ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

[Tony Janes]

4 to 7% that have the ability to run 1.499 under the index. The number is less in super stock because the ability per class is less due to a lot of combos being closer the correct hp. Exception is the modified classes which only lose index and have more resources in the engine department

[Tony Janes]

Ron I am in favor of the current system

[Tony Janes]

Ed I am not going to blame the situation on The Sportsman Council. We do not know what has been brought to there attention. Now we know one of the issues. My suggestion would be for all people who are not in favor two tents in index for 1.499 under contact there Sportsman Council Rep and voice an opinion. The Rep is not going to contact anyone we must be proactive.

What situation do we have? It's two tenths, Geez! Do you people really think it flippin matters? My Lord, give us "RACERS" a break already. Why is it, that six months ago, everyone thought the SRAC was gospel? Now that something slipped by the "goalie" Everyone is up in arms. It's frickin TWO TENTHS, not five, which is what I would have wanted. Go race and try and figure out how to pay for $5 per gallon diesel.

[Rory McNeil]

Maybe I`m not very bright, but I really don`t see how lowering the indexs 2 tenths, 5 tenths etc would really accomplish anything , other than hurting the guys at the lower end of the food chain, and quite likely discouraging new blood from getting into Stock or S/S. By lowering the indexs, you are not really changing the qualifying positons, only the ET numbers at the end. If NHRA did lower the indexs, they would also likely lower the AHFS number as well, so what would the benefit be? Some of you guys are going on about these classes being performance based, yet many of you same people are also complaining about having to hit the brakes, or lift early to save your combination, that doesn`t sound very performance based to me. If you can run 1.40 under maybe, just maybe you may need a HP hit. My own Stocker has never been close to 1 second under (.830 under best for far), but I run it flat out every race, I`m not "holding" a few tenths in the bank, kinda seems that guys like me who run our cars hard all the time are more "performance based" than the sandbaggers! Personally, if NHRA did drop the indexs 2 /10s, iit wouldn`t really hurt me, but on the other hand, I can`t see it helping me either. I do believe that some of this sour grapes by the older racers is due to the fact that some of the more sucessful race winners in recent years have been newer guys that have come into Stock and S/S after years of bracket racing, and many of thier cars don`t run the quick ET`s, but with shrewd driving skills, they win a lot of races. To many of them, a consistant car that goes rounds and doesn`t break stuff makes more sense than shooting for a top ten qualifying position. Also, many of these "damn bracket racers" seem to be more concerned about winning a $10,000 + National event than picking up a few hundred (maybe) for winning class. Personally, I can see both sides of the coin, I have been a lowly bracket racer since the mid 70`s, & I have only been running my own fairly low buck Stocker for the past 5 years, even though I have been involved with various friends class cars for many years. As anybody can tell by taking a look in the pits at a NHRA Nat`l or divisional race, the amount of disposable income (or willingness to use the credit cards!) varies greatly amongst racers, some guys have 1/2 million dollar tow rigs, other use a 30 year old pickup and an old open trailer. Obviously a racer who can afford a 40 foot Monaco coach and a multi car stacker trailer is likely to also have the funds to purchase the newest and greatest pro built cars and powertrains, but I think that trying to push out the little guy will only reduce car counts, and I think NHRA could take that as a sign of dwindling interest in class racing, and does anybody really think that would be desirable?

[Billy Nees]

This thread has turned into the biggest bunch of crap that I've ever read in my life! The bottom line here is that until NHRA is willing to let the Tech Inspectors they have left that know what they're doing enforce the rules and get rid of the bogus stuff that is now running out there it doesn't matter where the indexes are, how bogus the factor is on the "other guys" combo is or how hard you work at your combo or at spending Daddys money! It seems to me that the people bitching the most aren't the guys that are at the track every weekend flogging their stuff. It sure isn't the guys that were smart enough to build the "soft" combos as they've got nothing to bitch about. It isn't the "Professional Sportsman" racers, they're too busy just getting they're job done. Seems to me that the people bitching the most are the ones that are willing to spend the most money to get the best bogus parts that they can get an Engine Builder to build them(I don't blame the Engine Builder, they've gotta eat too) and still can't run with the smart guys and the workers. The indexes are only numbers that determine the price of entry into this "Boys Club". The AHFS triggers are only numbers that determine who's pushing the rules beyond the boundarys of good taste (bit a hole in my tongue typing that). I really take offense to the "idiots" on this thread telling racers that aren't willing or able to spend themselves into debt that maybe they should find a new place to race. From my experience, these "idiots" throw a bunch of money around for a few years then get bored and leave the sport having left it a more difficult place to compete in! I've met a bunch of GREAT people in this sport and a few A**HOLES but it seems to me that right now the A**HOLES are trying to take over the sport, MY sport.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

This thread has turned into the biggest bunch of crap that I've ever read in my life! The bottom line here is that until NHRA is willing to let the Tech Inspectors they have left that know what they're doing enforce the rules and get rid of the bogus stuff that is now running out there it doesn't matter where the indexes are, how bogus the factor is on the "other guys" combo is or how hard you work at your combo or at spending Daddys money! It seems to me that the people bitching the most aren't the guys that are at the track every weekend flogging their stuff. It sure isn't the guys that were smart enough to build the "soft" combos as they've got nothing to bitch about. It isn't the "Professional Sportsman" racers, they're too busy just getting they're job done. Seems to me that the people bitching the most are the ones that are willing to spend the most money to get the best bogus parts that they can get an Engine Builder to build them(I don't blame the Engine Builder, they've gotta eat too) and still can't run with the smart guys and the workers. The indexes are only numbers that determine the price of entry into this "Boys Club". The AHFS triggers are only numbers that determine who's pushing the rules beyond the boundarys of good taste (bit a hole in my tongue typing that). I really take offense to the "idiots" on this thread telling racers that aren't willing or able to spend themselves into debt that maybe they should find a new place to race. From my experience, these "idiots" throw a bunch of money around for a few years then get bored and leave the sport having left it a more difficult place to compete in! I've met a bunch of GREAT people in this sport and a few A**HOLES but it seems to me that right now the A**HOLES are trying to take over the sport, MY sport.

Great summary of the 10 pages of this post... X2

[Bruce Noland]

Billy,
Got your broad brush out today? Not all of the fast racers are doing the things you are "bitching" about. nhra has accepted a ton of changes and you can ignore that if you want but that is what we are dealing with here. Lowering the indexes .20 still doesn't offset the tons of HP increases that have been LEGALLY gained over the last ten years or so.

Tony,
I have no problem with you or any one else who wants to race a slow car. That's your business, but both of us know that you have the means to go faster if you want to. You come out here all the time and bang away on the racers who want to go fast; is that fair?

You guys have to remember that the ahfs is a double edge sword. You seem to be interested only in the penalty edge of the sword. Look at the other edge. The one that allows for HP decreases if you are running a bad combination.

A high dollar motor can certainly make a car go faster but there is a ton of performance to be found in these cars by just plain working your *** off on them like many of the faster racers do. You put a high dollar motor in some of these slow cars and they still won't run -.600 under the index because the racer isn't working on the rest of the car.

I really think you guys have to get with the competitive spirit of the sport and stop complaining because you want other racers brought down to your level of performance through the ahfs. Even nhra isn't going to by that old story.

[Billy Nees]

Bruce, It seems to me that you're the one "painting with a broad brush". What does the AHFS have to do with the where the indexes are set? Like I've said in my previous post, one sets the entry level and the other sets the upper limit. What NHRA "accepts"(I'm glad you didn't say approved) only has to do with the upper limit. I also don't see what this has to do with what Tony or me or anybody else has "the means" to do! I've got enough equity built up in all of this farmland to build and bury any combo that I want to! I choose to build the cars that I do for the challenge that they give me not because they can go 1.50 under! It seems to me that a few certain people are trying to change this from a "Boys Club" into an "Exclusive Gentlemens Club". Don't group all of the fast racers together! I said the ones that work and the ones that"buy" their horsepower. As far as "working your *** off", I'll put MY work ethic up against yours or anybody elses any day of the week.

[Michael Beard]

Billy - Pops needs to take you junkyardin'.

Lowering the indexes .20 still doesn't offset the tons of HP increases that have been LEGALLY gained over the last ten years or so.

Outstanding observation... with the caveat that if you're going to allow new parts and other things, then factor the HP accordingly.

Again, if they would just use their years of data they have compiled and refactor *everybody* once now, y'all could probably race wide open for a number of years.

$.02,