64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis

[mopar68]

"Maybe it was a change as they were built ??? but the pictures I have show 4 hood pins and complete removal of the hood in the pits and placed on the roof of the cars."

IMO, this does not sound like a factory setup. At least not for Super/Stock. Maybe A/FX? If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that it was a racer modification.

Personally, I've never seen any pix of those cars with a quick release (i.e. hood pins) system installed allowing quick hood removal.

Here are some early pix of those cars at Beeline Dragway in 1964:

http://arizonaracinghistory.com/64winternats.htm

Granted, most if not all of those cars pictured there are Max Wedge cars since (I'm pretty sure) the 426 HEMI was released in April of 1964.*

M68

* Or was it February?

** Yeah, it was February 1964 because Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 with a Hemi under the hood as well as the 2nd and 3rd place finishers.

[mopar68]

Hmmm....Lindamood's '64 car has the hood pins at the rear of hood.

http://www.quartermilestones.com/pho...n2/RMA6401.jpg

I don't believe Roger's car would've ever passed tech if it were not a factory modification.

Now I don't know what to think.

M68

[mopar68]

"Sometime after a build date of February 17, 1964, Manessis took delivery of his Dodge 330 and began to campaign the aluminum-paneled sedan. With its hinged aluminum hood; dual hump aluminum hoodscoop; aluminum fenders; aluminum bumper brackets; and acid-dipped components including the front bumper, doors and decklid, all seemed well."

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...330/index.html

1964 Hemi Plymouth Savoy - The First Satellite Super Commando

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...ndo/index.html

M68

[mopar68]

1964 Dodge Hemi - High Flyer - The Honker Flies Again

"The '64 Hemi cars have become some of the most important race machinery in today's collector market, and for good reason. They represented the furthest frontier of production-line, stock-bodied, drag-car development at the time. The Ford Thunderbolts released months earlier had made use of fiberglass body pieces, but Chrysler decided to stick with aluminum that had characterized the Max Wedge cars that had preceded the Hemi, and bolted together the requisite 50 examples for S/S legality. Numbered code 7 on the buildsheet, it included aluminum doors, front fenders, hood with undimpled scoop (the Max Wedge versions had a dip in the middle of the forward opening) held on with a large wing nut on all four corners, radiator support, and other small pieces; a few like this one even got aluminum front bumpers."

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...dge/index.html



I stand corrected.

M68

[James L Miller]

First, I'd like to know who at IHRA will approve fiberglass replacements for aluminum body panels? I e-mailed IHRA about five years ago and was told it was NOT legal. I wish it was legal, fiberglass nose is what $2k? Aluminum nose, $20k? I'd be happy with just a glass hood and scoop and run steel fenders. They could make the fiberglass need to weigh as much as the aluminum to make things fair.

The steel and aluminum front end rules have changed back and forth over the last several years. For a while, the only legal 1964 Belvedere HT Hemi car was with aluminum (Steel was legal, but had to run at the aluminum weight). Then they added the single 4bbl (Circle Track) combo that had the aluminum front end (steel was legal and had to run at the aluminum weight). Somewhere along here they changed the 250 maximum added weight, so it allowed the crossram Race Hemi to run in something other than SS/B(A). Then NHRA came up the stupid idea that all Race Hemi cars had to have the aluminum to be LEGAL. Steel front end parts were ILLEGAL. Fortunately someone at Chrysler worked with NHRA to allow steel to be LEGAL again.

The current Classification Guide lists the following notes for MW and Hemi cars in 1964-5:

426 Race Hemi cars with 2 carbs were available from factory with either steel or aluminum components (fenders, hood & scoop) depending on plant supply at the time motor installed in car.

426 Race Hemi cars with 1 carb were available from factory with steel components (fenders & hood) with the addition of steel or aluminum hood scoop..

426 Wedge Al component car required to have aluminum hood with hood scoop, & both aluminum front fenders to be classified as aluminum component car

I doubt that Chrysler originally built the cars with all thread and wing nuts to hold the hoods on, but I've seen the photos of cars with them from "back-in-the-day".

[X-TECH MAN]

[QUOTE=mr340;145564]First, I'd like to know who at IHRA will approve fiberglass replacements for aluminum body panels? I e-mailed IHRA about five years ago and was told it was NOT legal. I wish it was legal, fiberglass nose is what $2k? Aluminum nose, $20k? I'd be happy with just a glass hood and scoop and run steel fenders. They could make the fiberglass need to weigh as much as the aluminum to make things fair.

I personally was involved along with Jack McCormick in getting the glass front components approved. It was about 8 or 9 years ago and Mike Baker (IHRA National Tech Director) Ok'ed it. It was a quality glass front end and not like a typical bracket car fiberglass. You need to talk directly to Mike Baker as far as I know the ruling still stands. I dont remember the companys name (I can find out) but I know of one Max Wedge car that uses this glass in IHRA stock elim.

To many photos and text documenting the 4 hold down pins with wing nuts on the 1964 cars to doubt these cars being assembly line produced that way. A lot can happen in 45+ years.

[X-TECH MAN]

OK....I guess it was to long ago for anyone to have the correct facts and who really cares ....lol. MoPar built some outstanding cars from 1962 to 1971 and that period of time "Win on Sunday/Sell on Monday" will never happen again.

[John Lang]

I was wondering if I could us my 65 SS/CA, car and pull the HEMI, and run SS-GT with an older engine combo , such as a 2- 4bbl 383 , as in a 62 Ply or Dodge, what class would it fit, and would i have to eliminate the scoop ? Anybody know ? I don't know the HP of the 383, as in factor ! Let me know ! Or would that the same.as the car at Ennis ? Thanks.........John

[treessavoy]

In 1964 Holiday Chry/ply had a hemi savoy sitting in the show room, three of my friends bought it to race at Atco and other strips in Jersey........It did NOT come with hood pins. It was the same as the Max Wedge except for the different scoop.

Many racers put pins in them but the 1964 Dodge Hemi car that I bought also did not have hood pins only light weight springs.

JimR

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by James L Miller

First, I'd like to know who at IHRA will approve fiberglass replacements for aluminum body panels? I e-mailed IHRA about five years ago and was told it was NOT legal. I wish it was legal, fiberglass nose is what $2k? Aluminum nose, $20k? I'd be happy with just a glass hood and scoop and run steel fenders. They could make the fiberglass need to weigh as much as the aluminum to make things fair.

The steel and aluminum front end rules have changed back and forth over the last several years. For a while, the only legal 1964 Belvedere HT Hemi car was with aluminum (Steel was legal, but had to run at the aluminum weight). Then they added the single 4bbl (Circle Track) combo that had the aluminum front end (steel was legal and had to run at the aluminum weight). Somewhere along here they changed the 250 maximum added weight, so it allowed the crossram Race Hemi to run in something other than SS/B(A). Then NHRA came up the stupid idea that all Race Hemi cars had to have the aluminum to be LEGAL. Steel front end parts were ILLEGAL. Fortunately someone at Chrysler worked with NHRA to allow steel to be LEGAL again.

The current Classification Guide lists the following notes for MW and Hemi cars in 1964-5:

426 Race Hemi cars with 2 carbs were available from factory with either steel or aluminum components (fenders, hood & scoop) depending on plant supply at the time motor installed in car.

426 Race Hemi cars with 1 carb were available from factory with steel components (fenders & hood) with the addition of steel or aluminum hood scoop..

426 Wedge Al component car required to have aluminum hood with hood scoop, & both aluminum front fenders to be classified as aluminum component car

I doubt that Chrysler originally built the cars with all thread and wing nuts to hold the hoods on, but I've seen the photos of cars with them from "back-in-the-day".

I know this is an old thread but I’m trying to find out whatcars ran back circa 1969-71 in W/P=7.00 class (69=SS/D and 70-71 SS/C).


I’ve concluded they were Hemi cars (not Max Wedge) but theHemi-8v cars are up in the W/P=6.00 class (1964 cars) or W/P=6.50 class (1965),UNLESS:


1. They ran the Hemi-8v factoredat 500hp but at steel or heavy weight, or


2. They ran the aluminum(64) or A990 (65) weight, but with the NASCAR style Hemi-4v factored at 470hpor so.


Jim Miller’s text implies that first none of the above wasallowed, which makes sense, as these W/P=7.00 Hemi cars don’t appear until the1969-70-71 race years near as I can tell. Then Jim says first the cars ran atthe lighter weight (aluminum in 1964 cars, A990 in 1965 cars), but could runthe Hemi-4v.


The Hemi-8v in the heavier standard steel body cars would fitthe W/P=7.00 class but these combos are not listed in the current NHRA files.


So starting in 1969 race year, these cars win in the 7.00 classes, both 1964 and 1965 model cars.


Eg were these heavy Hemi-8v cars or light Hemi-4v cars?


McCandless, 1964 Dodge won SS/D=7.00 at 1969 Indy
Mancini 1964 Dodge, won SS/DA=7.00 1969 Indy
Wren, 1964 Plymouth, SS/DA=7.00 R/U at 1969 Indy
Costa, 1965 Plymouth, won SS/CA=7.00 at 1971 Indy

Mopar Steve on pg 2 says:
“Dave Wren's car was a steelnose Hardtop built for SS/DA in 1969. I spoke with Dave Koffel (who built thecar for Wren) in detail about this car. Wren broke in the finals and RonMancini was given the Runner Up finish at the Nationals that year with his SS/DAsteel nose Hemi '64 Dodge.

For what it's worth, I own the Mancini Dodge. I have researched the 4 steelnose Hemi's that were built for SS/CA and SS/DA in 1969 and can confirm theabove as fact.”

That would imply that theSS/DA=7.00 and SS/CA=7.00 cars (Mancini and Wren at least) were steel cars and therefore Hemi-8v and not Hemi-4v cars.

So when these cars ran back in 1969-71, were these cars “heavy” 8v Hemi or “light” 4v Hemi?


Did the rules get changed in 1969 so they could run?
Because the 1964-65 Hemi cars in the W/P=7.00 classes don't seem to appear until 1969.