Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up

[GTX JOHN]

Ditto from us too Mike! Did you mention the distinct possibility of be torn down at ANY given race usually in the rain! Youngest son ( 20 yr. old) torn down 3 of first 7 races he ran this year...first two times before he set turn up wick and set a record.Oldest boy the race before that. We don't bring spares and half the tools to a bracket race or even our work clothes. I sure doesn't feel like bracket racing to us at least.

[danny waters sr]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Yes. And, that two-dollar bottle of shoe polish is about the ONLY similarity between Class Racing and Bracket Racing. I'll simplify it, since I have done both in my day.

-In Stock, I have DNQ'd (did not qualify) at a race, the 2000 Indy Divisional race. 141 cars showed up. Only 128 can qualify. I ended up #138, was not quick enough, and did not get to race. I've never been told in a bracket race that I was not quick enough to race. I showed up, paid, and got to race.

-Stock requires that all cars raced be accepted in the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. A minimum of fifty units must have been factory produced for that particular car/engine combination to be eligible to raced. Brackets, pretty much if you can build it, you can run it, as long as it meets safety specs for the ET's it runs.

-At the same race in Stock, I had a run DQ'd because my fuel did not pass fuel check. I have never had my fuel checked in bracket racing. In brackets, you can run racing gas, pump gas, methanol....in Stock, it is accepted racing fuel only.

-Stock requires all cars leave off a footbrake/clutch pedal, off of the bottom bulb, and you must manually shift the car (unless it's a late model EFI car where the computer shifts the car). In brackets, air/electronic shifters, delay boxes, throttle stops and transbrakes are permitted in a few classes.

-I had a run disallowed once in Stock because the car was five pounds too light for the minimum weight for the class I was running in. I've never been asked to weigh at a bracket race.

-I set a few National Records in 2004 in Stock. I had to teardown, have my head, intake, throttle body and camshaft checked to see it was the correct parts, correct year and casting number for the part, that they were not modified in any way, and that they met all the factory specs. Had I failed to meet any of the above, I would have been sent home from the race, and possibly been suspended for several months to a year, depending on how flagrant the violation was. In bracket racing, the only things I've ever had checked were to see if I had a seatbelt, that my battery was secure, and that I had an overflow resevoir. I have to show my NHRA/IHRA membership and competition license to race Stock. In brackets, never once was I asked for any credentials, even a state-issued drivers license.

-In Stock, each car/class has to meet a performance minimum (Class Index). I can not dial-in any slower than that particular standard. In bracket racing, I was never told that I "can not dial slower than _.__ seconds.

-Stock has a tire restriction of nine inches wide, by thirty inches tall. In bracket racing, I can run any size tire. Stock allows no chassis modifications, other than bolt-on traction bars. In brackets, I can run a 4 link suspension. Stock does not permit tubbing for bigger wheels. Bracket racing does.

-I have to run a stock, steel, flat hood in Stock. Bracket racing permits a fiberglass hood with a scoop.

- I have to have a full interior, dashboard, headliner, etc in Stock. In brackets, I can strip everything out that I don't want.

-And, last but not least, there is no advantage to being x-amount fast in bracket racing (unless you want to chase). You just want to be as consistant as possible. In Stock, you want to be consistant, but you need performance for the times you run Class Eliminations or have a Class Run in the eliminator. No shoe polish needed in those cases. Your B/SA bracket car can be the most consistant car in the world, and make 100 runs with .05 seconds. But, if your B/SA bracket car is running 10.90's and you have to run Jim Boudreau or Gary Richard in their B/SA, and they are running 10.40's....well, sorry about your damn luck. 10.90's, and $3 million dollars worth of stock in shoe polish will get you a cup of coffee....and a trip home for the weekend.

I need to talk to my buddy tomorrow. He built a really nice bracket car last year for Super Pro, but admits he's not the best driver, as far as driving the finish line. He asked me to drive it for him next year. It's really sweet. It's an early 1980's Malibu, with a 509 big block on alcohol, Dart heads, Dominator carb, 2.02 Powerglide with air shifter, and a delay box. Fiberglass hood with a Pro Stock-style hood scoop. The car has no interior (sheet metal) except a few gauges, drivers seat, steering wheel and roll cage. 14x33 Goodyear slicks, tubbed, no inner fenderwells in the front, aftermarket lightweight aluminum radiator. The firewall has been altered and moved back an inch. Car is fairly consistant, runs high 10.0's on a really good day, and low 10.20's on a hot, muggy day. Weighs about 2730 pounds, with driver. Sounds like a really neat bracket....err, I mean Stock Eliminator car, since they are the same. I think I'll ask him if we can take it to the first Division 1 open next year and enter it in Stock. Over/under five seconds for the tech guys to laugh their *** off and throw me out, or put me into Super Gas or Super Street? But, they can't throw me out of Stock!! I mean, it's just a ''bracket race''...right?

Oh wait...

Don't forget the ladder that you have to run certain persons per qualifying. Unlike bracket racing as you can hide in the back of the lanes and pick and choose who you think you can beat or split buy-backs (none in stock) . And as Mike saysect ect ect.........Along with 9 pages of stocker rules.

[Stocker 2]

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

[thomas sheehan]

Originally Posted by Stocker 2

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

I guess you're calling Keith Lynch a "non- driver"......... (that's funny right there!)

[Patrick Downing]

If you are referring to Keith with that statement then you better do some homework. Also with everything that the "Drooze" crew has gone through this season I would say that this win was well deserved. Great Job Guys!!!

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Stocker 2

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

How many bracket racers plan or wish they could run stock or superstock? How many stock/superstock racers wish they could run brackets?
You are trying to level the field by taking the top down. Instead of making the bottom better

[Matt Welker]

Originally Posted by Jason

Your correct Mike.

In Stock or S/S the next time anyone puts their dial in on the window with shoe polish, close your eyes and click your heels together 3 time while repeating..."I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing."

Next time YOUR class racing in stock and the car along side of you has the same letters, click your heels together 3 times while repeating "I'm bracket racing, I'm bracket racing". Then let me know if you advanced to the next round and what number you dialed with the shoepolish, oh wait, we don't use shoepolish in a heads up or a class eliminations run because it's not the bracket race you think it is.

The racers who think stock is "just a bracket race" are those who change classes to avoid any chance of a heads up run or those that never go any rounds and have a very low probability of being in one. The winners know a heads up is likely and prepare the best they can.

I invite you to any D1 race, bring a "D" car and we can "bracket" race all day.

[Stocker 2]

Originally Posted by Patrick Downing

If you are referring to Keith with that statement then you better do some homework. Also with everything that the "Drooze" crew has gone through this season I would say that this win was well deserved. Great Job Guys!!!

Well I guess that ends the controversy of the DP and CJ cars being factored wrong. So no one will ever complain again when they get beat in a heads-up run.

OK NHRA. You can go on to other issues because ALL these racers like running heads-up against cars with deep pocket owners or ones that are factored lightly. Looks like your AHFS is working properly. Good job NHRA.

[chris3racing]

And I guess the Mopars are not legal? They pay their money, they build their cars and they meet all of the rules but they're "ruining" racing for everybody else. Boy have I heard this story before, as the old saying goes, history repeats it's self. Seen how many cars both in Sportsman and Pro have a "M" or "Ford" supported on them. NHRA knows. When the money leaves this time that may become a problem in this economy. And don't no one get me wrong I was racing a chevy against the Mopars the first time this occurred.

And right in the middle of all the comparisons to a Stock/Superstock legal car and a "bracket car" is the fact that the hood has to be exactly correct. Any body wondering why there is now so much conversation with NHRA and UNLEASHED and maybe Pinks All Out. Seen NHRA's website today?

[SuperStockDodge]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Keith Lynch may be one of the best driver/builder/tuner racers there is.

I agree. Many years ago, i will never forget in qualifying at Topeka in Stock Eliminator a run that Keith made in his Nova. I remember it like yesterday, he was in the right lane and he carried the wheels past the 330 beam and ran a 10.68 on a 11.70 index. That was the coolest stocker wheel stand (that was controllable) i had ever seen in person and still ran a second under. Keith is a GOOD racer-period.