We need a new "instant" trigger!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

You all should re-read Jack McCarthy's post and think about it. NOTHING automatic will ever work.

Terry, statistical process controls, such as they use in industry, properly applied, with good data, can work.

As far as getting people involved, you have several issues there. The biggest of which is who at Glendora do you think is capable of properly managing, and can be trusted with the power of, the system? Further, who do you think Glendora will allow you to choose?

[Michael Beard]

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Terry, statistical process controls, such as they use in industry, properly applied, with good data, can work.

As far as getting people involved, you have several issues there. The biggest of which is who at Glendora do you think is capable of properly managing, and can be trusted with the power of, the system? Further, who do you think Glendora will allow you to choose?

To my knowledge there is no one in Glendora who could be trusted or has the knowledge or desire to oversee Stock and S/S nor is there anyone Glendora would allow to do it for them. Most of the names listed have "Issues" with NHRA already.....LOL. The board would require at a minimum 3 people who no longer race themselves and have a lot of background in Stock and S/S. Names such as Westly, Bruce, ex tech guys like that and older racers who dont have agendas and egos such as someone like Woodro, Keener, etc. But then again why would they want to be involved in a thankless job like that? Its not easy to keep track of all of that stuff and the Associations dont want to pay to have it done.

[Larry Munk]

Michael, I'll take 2 please

[Billy Nees]

Alan, I'll lose my attitude about the time I'm taking that long, dirt nap and about the time that you stop whining about your 425/427 being beat to death. While I'm trying to honestly come up with a workable solution to what I consider to be a major problem with my sport I am once again proving a point about the majority of Sportsman racers that NHRA has always and will always take advantage of. We won't agree on ANYTHING that will be of any benefit to us at all! The bottom line is the simple fact that we are all willing to push our own selfish agendas to the point that the only things that get done are the things that get done TO us by the NHRA whether we like it or not. Now, I will ask again, focus boys, let's fix just ONE problem and then we can go on to the NEXT problem OK? No B.S., no impossible dreams, can we manage to hammer out a sensible, simple solution to the instant HP trigger that will bring underrated combos in line in a reasonable amount of time? No "the AHFS sucks", no "the business plan has changed", no "back in the old days", no "my car used to be a hitter and now it sucks", no "work harder a**hole", just a good, hopefully productive attempt at a solution that, if enough of us can agree on will be adopted by the NHRA. If we can agree to fix this then just maybe we can move on and, together, fix something else. At that point in time then we WILL be back in control of our sport.

[Billy Nees]

Damn! I'm starting to sound like a politician!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Alan, I'll lose my attitude about the time I'm taking that long, dirt nap and about the time that you stop whining about your 425/427 being beat to death. While I'm trying to honestly come up with a workable solution to what I consider to be a major problem with my sport I am once again proving a point about the majority of Sportsman racers that NHRA has always and will always take advantage of. We won't agree on ANYTHING that will be of any benefit to us at all! The bottom line is the simple fact that we are all willing to push our own selfish agendas to the point that the only things that get done are the things that get done TO us by the NHRA whether we like it or not. Now, I will ask again, focus boys, let's fix just ONE problem and then we can go on to the NEXT problem OK? No B.S., no impossible dreams, can we manage to hammer out a sensible, simple solution to the instant HP trigger that will bring underrated combos in line in a reasonable amount of time? No "the AHFS sucks", no "the business plan has changed", no "back in the old days", no "my car used to be a hitter and now it sucks", no "work harder a**hole", just a good, hopefully productive attempt at a solution that, if enough of us can agree on will be adopted by the NHRA. If we can agree to fix this then just maybe we can move on and, together, fix something else. At that point in time then we WILL be back in control of our sport.

Billy, I don't whine, I state facts. I've never claimed the 427/425 was "beat to death". I did state that it could not compete against cars and combinations with bogus factors, that applies to any car, engine, or combination that is properly and honestly factored, not just the 427/425, or the 350/255 we just sold.

Solutions were suggested and agreed upon, and were submitted to NHRA. At least that is what I was told by multiple sources, both inside NHRA and outside NHRA. The only response anyone has seen from NHRA was to remove all control of the AHFS from the people who knew the cars and the class.

I have no selfish agenda. I love a challenge. I do not want anyone to get an unfair handicap, all I am looking for is for cars to be properly and honestly factored. There is absolutely no pride or pleasure to be had in beating anyone who is laboring under an unfair handicap.

But I agree, it is nearly impossible to get even a decent majority to unite and take a stand on a decision for the common good. I'd love to see it happen, but I'm a realist, and familiar with human nature.

Now, if what you propose as a solution is to lower the trigger for "instant HP", I can tell you that the math says that will penalize cars and combinations that are more popular a lot sooner than it will penalize cars that are running on bogus factors. Why? Because there is a MUCH greater chance that a more popular car will go under the lower trigger either on purpose or not. Simply because the more popular car is much more likely to have to run hard to win class, and far more likely to see a heads up race.

I cannot read your mind, nor do I want to, I can only read your post. From your post, it appears your goal is to see the cars farthest out of line brought back in to line ASAP (but I can only guess). Simply lowering the instant HP trigger will not do that. Because there are a lot fewer cars that are way out of line as compared to cars that are a little out of line.

Let me define way out of line as compared to a little out of line, at least as I see it. Way out of line is a car that can easily run 1.4 or more under the index, under good conditions (decent air at Gainesville, for example), while carrying at least 100# or more extra. A little out of line is a car that can run 1.2-1.3 under the index in really good conditions (good air at Atco, for example), carrying 50-100# extra.

Now can you see why I'm saying that just lowering the instant HP trigger does not work? Sure, you can try it, but do not be surprised when it brings about results that are not exactly satisfactory to you.

[Jim Cimarolli]

My main concern about all of our worries on the subject of what would be a good solution to this problem is who at NHRA would listen to us even if we did come up with a viable proposal?
They never paid heed to anything the sportsman advisory committee suggested, and they put the darn committee together.