well, was the elimination of Deep Staging. That decision was helped along by the "majority rules" thought process... and people wonder why there are so many cars 11-sec and quicker now. "Careful what you wish for."

I won't rehash it here, but there were plenty of ideas posted earlier this winter about how to *reasonably* consolidate classes. But again, the majority didn't want anything to do with it, so you get something else handed to you.

Also something that I've promoted for years was simple *marketing* of the classes. Announcers have a considerable amount of control over the crowd, and they can leverage that. Presentation is key. I'll say it again: watch Larry Pfister's Horsepower Heaven videos, and love it or hate it, the *presentation* of PINKS All Out drew massive crowds and TV ratings to watch cars no faster and certainly not as unique as S/SS cars. And this conversation is nothing new. I remember talking about it in the '90s. Make the *choice* to market S/SS racing properly, and the sky is the limit.

$.02,

[Alan Roehrich]

Art, when did I say anything about doing away with any cars? I have no idea where you got that.

I said "consolidate classes, to an extent", meaning 1 pound weight breaks starting at 7.0.

I'm good with them letting the 55-59 cars back in, I wish there were more in the guide. I never said anything about doing away with any cars, and actually, for the most part, 1.0 pound weight breaks sure wouldn't make the least bit of difference to people already racing in the lower classes with 1.0 weight breaks to begin with.

We defended our class title at St. Louis last year, we beat Fletcher to do it. We got a Wally, and a few hundred bucks in contingency money.

When did Stock Eliminator become "me too" Eliminator? I thought it was about performance and racing, you know, actually having to race against another car in your class to win a class Wally and a few bucks.

I can easily see the point of a contingency sponsor NOT wanting to pay a bunch of people to simply show up at the track and drive through. And I can see the point of fans wanting to see an actual race, instead of a punch and coast single pass, too. They came to see a race. The spectators and the sponsors certainly have a reasonable expectation to see some real racing in a class that is supposedly a performance based eliminator. Those are the people we need to start trying to make happy. Without both of them, we are not going to last a whole lot longer.

Ken, you replied to Art while I was writing this, I'll be glad to edit it, or delete it if you like.

[Mike Pearson]

There are probably more single runs in the stick shift classes. I would combine the sticks and the autos. I would adjust the HP factors to be the same in the stick and auto classes. then monitor the results to see if one or the other should get a weight adjustment to make things as competitive as possible. I also think class should be run at every national event. This alone would stimulate car counts and more participation from the sponsors. Class runs would be run during qualifing. it usually never takes more than 4 rounds to complete class.

It just seems like the leadership that we have running thing now likes to make change for change sake. Every year they make changes that no one really wants. even some of the safety changes they have made recently seem unnessesary.