Atlanta fan appeal. - Page 3

John Lang · 04-19-2009, 03:46 PM

Art ! Speaking about Horsepower! Your Neon is right up there, 1.35? under and still untested so to speak ! I have a 65 SS/CA Hemi factored at 500, which used to be the same as the SS/AH cars. Now the AH cars are I believe at 507! What i'm getting at is I feel the rating is too high in the 65 cars, as the 68 cars have a much higher hood scoop, they can run the newer, higher manifolds, that we can't. I'm not whinning, just bring up a point, and I do like the neon, I'ts just that the ring & pinion is in the wrong end of the car!....I'LL Get over It.... Later John Lang

X-TECH MAN · 04-19-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by art leong

I believe it is totally different The mustangs are race cars the older cars had their hp done with mufflers, very small cams, stock pistons, stock fuel pumps Etc.Etc.
If you put the older cars back to the way they came from the factory. I would agree 100%.
Even the race hemis and max wedge cars came with cast iron manifolds.
The early cars have an awful lot of enhancements done by the racers. The mustangs are done by the factory they come with race headers, a sfi balancer etc.
Yes they are going to make a lot more power than the factory number. But so does a 427 chevy or a street hemi.
How much money does it take to build a competitive a or aa stocker. I'm sure you will wind up close to if not more than the mustangs.

Id say about $50,000 to $70,000 to start with and the old Camaros, Mustangs, early 60,s Mopars cost a fortune IF you can find a decent one to build. If its a good Corvette then its more like $100,000.

Ken Miele · 04-19-2009, 04:03 PM

Mark, with all do respect and the same goes to everyone that thinks racing stock eliminator is more expensive today then in the past. Fee's being raised is not the death of NHRA. When I started racing stock over 23 years ago it was no more expensive for the money I was making then, then it is in today's money. I was working for UPS making $15.00 an hour, today UPS drivers make close to $30.00 an hour. Everything has gone up along with salary's. If someone's situation has not changed in 20 years, then yes it has gone up for them. My first stocker, the one I drive today cost me $8000.00 and was race ready. It was only a 2 tenths under car and when I worked on it, it was an index car. I needed to learn allot just to get it back to run under the index. I spent lots of money and time and had fun doing it. If you went 4 tenths under you were a top 5 qualifier. This was in 1987, my car was already 19 years old, I was 29 and thought the old cars were still cool as I think many young people still think today.

Today I can build along with anyone else a stocker for less than $15000.00 and go 8 tenths under. A late 80's Mustang 5.0 or the same year Camaro's can be built for the same. If you go to 2 nationals, 7 divisions and 2 opens you will have to take 2 days off and 1 day respectively per race, I do not see that being a problem. I spent about $1100.00 for entry fees in '87, today for the same racers I would spend about $2000.00 for entry fees. Membership and car number was about $60.00, it cost $109.00 today. You don't have to run AA to be completive, just ask Lee Zane, when he ran his Apollo.

Granted the money you can win has not gone up much, but I doubt there are many who race today that depend on the winnings to be able to race next week.

All the talk about the new CJ's and Challengers is way over blown, how many racers will be effected by the new cars? I for one, being a AA car I'm not complaining, I look forward to racing them. Even with the Challenger being able to run some of the slower classes, the effect will be small on most racers. With all this said, I do not think NHRA has priced anyone out of stock eliminator.

Choose your class carefully, and you can have fun in stock for no more then it cost 20 years ago in today's dollars.

Alan Roehrich · 04-19-2009, 04:12 PM

Nice early Camaros between G and A are bringing less than $40K, ready to run. No doubt, a Corvette will run you double. A Nova will bring less than a Camaro. The one thing you do not see for sale a lot is a Chevelle.

Example: If it is still for sale, one of the Ryans has a really nice Nova for sale for about $12K as a roller. Pete (Biondo) has a nice 396 for sale for about $10K. You need a transmission (store bought is only $5K or so, plus maybe $600 or so for a converter), a set of headers (Stahls for $1500, or Elstons for $3500 or so), and the usual add ons. So you could be running A or AA in a really nice car that would probably be real competitive for less than $35K. And that is if you do not negotiate on anything. Also, it would be a real pretty red Nova with a 396/375, you could probably get your money back if you could race it and hold on for a while.

I have not done any research into the Ford or Mopar stuff, so I am not qualified to comment on what that stuff costs, but it is a bit pricier than the Chevy stuff.

But if you can do a lot of the work yourself, shop smart, and do not get in a hurry, you can build for less.

A real bargain can be had if you find an abandoned project. And unfortunately in these economic times, they will get easier to find.

If you must have every trick in the book, buy everything, and pay to have it installed, then no doubt, you'll spend $50K plus. Maybe closer to $70K.

art leong · 04-19-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Lang

Art ! Speaking about Horsepower! Your Neon is right up there, 1.35? under and still untested so to speak ! I have a 65 SS/CA Hemi factored at 500, which used to be the same as the SS/AH cars. Now the AH cars are I believe at 507! What i'm getting at is I feel the rating is too high in the 65 cars, as the 68 cars have a much higher hood scoop, they can run the newer, higher manifolds, that we can't. I'm not whinning, just bring up a point, and I do like the neon, I'ts just that the ring & pinion is in the wrong end of the car!....I'LL Get over It.... Later John Lang

I have one of those hood scoops on my car. But for me its more of a parachute than a scoop. I'm sure it costs me at least one mph. Haven't gone 1.35 yet. But I'm not in a horsepower class it's cubic inches in my case.
Hoping the new mods will get it quite a bit quicker. But the main thing is I have got to get it to leave harder. Lately I can't hit the tree with a grenade. I wish I could deep stage. But some of the crybabies took care of that.

JRyan · 04-19-2009, 06:16 PM

Kenny, with all due respect, you live in a completely different world than I. To travel, in our Division, to the events you suggested would encumber 28 WORKING days of my time. Division V is HUGH geographically. It would also cost me 21 days of motels and the costs of 11 races for a total of OVER $9500.

You started UPS at ONLY $15.00 per hour. I don't make that much now. That is why I have two jobs at age 64. I retired before age 50, but through no fault of mine, my retirement disappeared (many know the story). I'd like to race more, but it isn't worth the effort to do it the NHRA way. We have our nearby Stock/Superstock races that pay BETTER than NHRA Points races or National Opens, and damn near as well as the current NHRA National Events.

In 2000, Rick won the Mile-Highs and collected $12,800. Last year, the same pieces on the car would have paid $4500 plus NHRA's purse. Yet you say, "Granted the money you can win hasn't gone up much..." GONE UP MUCH????? It looks like DOWN to me. Plus, winning Class always paid for the trip. So monetarily, it can be tough on some to continue to race. But we do it anyway. Just not like we used to.

Jerry

JRyan · 04-19-2009, 06:20 PM

Alan, Thanks for the pitch on the Nova. It really is a nice car and the new owner will pick it up Tuesday turn-key with a 396/350.

Jerry

Mark Yacavone · 04-19-2009, 06:26 PM

"I do not think NHRA has priced anyone out of stock eliminator."

Kenny, We'll see. Maybe you're right, but I still don't think it's a good year to be raising fees on anyone, young or old.

Anyway, the main point of my post was about getting the young guys into some sort of class racing.
I don't think many 22 year olds could afford it. You said yourself. You make alot more money now, than you did 20 years ago.

Alan Roehrich · 04-19-2009, 06:26 PM

Jerry, we had actually talked about doing just what I posted. It just wasn't in the cards for us right now.

Ken Miele · 04-19-2009, 07:37 PM

Mark,

I do agree the timing of raising fees was not good.

I do not know if I'm right or wrong, I just like to have a positive attitude about racing and life in general. If things don't work out, well at least I had a good time while I was doing it.

Not being taken advantage of is commendable along with standing up for what you believe in, but always being negative makes for a miserable life.

Jerry, I understand some people may not make as much money as they need to race. I'm just pointing out how the increased fees effected me. I have won two nationals events over many years. The first one in 1991 I won $9800.00, the second one in 1997 I won $12000.00. If i won today, I would be getting $13000.00. Its not much of an increase, but it has gone up for me.

Good luck Jerry, I do wish you well.

04-19-2009, 03:46 PM	#21
John Lang Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sheboygan Wi Posts: 391 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Art ! Speaking about Horsepower! Your Neon is right up there, 1.35? under and still untested so to speak ! I have a 65 SS/CA Hemi factored at 500, which used to be the same as the SS/AH cars. Now the AH cars are I believe at 507! What i'm getting at is I feel the rating is too high in the 65 cars, as the 68 cars have a much higher hood scoop, they can run the newer, higher manifolds, that we can't. I'm not whinning, just bring up a point, and I do like the neon, I'ts just that the ring & pinion is in the wrong end of the car!....I'LL Get over It.... Later John Lang __________________ John Lang 365 STK, SS

04-19-2009, 04:03 PM	#23
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,540 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Mark, with all do respect and the same goes to everyone that thinks racing stock eliminator is more expensive today then in the past. Fee's being raised is not the death of NHRA. When I started racing stock over 23 years ago it was no more expensive for the money I was making then, then it is in today's money. I was working for UPS making $15.00 an hour, today UPS drivers make close to $30.00 an hour. Everything has gone up along with salary's. If someone's situation has not changed in 20 years, then yes it has gone up for them. My first stocker, the one I drive today cost me $8000.00 and was race ready. It was only a 2 tenths under car and when I worked on it, it was an index car. I needed to learn allot just to get it back to run under the index. I spent lots of money and time and had fun doing it. If you went 4 tenths under you were a top 5 qualifier. This was in 1987, my car was already 19 years old, I was 29 and thought the old cars were still cool as I think many young people still think today. Today I can build along with anyone else a stocker for less than $15000.00 and go 8 tenths under. A late 80's Mustang 5.0 or the same year Camaro's can be built for the same. If you go to 2 nationals, 7 divisions and 2 opens you will have to take 2 days off and 1 day respectively per race, I do not see that being a problem. I spent about $1100.00 for entry fees in '87, today for the same racers I would spend about $2000.00 for entry fees. Membership and car number was about $60.00, it cost $109.00 today. You don't have to run AA to be completive, just ask Lee Zane, when he ran his Apollo. Granted the money you can win has not gone up much, but I doubt there are many who race today that depend on the winnings to be able to race next week. All the talk about the new CJ's and Challengers is way over blown, how many racers will be effected by the new cars? I for one, being a AA car I'm not complaining, I look forward to racing them. Even with the Challenger being able to run some of the slower classes, the effect will be small on most racers. With all this said, I do not think NHRA has priced anyone out of stock eliminator. Choose your class carefully, and you can have fun in stock for no more then it cost 20 years ago in today's dollars.

04-19-2009, 04:12 PM	#24
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,561 Liked 1,788 Times in 408 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Nice early Camaros between G and A are bringing less than $40K, ready to run. No doubt, a Corvette will run you double. A Nova will bring less than a Camaro. The one thing you do not see for sale a lot is a Chevelle. Example: If it is still for sale, one of the Ryans has a really nice Nova for sale for about $12K as a roller. Pete (Biondo) has a nice 396 for sale for about $10K. You need a transmission (store bought is only $5K or so, plus maybe $600 or so for a converter), a set of headers (Stahls for $1500, or Elstons for $3500 or so), and the usual add ons. So you could be running A or AA in a really nice car that would probably be real competitive for less than $35K. And that is if you do not negotiate on anything. Also, it would be a real pretty red Nova with a 396/375, you could probably get your money back if you could race it and hold on for a while. I have not done any research into the Ford or Mopar stuff, so I am not qualified to comment on what that stuff costs, but it is a bit pricier than the Chevy stuff. But if you can do a lot of the work yourself, shop smart, and do not get in a hurry, you can build for less. A real bargain can be had if you find an abandoned project. And unfortunately in these economic times, they will get easier to find. If you must have every trick in the book, buy everything, and pay to have it installed, then no doubt, you'll spend $50K plus. Maybe closer to $70K. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

04-19-2009, 06:16 PM	#26
JRyan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aberdeen SD Posts: 645 Likes: 30 Liked 112 Times in 31 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Kenny, with all due respect, you live in a completely different world than I. To travel, in our Division, to the events you suggested would encumber 28 WORKING days of my time. Division V is HUGH geographically. It would also cost me 21 days of motels and the costs of 11 races for a total of OVER $9500. You started UPS at ONLY $15.00 per hour. I don't make that much now. That is why I have two jobs at age 64. I retired before age 50, but through no fault of mine, my retirement disappeared (many know the story). I'd like to race more, but it isn't worth the effort to do it the NHRA way. We have our nearby Stock/Superstock races that pay BETTER than NHRA Points races or National Opens, and damn near as well as the current NHRA National Events. In 2000, Rick won the Mile-Highs and collected $12,800. Last year, the same pieces on the car would have paid $4500 plus NHRA's purse. Yet you say, "Granted the money you can win hasn't gone up much..." GONE UP MUCH????? It looks like DOWN to me. Plus, winning Class always paid for the trip. So monetarily, it can be tough on some to continue to race. But we do it anyway. Just not like we used to. Jerry

04-19-2009, 06:20 PM	#27
JRyan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aberdeen SD Posts: 645 Likes: 30 Liked 112 Times in 31 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Alan, Thanks for the pitch on the Nova. It really is a nice car and the new owner will pick it up Tuesday turn-key with a 396/350. Jerry

04-19-2009, 06:26 PM	#28
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,809 Likes: 2,899 Liked 5,109 Times in 1,947 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. "I do not think NHRA has priced anyone out of stock eliminator." Kenny, We'll see. Maybe you're right, but I still don't think it's a good year to be raising fees on anyone, young or old. Anyway, the main point of my post was about getting the young guys into some sort of class racing. I don't think many 22 year olds could afford it. You said yourself. You make alot more money now, than you did 20 years ago. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

04-19-2009, 06:26 PM	#29
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,561 Liked 1,788 Times in 408 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Jerry, we had actually talked about doing just what I posted. It just wasn't in the cards for us right now. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

04-19-2009, 07:37 PM	#30
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,540 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: Atlanta fan appeal. Mark, I do agree the timing of raising fees was not good. I do not know if I'm right or wrong, I just like to have a positive attitude about racing and life in general. If things don't work out, well at least I had a good time while I was doing it. Not being taken advantage of is commendable along with standing up for what you believe in, but always being negative makes for a miserable life. Jerry, I understand some people may not make as much money as they need to race. I'm just pointing out how the increased fees effected me. I have won two nationals events over many years. The first one in 1991 I won $9800.00, the second one in 1997 I won $12000.00. If i won today, I would be getting $13000.00. Its not much of an increase, but it has gone up for me. Good luck Jerry, I do wish you well.