Mid-year horsepower posted @ nhra.com

[countrypuppy4865]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

You should have to win class to run the eliminator like when I was racing up until around 1978. If you dont win class then you dont deserve to run the eliminator. The AHFS would take care of those underrated HP factors in a hurry if they did that and put the PERFORMANCE back into stock and S/S. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

That would be the smart thing that way all A-E cars can just stay home unless you have a drag pak or cobra jet. As bad as the economy is this would end stock/ss racing. We are in 2010 not 1978. Things will change over time. This will never happen.

[Jared Jordan]

Can someone enlighten me as to the advantages of a 1 lb. weight break? I fail to see how that fixes anything. Sounds DECENT for a lower horsepower car that might have to add 200-300 lbs to move between classes, but what about the high horsepower stuff?

Example:

'10 Super Cobra Jet rated @ 500 hp.

6.00 lb. class = 3170 lbs
7.00 lb. class = 3670 lbs

I for one would not like having to find/remove 500 lbs. of weight to change classes. Is that the idea? To keep people in one class?

I'll say this much: that'd keep the Belvedere locked away for the rest of its life. I can't get to 3170 and I don't feel like turning it into a lead sled.

[Michael Beard]

I agree that that's a bit much to ask for shuffling weight. Well, then, a little common sense should be used. Fine, keep half-pound breaks for the very upper classes, then go to .75lb breaks a little further down, and then to full pound breaks. I have to move ridiculous amounts of weight to move classes in FWD, and sticks n' autos are combined. Y'all can do it, too, within reason. If classes have indexes that are the same or within .05, then they can be combined. I made a spreadsheet before that showed how you could readily combine a *significant* number of classes. Less classes = more heads-up runs or "class racing".

I find it odd/comical/sad that I'm the *bracket racer* here, and so many of the hard core "class racers" run screaming to protect their own interests when you actually try to do something to bring the class racing back to class racing. Too many of them like to just pretend they are performance-based racers. Pretty darn rare for me to do a 1000' dump in a bracket race!

[Billy Nees]

[QUOTE=Michael Beard;

I find it odd/comical/sad that I'm the *bracket racer* here, and so many of the hard core "class racers" run screaming to protect their own interests when you actually try to do something to bring the class racing back to class racing. Too many of them like to just pretend they are performance-based racers.

That pretty well sums it up for me! Everything is done "In MY best interest". There are very few racers left that will consider what is good for the Eliminator or for that matter what is "Right or wrong" and "Legal or not" and why should they! The people running the sanctioning body are either ignorant of what is going on or just don't care. Welcome to the 21st. century! And stop wondering how Nobama managed to get elected!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

That pretty well sums it up for me! Everything is done "In MY best interest". There are very few racers left that will consider what is good for the Eliminator or for that matter what is "Right or wrong" and "Legal or not" and why should they! The people running the sanctioning body are either ignorant of what is going on or just don't care. Welcome to the 21st. century! And stop wondering how Nobama managed to get elected!

The reason the sanctioning body gets away with crap is found in the 2nd and 3rd sentences. Racers refuse to get together for the bettering of the class, they're too busy furthering their own cause.

However, that 4th sentence, the idea that the sanctioning body is either ignorant or oblivious, is false. They know exactly what they're doing and what is going on. They can get away with it because of the 2nd and 3rd sentences.

We wouldn't benefit from money and points for class, we're not fast enough. We wouldn't benefit from money and points for qualifying, we're not fast enough. We wouldn't benefit from points for records for the same reason. And one pound weight breaks would just lock us into one class, we couldn't move to avoid the new super cars.

So we have nothing to gain from what I suggested, especially not in the short term. We might or might not be hurt by what I suggested, depending on the circumstances. But I see where moving the class back towards the performance based side of things would be good for the health of the class. And in the end, what is good for the class is good for the people racing in the class.

[Billy Nees]

[QUOTE=Alan Roehrich; And in the end, what is good for the class is good for the people racing in the class.

Thank you! Now how do we get racers to all "agree on anything"! Alan, any racer that knows me has heard this quote,"Racers as a whole are so damned stupid that it's amazing we manage to feed ourselves".
I hope that at some point in time we all wake the hell up!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Thank you! Now how do we get racers to all "agree on anything"! Alan, any racer that knows me has heard this quote,"Racers as a whole are so damned stupid that it's amazing we manage to feed ourselves".
I hope that at some point in time we all wake the hell up!

Billy I agree with that quote of yours. Kevin's favorite movie, Men in Black, has a great line , "Humans are smart, but people are dumb panicky animals".

And no, I don't know how to get even the majority, never mind everyone, to agree on anything that resembles a solution. But I can tell you that it is almost certain that the sanctioning bodies will never do it for us. It will come from the racers, or it will never come at all.

I think the most likely possibility, and even that will not likely come to pass, could begin with some sort of regional class racers' association, holding races like Alex's race from a few years ago, something like Terry was trying to do. A regional group, in a somewhat centrally located region that would allow them to hold races throughout the region, might draw out of the region racers that are close to the outer edges, allowing it to expand.

Example: Say we take the upper part of Division 2, the eastern part of Division 4, and the southern parts of Divisions 1 and 3. Form an association, and put on a series of races, say 2 day races, with a format similar to the SportsNational Open at Bowling Green, where you get one time trial and then you go straight into class, and then run the final eliminations the next day. Maybe have some sort of show Saturday night to help the track keep fans in the stands and make a little more money. Find some guys willing to tech. Hold 5-6 races in a year, say at Bowling Green, Bristol, No Problem, South Georgia or Reynolds, and you pick 2-3 Division 1 and 3 tracks. Then you could draw from the surrounding states.

That's just an idea and an example. You tell me. Maybe some one should ask the guys like Pete and Kyle, or Mike, or the other guys who put on the big bracket races why they don't do the same with say Stock and Super Stock. And maybe see what it would take to change their mind. Of course, Alex has already put on one big race. But no one has done it since.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

Can someone enlighten me as to the advantages of a 1 lb. weight break? I fail to see how that fixes anything. Sounds DECENT for a lower horsepower car that might have to add 200-300 lbs to move between classes, but what about the high horsepower stuff?

Example:

'10 Super Cobra Jet rated @ 500 hp.

6.00 lb. class = 3170 lbs
7.00 lb. class = 3670 lbs

I for one would not like having to find/remove 500 lbs. of weight to change classes. Is that the idea? To keep people in one class?

I'll say this much: that'd keep the Belvedere locked away for the rest of its life. I can't get to 3170 and I don't feel like turning it into a lead sled.

Well, the idea behind one pound weight breaks is to consolidate classes. Yes, one pound weight breaks would tend to keep you from moving between classes. That is not the reason for it at all, it is just one of the side effects.

What would you have done two years or so ago before we campaigned for and got AA? The break for A was 8.0 back then, that was as light as you could get. What Belvedere are you going to race in Stock that is rated at 500HP?

[Bench Racer]

The mustang and hemi still did not get hurt much in my opinion ( I don't have a car so I have no axe to grind) Them cars are rockets and I would hate to be in class with them. I understand that NHRA needs corporate involvement in racing so after the new wears off the "new" rockets maybe the playing field will be leveled. Thank goodness the manufacturers are willing to pump some $$'s and interest in the sport! Hopefully The next election will purge the crap out of the political machine and the country can get back on the right track! Don Jackson

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Well, the idea behind one pound weight breaks is to consolidate classes. Yes, one pound weight breaks would tend to keep you from moving between classes. That is not the reason for it at all, it is just one of the side effects.

What would you have done two years or so ago before we campaigned for and got AA? The break for A was 8.0 back then, that was as light as you could get. What Belvedere are you going to race in Stock that is rated at 500HP?

Alan, Jared raced his grandfather's (Harry Holton) '65 Hemi Belvedere in SS/BA. I think he was referring to 1 pound weight breaks in upper Super Stock classes would make for a lot of weight to be added/removed to move to a different class. I remember some complaints when NHRA had FI Stock, and an LS-1 had to move 336 pounds up or down (rated 336 at the time) to move up to A/FI or down to C/FI, so a car would have needed 672 total moveable weight to change within the legal classes. In S/S, it would be worse, as all the cars in SS/A to SS/E are rated 400-500 HP.

Personally, I am 100% in favor of changing the rule to "a car can run ONLY in it's natural class". You can remove weight to make the top of your natural class, but nothing else. No moving up or down at all. That would eliminate some of the games and the "hiding".

-EDIT- The exception would be for a car that can not make a class, per the rules. Example, V-8 cars can not compete in V/SA, so a natural V car would have to run U, or the rule would have to ammended. Same with a 6 cylinder can not compete in W/SA, so it would have to move to V.