Mustang MPH?

[John Quinn]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

RJ, there are two big differences here. 1. the Lt and LS cars were rated at a HP that was advertised and sold through showrooms. it wasn't falsely rated to give it an advantage 2. a Blower, end of story.


Its comparing apples to bananas

So the LS cars had more horsepower than advertised and the Mustang has more horsepower than advertised but it is OK for the LS but false rating when Ford does it. Is that what you are saying?

A blower is just another engine part becoming more common of showroom available cars. I don't like blowers either but that is where the factories are going.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by John Quinn

So the LS cars had more horsepower than advertised and the Mustang has more horsepower than advertised but it is OK for the LS but false rating when Ford does it. Is that what you are saying?

A blower is just another engine part becoming more common of showroom available cars. I don't like blowers either but that is where the factories are going.

the LT and LS cars appeared softer than they were because the factory rating was SAE NET hp, not SAE GROSS like the older cars. so when they get thrown in with the older cars it exacerbated the amount they were under rated. I don't know why GM chose to under rate them, but i am pretty sure it was marketing related (couldn't have one make more HP than a vette) not to pull one over on NHRA. The LS motors were also a brand new platform that took some time to figure out. I will not argue that it is a very potent combo in stock, and the rest of the racing world. Ford chose to build a motor based on an engine that already existed (GT500, ford GT), then derated the living crap out if it.

The LS motors proved to be more potent than they were rated, NHRA reacted by seperating the EFI cars so they could sort themselves out. Ford and NHRA are pissing down our leg and their telling us its raining with the CJ cars

YES, there is a big difference

[Dick Butler]

Kind of a shame to see this discussion.
Sportsman racing needs INK, it needs new cars, it needs factories to be involved so THEY can pressure NHRA to show the racing on TV or at events. Many people are chosing to chose THIS car as an example and you are really shooting sportsman racing in the foot. Many sound like they have never heard of the 400 chevy deal with the wrong ccs in heads, the wrong HP rating for years. No one heard of Bob Dennis cars before, How about the oval port BBC motors which hit GT/AA for some time before being adjusted. Some never noticed the new SBC SS motors with 400 heads and Q jets on a 350. How about the turbo fords used in stock?The new camaro, Pontiac stuff for YEARS with injection.The 305 Injected motor versus the carbs.
Grossi GT/AA record.
I hate it but suggest quietly race like the past till it corrects and USE the FORD input and interest to get to the BIG STAGE at NHRA events and hope Camaro works too.
If you chose NHRA you automatically chose this kind of issues. Not that it is right but that is their method of handling Sportsman racing.
Work WITH FORD and others to get a foot in the door and hope Ford can help change the methods.

[bill dedman]

>>>"Did NHRA not rate the LT1 and LS1 combo's soft initially?"

Absolutely!

Was that okay with most people?

NO!

Did it "work out?" (AHFS)

Yes.... pretty much, but it took literally YEARS to get it done. In the meantime, these undefactored G.M. cars were "making hay while the sun shone"....

And, how does this relate to the CJ deal? "Those who don't learn from experience are doomed to repeat it."

I think ~everybody~ learned something from the LS-1 experience.... and, THAT's why all the hoopla... Most folks probably don't want to see that scenario repeated.

[Bruce Noland]

The Firebirds may have been as much as 40 Horsepower soft. It took awhile before they became fast and nhra split them out until the ahfs had a chance to catch up with them. But the new CJ is a pony of a different color and should be fairly classified in a Factory class. The Firebirds were Factory Performance cars as opposed to the Purpose Built CJ for Racing only. The CJ is a purpose built race car that is 150 Horsepower soft. I know you Ford guys think we are picking on, crying, bitching and complaining about the CJs but you can bet you butts that most of us would be angry with any OEM trying to pull off a stunt like this.

Some of you guys say the Firebird was soft so why can't we do it. You say stuff like the ahfs will catch up to these cars but you know it will take years. You're not fooling any one. Some of the Ford guys want this car to run against 40 year old Camaros just to humiliate them. It's that simple. But at what price will Ford pay? What is so bad about a factory class for this car? What is so bad about it? None of you ever say why it's a bad idea. The CJs could romp all day long in a Factory class and really strut their stuff without having all the negative push-back. And the negative push-back will continue to come with each new event.

We saw this coming. The Ford guys had this whole project under wraps and still want to keep it that way. But we figured it out weeks before Pomona and put nhra on notice that we knew what they were up to. It's a bad deal for Stock. History will tell.

RJ,
You're right this whole discussion may be a moot point in 90 days.

[RJ Sledge]

Bruce

I agree with you on a lot of what you said, and as I said in my original post about the HP being soft I meant it. Was it a little soft or a lot soft.....it was a whole lot soft. I really feel for the guys running the same class as these cars, but the only way to make them show SOME of their hand is to make them run them out. I have heard that they are basically configured to run at less than 75% of applicable power available. I don't doubt it. I hope that the AHFS (if there is one anymore) will get it figured out ASAP. I would feel like I used do when having to run against an LS1 in F/SA. It was not a good experience

I do feel that the exposure for Stock and Sportsman Racing is a plus. Maybe when the GM and Mopar products come out they will level the playing field. Only time will tell

As you said it may be a moot point considering the situation with NHRA. I would hope that they will see the light and make adjustments where it will count. It seems that they have been awfully narrow minded in the last few years. Again only time will tell, we might be doing something different in another 12 to 18 months. As a my Pa used to tell me when I was a kid....You need to know the difference between being a pig and a hog......the difference is pigs get fat (not a real bad thing), but hogs get slaughtered (a real bad thing). NHRA has been a little too greedy if you ask me and are heading for the Slaughter House door!! I hope that they wise up before its too late.

R J Sledge

[Bruce Noland]

RJ,
Nice post.

[Bruce Noland]

Smitty,
You are forgetting something. It doesn't take 70 grand to get a 2008 clone to the races. Blown up 2005 Mustangs are going for about 4 grand, the CJ motor is going for 18 grand. So it looks like 40 grand, or less, will put a racer at the top of the heap. And some of these cars are being built as we debate this issue.