my opinion

[RPinoski1]

Is it possible the autostart system caused the rule changes to courtesy staging and no deep staging?

Seems to me the elimination of deep staging and the requirement of courtesy staging might have actually hurt the "Touring Pros" or more Savvy racers. Knowing where you are in the staging beams every time and staging in the same place would be more of an advantage than it is now.

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

I think you took my note wrong. I've always been a proponent of having deep staging legal.

What I was saying was that the same people that got deep staging banned the first time would have the same complaints all over again, and people who don't understand how Autostart works would once again be racing to the line, quick-staging or hanging people out, blah blah blah... Additionally, Deep Staging on a Pro Tree with courtesy staging enforced can be very difficult, as you have a full second less to get in and set. I've deep-staged on a .400 Pro Tree under those circumstances (7.00 index racing). Try pre-staging, bringing it up to 3800rpm, and then jamming it in Deep before the tree falls. LOL It was fun, but hardly a competitive way to race.




Going back to the very beginning of the thread though: Why? What's wrong with Full Tree racing? Great conversation for curing winter boredom, granted...

Micheal,

100 years ago when I started racing at ATCO Dragway it was a NASCAR sanctioned track (yes kiddies, NASCAR once dabbled in drag racing) and they ran what they called the "Leaver's Lose" system. It used two staging lights but only one yellow light then the green. Everyone loved it but that was when there were no electronics.

If it were used today we would have the same problems faced if we went to the pro tree.

JimR

[pauldilcher]

Don , Great idea on the tree ,seeing you have a fast car .

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Posts: 1,022 Re: my opinion

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What is it about "Stock to the lanes...last call" that you don't understand or think you are above? Is that another hour in the air conditioned RV you deserve or what?

Boy we're really splitting hairs now.I know some that can't race their way out of a paper bag that have nice cushy motorhomes with (gasp) air conditioning.The guys who win don't
all wait till the very end,at least here in Div 1.

I guess I failed to mention all the laggards who have the advantage of analyzing the cars going down the track for an hour or so in search of changing weather conditions, traction issues, etc.

I'm not exactly a heavy hitter but I do like to get to the lanes after at least 20-25 pairs go down and try to evaluate as well as I can what the conditions are.

[I] You seem to be wandering into the "Let's see how I can tilt the table" syndrome.And as
mentioned numerous times you haven't gone down the track in how long?That being said you do have the right to your opinion though it doesn't seem to carry much weight.
I hope you do get the car out next year,we do need some more AMC's out there[/I].

My "tilt the table" is to show an equitable way for all. All except the laggards that is.
And your right, I am entitled to my opinion. The fact I have not been on the track in a class car in nearly two years has no bearing on my ability to not only form, but offer an opinion. Does it carry any weight? I don't know, how does one formulate that equation? Is my opinion any more or less "weight worthy" than yours? Probably not, making both you and I equal in such regard. I can accept zero and would give as much to you. And like Don Kennedy said pages back, when one has nothing to offer, they naturally turn to the insults.
And hopefully I will get back on the track this next season. Progress is slow but being done right. Some relish in having the most trips down the track, I relish in taking the time to do it right. It is a job I will be proud of and will be a level of sophistication not seen on an AMC drag car.
Now back to the subject, please.

Don, I think your age has clouded your judgement!

Dwayne

[Don Kennedy]

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[Rich Biebel]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Micheal,

100 years ago when I started racing at ATCO Dragway it was a NASCAR sanctioned track (yes kiddies, NASCAR once dabbled in drag racing) and they ran what they called the "Leaver's Lose" system. It used two staging lights but only one yellow light then the green. Everyone loved it but that was when there were no electronics.

If it were used today we would have the same problems faced if we went to the pro tree.

JimR

I was at Atco when it was Nascar sanctioned so I can confirm this is true

It was also IHRA for a while and they held at least one National event there....

There was also the UBRA and they promoted and held big bracket races there....

This thread is very funny.....Don Kennedy, you have some valid points but mostly your way off base......

I would agree with the complaint about "waiting" for someone. It is an irritating condition and is likely to get someone rubbed raw....and might lead to a miscue but then that is all part of racing...Controlling ones emotions and blocking that stuff out once you fire your car and prepare to race. There are numerous things that can happen that can get a racers concentration broken. If you let that happen you lost before you staged......

[Don Kennedy]

...

[Michael Beard]

it was never about me personally but about a way to keep from red lighting and tied into the pro sportsman

A Pro Tree introduces more problems than it solves, and excludes more than it includes, *and* it doesn't solve the red-lighting problem. You're going to have cars that can't hit it shallow, and don't have enough adjustment to keep from going red when deep staging. You'd end up pushing people toward building certain combinations to optimize their R/T's, just as eliminating deep staging did. IMO, a more worthy (and likely) campaign "for" the little guy would be to permit deep staging... but we've already been down that road, and the arguments on both sides have been beat to death, so the likelihood of it returning is virtually nil -- the same as changing the starting system.

If red-lighting is "the" issue, adjust the car and/or the driver, use a practice tree, use a blinder if that suits your particular style, ad infinitum. No offense intended to anyone, but a lot of drivers would see immediate improvements if they would approach their driving like they do building engines or setting up cars. Just as "the slow guys" are often admonished to "work on their stuff", the same goes for driving -- Do NOT accept that a driver is stuck at a certain level of ability. While some are going to be blessed with more innate ability than others, *everyone* can learn and improve. But, just like making your car better, it takes willingness, time, effort, and dedication. I've worked with a lot of guys over the years, to varying degrees, and *everyone* can be better than they are right now.

Unless you simply "outlaw" the Pro Sportsman, nothing you do is going to change anything. They adapt and overcome, and that is what makes champions. Even if you eliminated R/T's from timeslips or changed the rollout from one event to the next, you'd end up getting the opposite effect from what you seek, because the best would adapt quicker . Some mentioned that a Pro Tree would be better for heads-up runs... Again, quite the opposite, as the faster car would have less fear of red-lighting, and you'd see less holeshot wins.

In terms of people coming to the lanes late, that's been covered in topics here before as well. People will do as much as you let them get away, so until you put Nitro Joe in charge, well, that's what you've got. (Most of the hitters carry anyway and have pager weather stations anyway, so the argument about waiting to the end to have a better chance doesn't hold water.)

In terms of points and traveling, it sounds like IHRA's Tournament of Champions system is just what you're looking for.

For all of the above: You have to think long-term, past the immediacy of any given "good idea".

$.02,

[Ed Wright]

Some wanted a .5 pro tree to keep from going red. How is that different from a blinder? No problem going red with a blinder. Most want a change they think will make them more succesfull. Same guys (the drivers) will still win. Always been that way, will always be that way.