Stock Suggestion # 1

[TILBURG]

Boys i'm not sure that would answer any of your prays for a long time. The sad truth of the matter is that there's to many people in the back pockets of each others. There are guys out there building STOCKER motors that 2 years ago wouldn't have even talked to you about one let alone build you one. Its a different breed out there most of them have not been in the stock/ super stock pits trying to turn a nickel into a dime. If you have a CNC head and a plastic manifold it should by all rights make about the same power in 10yrs from now. Correct? But with some of the top head porters know doing heads how many revisions to that CNC port do you think there will be? And they are not going to want to do just one set. I guess it will make finding a virgin set of 300hp heads seem cheap. LOL Not sure what the correct answer is. I guess just be happy with what ever you have and do the best you can. It's going to be a long road how ever you look at it. When 4 or 5 of the top 10 are older cars guess they can't say were not trying. LOL

[cutta]

So assuming refactioring isn't going to happen since its been proposed many times to no avail and that the FX class suggestion isn't likely to happen, what is another realistic option besides what Jeff suggested?

It seems to me NHRA is pretty much opposed to re-factoring the cars and all of the stock guys and girls(the majority) want all cars factored properly. Those seem to be the extremes of position on the issue.

Given these stances and that we are to a certain extent talking politics, what is the/a middle ground option assuming re-factoring is an extreme for the NHRA?

[Larry Hill]

Put all the new (2008-up) in their own eliminator race! No AHFS! Let the manufacturers put up their purse (say $5000 each) So let them all run for the $15,000. If them want to run in Stock Eliminator, they use their times and are subjected to the AHFS! Problem solved!!

Patsy

[sammy pizzolato]

The Easy Way Would Be To Make A B C D Stick And Auto If You Are A Old Car Change AN/S BN/S CN/S DN/S Stick And Auto. From D On up Are The Main Classes Affected.And Leave The New Car's Alone. And Let Them Beat Up Each Other. Just Saying This Would Be An Easier Fix. Think About It!!!!!

[Jeff Teuton]

Let's not get too far astray on this. Us getting away from a legimate idea is what keeps us from getting anything. You probably can't have it both ways. Speed up one and slow down the other more than likely won't happen. As far as a couple of posts about 'in a couple of years it will be back where we started', welcome aboard the AHFS wagon. Older cars going down about two classes gets most of the newer stuff out of the pre 2008 cars hair. I am not proposing tech changes, allowables, and anything else that does not exist now. And remember, many of these issues pertain to Indy only. There are 23 or so other races. I have other tingling ideas, and that is why this is #1. And I also said this is based on the fact that AHFS or very similar is with us for a while.

[442OLDS]

Lower the indexes three more tenths.That was such a great idea the first time,might as well do it again.

[Ed Wright]

Makes much more sense to just add hp to the seriously under-rated newer cars. Move them up where they should have been classified to begin with. Nobody that knows anything about engines could look at the engine specs, and think they are anywhere close to correct.

Besides the published specs, the 360" MOPAR Super Stock intake ports outflow the 350" GM LT1 intake ports by 40 cfm! Same cylinder head shop, same flow bench. No telling how far they are ahead of other, older engines with similar hp ratings. That is more than the LT1 ports gained from SS porting! How can we keep up for that?

[Alan Roehrich]

Let's really stir this up, and solve several issues at once.

1. Non production street cars (AKA new factory race cars) into their own classes, Factory Stock, designated FS, (or Factory Experimental, AKA FX). This gives the factories a place they can really show their prowess. Classes starting with 5.0 pounds per factored HP, in one pound increments, going up to 10.0 pounds per factored HP, stick and automatic. FS/A thru FS/F, and FS/AA thru FS/FA. Start with the AAA/S index for FS/A, and add 2 tenths to the index for every one pound weight break. AHFS applies.

2. Factory Stock Shootout at every national event, on Saturday, the factories could put up a reasonable purse. Maybe a $5K purse, that's $115K total for a 23 race season, split 3 ways, it costs them less than $40K each for a year of having their cars go head to head in front of the fans 23 Saturdays a year.

3. Production street cars (AKA the old cars) get one pound weight breaks up to 12.0 pounds per factored HP, starting at 7.0 pounds per factored HP, with the 7.0 class being A, and an index of 10.70, for stick and automatic. The 8.0 class, formerly A, becomes B, with an 11 second index, and so on. The first 1/2 pound weight break is 12.5 pounds per factored HP. AHFS applies.

4. Class contested at all national events, and national opens, starting with the second round of qualifying on Friday. Possible sponsorship by some current supporters of class racing, such as Comp Cams and ATI Performance Products, among others.

5. Class pays 10 points per contested round win (includes byes). For national events and LODRS races.

6. Qualifying pays 10 points per position, for positions 1 thru 10. For national events and LODRS races.

7. Qualifying pays $100 per position, for positions 1 thru 5. For national events and LODRS races.

8. Class, and the Factory Shootout, contested at all LODRS races, starting with the first round of qualifying on Saturday for the benefit of the fans and the factories.

9. Heads up races pay double points for a round win, at national events or LODRS races.

10. New production street cars, built after 2005, take 300 pounds off of their factory curb weight, to allow for the removal of emissions and safety equipment not found on early model cars, and have their base (original listed) HP rating (those not already in the guide and adjusted) adjusted to 5% below their factory rating. This is to encourage the factories to also put their new production street cars in the guide to compete in the regular Stock Eliminator classes.

11. Setting a record pays 100 points, once per year/season. Another racer can set the same record, and be awarded points. Some caveats to prevent abuse are necessary. No points awarded for resetting your own record in the same season. Once you have set a record in a year/season, no points will be awarded for setting another record with a different combination.

12. Any run that results in instant HP being added to a combination will result in a full teardown procedure at that event. Any racer refusing to teardown is subject to an immediate suspension of 1 year minimum, and a fine.

This separates the factory race cars from the production street cars, and just as important, showcases the factory race cars, giving the factories the exposure they're looking for. It gives the factories a reason to put their new production street cars in the regular classes, to give "young/new" fans a reason to get involved.

With 5.0 and 6.0 weight breaks, the factory race cars are still considerably faster than the older cars, which will have a 7.0 weight break for their lightest class. In truth, the fast cars in the 7.0 and 8.0 factory race car classes will probably be faster than the traditional production street cars, the indexes will almost certainly be lower, giving them room to let them run. Once again, allowing the factory race cars to be showcased, for the benefit of the fans and the factories.

It also brings performance to the fore front of the class, giving the fans something to see and cheer, and contingency sponsors a reason to come back and pay contingency money.

It makes the AHFS work as intended.

It requires no adjustment of anyone's HP factor by NHRA, and only some adjustments of some indexes.

It has little, if any cost to NHRA, and they get a lot more reasons for paying fans to be in the stands. In fact, with potential sponsorship of the shootout and class eliminations, they stand to make money from the sponsors as well. With a reasonable amount of organization, it should have little effect on the time it takes to run an event.

These same suggestions, with some modifications, could be applied to Super Stock.

Two administrative positions should be created at NHRA, for the specific purpose of maintaining the health of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock as performance based categories. They should be responsible for forming and overseeing a committee that shall include 5 positions held by racers who shall be elected by their peers for one year terms, 3 positions, each held by a representative from each manufacturer, and 3 positions, each held by representative from a contingency sponsor, selected for a one year term. The committee should meet quarterly, the current SRAC should provide input from the racers directly to the entire committee, the contingency sponsor representatives should provide input from the contingency sponsors as a whole, directly to the entire committee, obviously, the factories have their input via their representatives. My suggestions for those two NHRA positions to start with would be Wesley Roberson, and Len Imbrogno. The complete minutes, as well as any and all votes, (which shall be non binding) of these quarterly meetings shall be published, in their entirety, in the next edition of the National Dragster, and immediately in the Competition section of the NHRA website.

[Ed Carpenter]

If Alan only worked at Nhra we might get somewhere.

[Steve Stickel]

While we are at it....

reinstate awarding points when records are set