7.5 lb class for GT

Bryan Broaddus · 08-13-2007, 05:05 PM

We would like to see NHRA make a 7.5 lb/hp class for Big Block combinations only.. Super Stock has the top 4 or 5 weight breaks for Big Block combos (A through E for the most part) but there are none in GT.

This would allow the top GT class to run close to the Classic Super Stock cars but not upstage them.

Racin Mason · 08-14-2007, 12:21 PM

Hey Bryan, you know I am all for a big block GT class, however the last thing SS needs is more classes. What they ought to do is combine GT and SS thus allowing GT cars to go all the way to 6.0 weight break. The big bonus in consolidation is more heads up runs as well. I know I am in the minority in encouraging heads up runs, but I actually like class racing more than bracket racing. Crazy, I know.

The 64 extra lbs all those 350's have to carry this year certainly does help the big block's cause though....

Lynn A McCarty · 08-14-2007, 02:32 PM

I agree with both only more towards 6.0 so we can incorporate all the old Hypo motors that are locked out of competition like the Boss 429's, Tunnel Port 427's, Tunnel Port 428's, Buick Stage II's (Tom Rix's car is already ready), 421 SD's, AMC dual quad's. The 7.0 could be like the more street type big blocks only.

All with suitable after market parts to keep the cost down.

Lynn

Dick Butler · 08-14-2007, 04:10 PM

I go for the Combining GT and SS. Agree with reasoning. Remember Gt is already old motor/new body OR new motor /old chassis.
Dick

Just Observing · 08-14-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

I go for the Combining GT and SS. Agree with reasoning. Remember Gt is already old motor/new body OR new motor /old chassis.
Dick

You keep saying this, but how can you think that combining GT & SS would not be the end to Muscle car era race cars?

They would not be comptitive at all. Plus in SS you have to use the correct engine/tranny for the car/year. Lots of these combos are not optimal. Which leads to more $$$$ for the old cars to spend to be competitive, well at least sort of competitive.

Dick it has been what 2 years since they have opened up pre 81 cars to run GT. Has anybody been successful (ie ran fast) doing this?

Another thing to rember is that under GT rules a car uses its heaviest shipping weight +/- 250 lbs to figure class eligibilty. So lots of the old cars have to use Big Block shipping weights for GT. Which makes them run much lower heavier classes than the are currently using. Which rules would you use GT or SS? If you use SS would the cavaliers and Cobalts be legal because of moving the firewall back? If so would everyone now be allowed to move their firewall back?

Bryan Broaddus · 08-14-2007, 06:32 PM

Yea, I agree that combining SS and GT is a lose lose situation for the SS cars. My Monte Carlo would have to run against the current GT/AA cars. Can you see a heads up between my 3650 lb Monte Carlo and Grossi's Sunfire or any number of Cobalts?
I know we have similar power in my car and my brothers (Firebird) and he runs 5 MPH faster, can you say aerodynamic drag! How are you going to factor that into the equation?

Dick Butler · 08-14-2007, 10:23 PM

I feel you guys might be correct about how to factor a BIG car small car deal being unreasonable. Even worse some underfactored motors might move up and Hit the over factored Vettes and even the Thunderbolts.
Question about SS cars? Have any regular SS cars been built in the past few years? any with the GT technology of low stance, Coil overs and LIGHT wt? I feel the Cuda AH stuff is advanced beyond any current SS cars running. GT is closer. If the GT rules were used you are right the big body would still be handicapped. Good points. With the AHFS factoring the GT cars differently than the SS or other body styles would it help? Look at the 71 vette 454, it is factored 475hp but the same motor in a GT is 440 with AL or 430 with steel heads I believe. Tough to correct this one in reverse..

Racin Mason · 08-15-2007, 12:41 PM

Dick brings up a good point about new cars being built. I can't remember seeing a newly built '69 Camaro come out for years, however I see a new Cobalt at almost every race.
The drag difference can be accomodated thru factoring. GT cars and SS cars have different factors for the same motor, so you simply continue this trend and have a separate factor for both styles.
I don't really think that NHRA will even consider combining classes just b/c they don't want to put up with all the whining, but it sure would be fun to actually have a heads up race or two in an eliminator for a change.
Getting back to the 7.5 lb class, Grossi's car is incredibly light and is carrying substantial removable ballast in addition to a driver who is just a touch over NHRA's allotted 170 lbs (sorry Frank). Why wouldn't Grossi just take the extra weight out and run in this new 7.5 lb class and go 8.90s? Although I love the idea of a big block class, the small blocks will just be built lighter and will always have an advantage since they will weigh 500+ lbs less.
Bryan, I think you should sell the Firebird, buy another Monte Carlo and have the two baddest SS/EA cars on the left coast.

Dick Butler · 08-15-2007, 01:08 PM

The minimum Wt for front wheel car is 2500 + driver. The only problem is BB are legal in them too. Will they fit? Dont know. One of the positive possibilities of Higher GT might be New Mustang , Camaro or Charger with early Motors.
There are two Thunderbolts coming out soon built to match or exceed the Hemi Cuda and Gt stuff. We will wait and see but I expect them to be awsome. People working at the intensity and dedication seen in SS/AH so far.
Unfortunately SS has seemed to be the place people moved out of so they could have the newest, slickest NEW cars. That has a lot to do with the index differences and records too. If SS classes were as heavily populated by more guys agressively developing them like GT could they be faster ?. Probably. If SS is allowed to come up to GT technology we know that will help also. The Vettes of Arts racers Kenny and Brandon are ALL moving up in technology.Eddie Smith too. Dave Thomas has been highly tech for several years. Thats why they go faster this year.
I feel if SS classes were given more ink and had a reason to upgrade more we would see the et improvement too. Not all of SS/AH is motor. The chassis upgrades allow the power to the pavement we see as et.

Just Observing · 08-15-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racin Mason

Dick brings up a good point about new cars being built. I can't remember seeing a newly built '69 Camaro come out for years, however I see a new Cobalt at almost every race.

Gary Merrick has a new "trick" lightweight 69 camaro built by MPR, he hasn't ran it yet though. Mcclanhan car is pretty trick and is a new PMR 1st gen camaro too. I am sure there are others.

08-13-2007, 05:05 PM	#1
Bryan Broaddus Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 104 Likes: 2 Liked 18 Times in 4 Posts	7.5 lb class for GT We would like to see NHRA make a 7.5 lb/hp class for Big Block combinations only.. Super Stock has the top 4 or 5 weight breaks for Big Block combos (A through E for the most part) but there are none in GT. This would allow the top GT class to run close to the Classic Super Stock cars but not upstage them. __________________ Bryan Broaddus 7568 STK ,SS

08-14-2007, 12:21 PM	#2
Racin Mason Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 58 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT Hey Bryan, you know I am all for a big block GT class, however the last thing SS needs is more classes. What they ought to do is combine GT and SS thus allowing GT cars to go all the way to 6.0 weight break. The big bonus in consolidation is more heads up runs as well. I know I am in the minority in encouraging heads up runs, but I actually like class racing more than bracket racing. Crazy, I know. The 64 extra lbs all those 350's have to carry this year certainly does help the big block's cause though....

08-14-2007, 02:32 PM	#3
Lynn A McCarty Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Plainfield (INDY) Indiana Posts: 468 Likes: 1 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT I agree with both only more towards 6.0 so we can incorporate all the old Hypo motors that are locked out of competition like the Boss 429's, Tunnel Port 427's, Tunnel Port 428's, Buick Stage II's (Tom Rix's car is already ready), 421 SD's, AMC dual quad's. The 7.0 could be like the more street type big blocks only. All with suitable after market parts to keep the cost down. Lynn Last edited by Lynn A McCarty; 08-14-2007 at 02:34 PM.

08-14-2007, 04:10 PM	#4
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT I go for the Combining GT and SS. Agree with reasoning. Remember Gt is already old motor/new body OR new motor /old chassis. Dick

08-14-2007, 06:32 PM	#6
Bryan Broaddus Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 104 Likes: 2 Liked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT Yea, I agree that combining SS and GT is a lose lose situation for the SS cars. My Monte Carlo would have to run against the current GT/AA cars. Can you see a heads up between my 3650 lb Monte Carlo and Grossi's Sunfire or any number of Cobalts? I know we have similar power in my car and my brothers (Firebird) and he runs 5 MPH faster, can you say aerodynamic drag! How are you going to factor that into the equation? __________________ Bryan Broaddus 7568 STK ,SS

08-14-2007, 10:23 PM	#7
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT I feel you guys might be correct about how to factor a BIG car small car deal being unreasonable. Even worse some underfactored motors might move up and Hit the over factored Vettes and even the Thunderbolts. Question about SS cars? Have any regular SS cars been built in the past few years? any with the GT technology of low stance, Coil overs and LIGHT wt? I feel the Cuda AH stuff is advanced beyond any current SS cars running. GT is closer. If the GT rules were used you are right the big body would still be handicapped. Good points. With the AHFS factoring the GT cars differently than the SS or other body styles would it help? Look at the 71 vette 454, it is factored 475hp but the same motor in a GT is 440 with AL or 430 with steel heads I believe. Tough to correct this one in reverse..

08-15-2007, 12:41 PM	#8
Racin Mason Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 58 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT Dick brings up a good point about new cars being built. I can't remember seeing a newly built '69 Camaro come out for years, however I see a new Cobalt at almost every race. The drag difference can be accomodated thru factoring. GT cars and SS cars have different factors for the same motor, so you simply continue this trend and have a separate factor for both styles. I don't really think that NHRA will even consider combining classes just b/c they don't want to put up with all the whining, but it sure would be fun to actually have a heads up race or two in an eliminator for a change. Getting back to the 7.5 lb class, Grossi's car is incredibly light and is carrying substantial removable ballast in addition to a driver who is just a touch over NHRA's allotted 170 lbs (sorry Frank). Why wouldn't Grossi just take the extra weight out and run in this new 7.5 lb class and go 8.90s? Although I love the idea of a big block class, the small blocks will just be built lighter and will always have an advantage since they will weigh 500+ lbs less. Bryan, I think you should sell the Firebird, buy another Monte Carlo and have the two baddest SS/EA cars on the left coast.

08-15-2007, 01:08 PM	#9
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: 7.5 lb class for GT The minimum Wt for front wheel car is 2500 + driver. The only problem is BB are legal in them too. Will they fit? Dont know. One of the positive possibilities of Higher GT might be New Mustang , Camaro or Charger with early Motors. There are two Thunderbolts coming out soon built to match or exceed the Hemi Cuda and Gt stuff. We will wait and see but I expect them to be awsome. People working at the intensity and dedication seen in SS/AH so far. Unfortunately SS has seemed to be the place people moved out of so they could have the newest, slickest NEW cars. That has a lot to do with the index differences and records too. If SS classes were as heavily populated by more guys agressively developing them like GT could they be faster ?. Probably. If SS is allowed to come up to GT technology we know that will help also. The Vettes of Arts racers Kenny and Brandon are ALL moving up in technology.Eddie Smith too. Dave Thomas has been highly tech for several years. Thats why they go faster this year. I feel if SS classes were given more ink and had a reason to upgrade more we would see the et improvement too. Not all of SS/AH is motor. The chassis upgrades allow the power to the pavement we see as et.