index lowering

[FLEMING]

it will just mean i am .30 under instead of .50 lol

[Cglrcng]

I will add another fact (as some could say or be thinking I am not working hard enough), last winter I worked my heart and fingers to the bone and dieted the car down for the first time ever to the natural class that the guide says I fit (DF/S), and I had just run -.797 under at Pomona (the only place it has ever run those kind of numbers (both in 1995 and 2023). And at the very bottom (weight wise, bare minimum wt. allowed), of the DF/S class, it missed running the index by a number of tenths in testing, so I piled the weight back on properly and covered up the DF/S Class w/ black tape until I find a way to make it legally a lot faster. So, I am working hard and spending more to apply available off the shelf or hand created tech that the rule book now allows that was not always available to my combo. It is like the car, a slow and methodical process.

And no Billy...I think we both love racing those 8-9 second cars w/ much slower rides. Next to sex and watching my children and grand children grow into productive adults, it is the most fun I have ever had in my 67 yrs. of life!

An A/SA class car has a 4lb./hp Weight to HP factor ...an EF/S Class car it is 25.00lb. (Or 21.00/HP difference). Factoring 6HP/99Hp car=150 lbs. Total extra. 16lbs vs 150lbs. Cry me a river fast guys...take the hp hit and still run a second plus under and leave me and mine alone as you can still drive around and away from me on the top end if you have room left by me at the tree...I want you to go as fast as you possibly can go in the other lane, just not at my expense of not making the index without (either one of us potentially), cheating or risking being judged illegal or out of spec. to the rulebook.

The 2 races that make me get up on the wheel the most at the line are heads up in class, and the fastest and slowest in the category (that day), races matchups.

Those are the most fun I can have w/ my clothes on at my age! Win or lose I am having a blast doing so. Life will be gone in the blink of an eye, do not ruin it.

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by FLEMING

it will just mean i am .30 under instead of .50 lol

Correct Fleming and I just ran .440 under at Vegas (picking up 2/10ths on Q3 due to the head wind of the prior day went away), in the best air I have ever raced in
there, and where I race the most, and due to the altitude I already get a 3/10ths altitude correction bump up from 17.45 to 17.75.

So, the math on mine just is not there to take away 2 or 3 10th's and still make the sheet at least under in the usual really junk corrected D.A. found there and that at 115 miles from my house, is my home track. (My usual there is -.126--.226 under there).

I am not going to even pay the entry fees (not to mention all the other costs incurred), if priced out wondering if I can even run the index if the wind changes direction or temp rises a few degrees. Fugettaboutit.

[j gardiner]

Go ahead and drop the indexes .2, but if you go 1.00 under it is an automatic trip to the barn for teardown. Will those fast guys still want to go that fast if they have to show why they go so fast.

[TOSTO RACING]

As far as indexes go does it really matter what they do we will all still go lol.

[Sam Capizzi Jr]

Common sense says that the problem is at the top of the sheet with the fast guys wanting to go faster without penalty which is totally understandable and should be encouraged.. fair point. So why screw over the guys at the bottom of the sheet to fix a top of the sheet problem?

If the top of the sheet wants .2 or .3 tenths then move the trigger at the TOP of the sheet.. make 1.20 a review trigger. 1.50 permanent with tear down.

Leave the little guy alone.

Lowering indexes=
diminished car counts which hurts the tracks,
hurts the car count at local organizations that run off the indexes
hurts the wallet of those dumb enough to hang around.

[Mike Gray]

I’m not sure how this is done, would it be 2 tenths across the board? I’m trying to follow Gary’s opposition. Is it that 2 tenths to a 800hp car is a lot less than 2 tenths to his 100hp ride or would it be adjusted down per class? I can see problems any way you look at it. Maybe change the trigger from single car runs to the average for the combo. That way no one person is responsible for the hit but the entire group is. (Could cause a lot of movement to combo’s with low averages )

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mike Gray

I?m not sure how this is done, would it be 2 tenths across the board? I?m trying to follow Gary?s opposition. Is it that 2 tenths to a 1000hp Copo is a lot less than 2 tenths to his 100hp ride or would it be adjusted down per class?
Why not leave it alone give the AHFS a chance to work by incentivizing qualifying positions. Maybe a few extra points distributed to the top 5 or 10 spots.

2tenths to a 1000 HP COPO is nothing. 2 tenths to Gary's car might as well be 2 minutes.
Look at it from a percentage point of view, need to make up 2 tenths in a 1000 HP COPO? Make 10-20 more HP. 10-20 more HP to a 1000 HP combo? A drop in the bucket. Need to make up 2 tenths in a 100 HP Neon? Make 10 more HP.
10 HP to 1000 HP? One percent. 10 HP to 100 HP? Ten percent. What's it going to take for Gary to make 10 percent more HP?
The powers that be never think of E.T.s or HP in this respect. That's why the majority of the cars in the fields are fast cars.

[Mike Gray]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

2tenths to a 1000 HP COPO is nothing. 2 tenths to Gary's car might as well be 2 minutes.
Look at it from a percentage point of view, need to make up 2 tenths in a 1000 HP COPO? Make 10-20 more HP. 10-20 more HP to a 1000 HP combo? A drop in the bucket. Need to make up 2 tenths in a 100 HP Neon? Make 10 more HP.
10 HP to 1000 HP? One percent. 10 HP to 100 HP? Ten percent. What's it going to take for Gary to make 10 percent more HP?
The powers that be never think of E.T.s or HP in this respect. That's why the majority of the cars in the fields are fast cars.

I see more problems locking out the slower guys from earning the same amount of points from round wins. (Changed my comments above)

[Cglrcng]

Now, since the suggested change(s), is not based on individual combo real life performance data throughout the category down to each class and each indiv. combo, let me throw out an equally crazy idea...institute the changes while allowing any class and any combo the choice to dial (using the trusty shoe polish bottle), above their index an equal
amount in all cases except an in class heads up race, and I will withdraw all my complaints already stated.

Sounds crazy right? Just as crazy as the original proposal to me. But, I am all for it. I cannot dial up...but you are attempting to magically dial me down and possibly out of competition currently.

I have said everything there is to say here (to plead my particular case as a minority class member and outlier I fully realize), and still no poll I have seen or
been notified of yet to be found to
participate in officially by NHRA.

Worse yet, nobody here has yet named a single name on who to contact to be heard officially before any vote is conducted concerning the suggested changes. Minority vs. Minority 2024, how will it all shake out for 2025?

Leave it alone or change it big for 1 or both, everyone will be affected if it is 1 blanket change for all in both good and bad ways. The AHFS was supposed to be a cure all. It was evidently just a bill of goods sold that promised all & settled nothing due to fear of a tiny bit of weight added to one end of the spectrum and a lot to the other.

We live in a data driven and ruled society and age, let the real life past performance data drive the changes and not the whim or votes of human lobbyists drive the proposed and instituted changes, in a real life supposed "performance based racing category!" Then, review every class and every combo (one-by-one as requested and when properly requested in accordance with existing rules, instead of waving hands and saying "you do not qualify, it is a moot subject" to get the data corrected. And if it is corrected, and it is real life past performance based, then take the time to explain why, who, and when. And look at any and all evidence presented and available before making a final decision.

I will gladly pay any required costs (T & M basis), incurred to do that at least once and if it gets it right once and for all...as it would be a lot cheaper than the current alternative.

BTW fast guys...I am the slowest guy in the slowest class in the category, but there is also at least 3 in my class that have raced at Indy and shown that they can run equally as fast (index vs index), (2 K brothers and a very fast yellow slow car can all scream at Indy and have shown so recently), as almost any of the big dogs can when no AHFS is on, and when your indexes are dropped, they get
to show their stuff more often and regularly too, unintended results may just rear their heads when they do, if you give them the same index drop. And that is who I am thrashing to catch up to is others within my own class that are so far ahead already (as mis-matched as we are in our combos), that I don't know if I have enough years left on the planet to even catch up to if I work 24/7/365
on my stuff and spend a fortune to catch.