We need a new "instant" trigger! - Page 11

Alan Roehrich · 03-29-2009, 12:49 PM

They do not run class often enough to talk about. And when they do, if there is inclement weather, the first thing to get canceled is class eliminations. So the idea of removing heads up racing during final eliminations is ludicrous, unless we want to completely remove performance as a part of Stock and Super Stock. More often than not, class is NOT contested at National Events. Removing heads up races from final eliminations is a bad idea. It's the last thing that should be done.

Alan Roehrich · 03-29-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Alan, if they do not go for the "free pass" thats their fault. They are going to get hit regardless. Increments are for the whole track, not just the 1,000' to finish line.

Art, if it is a singles class, it does not matter, no one else is in it either. The AHFS is for heads up runs, it does not matter any other time as it is off your dial .

Ron Ortiz
U/SA free ride

Ron, if they don't go for the free pass, there's no data to use to hit them. And the smart racers are not going to go for the free pass.

Forget incrementals. It's not going to happen. They do not like accumulating and compiling the data they do have. They sure won't add to that load.

magnumv8 · 03-29-2009, 01:06 PM

Now you know why car counts are falling like a stone, the economy won't stop a diehard racer....knowing that there will be a couple hitters in your class at an event you want to enter will make you stay home...I have seen it a lot....heads up during eliminations HAS to go, it has no place now, NHRA wants to grow and it will if they look at the facts that speak for themselves....go run heads up at a heads up event, they are popping up everywhere, NHRA took on the dialing system years ago to "level the fields" and make policing the classes easier and the way it is now is not level....this would eliminate a lot of deep thinking about what to do with a combo....maybe I am looking at this backwards Alan, maybe they should eliminate the dialing and run everything heads up again....oh, that's right they used to do that and that is how we ended up with PROSTOCK

Alan Roehrich · 03-29-2009, 01:18 PM

The economy WILL stop a diehard racer. No money = no racing. I know plenty of people who have been sitting it out over money. Car counts are down due to the economy. Even people I know who are behind when it comes to HP will go race when they can afford it. Right now, they can't afford it. I do not know a soul who has stayed home fearing a heads up run. If you're smart, with a little luck you can work the ladder to avoid a heads up.

No, we do not have to eliminate heads up runs in final eliminations. It's the last thing that should be done. And it will not help car count or spectator count. Heads up no breakout racing is one of the few things all fans do understand.

442OLDS · 03-29-2009, 01:23 PM

I have to agree that it is about time to remove the trigger and see how fast some cars are actually capable of going.
The quality of drivers is better than ever today.If someone can run 1.7 under,and the other car can only run 1.2 under,the faster car will get a decent light and drive the stripe by few hundreths or less.On Drag Race Central,the results "look" like it was a close race,but in reality,it wasn't.
Also,I propose that all HEADS UP RUNS be run on a .400 pro tree,or maybe even an INSTANT green.

442OLDS · 03-29-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I do not know a soul who has stayed home fearing a heads up run. If you're smart, with a little luck you can work the ladder to avoid a heads up run

Easier said than done.

Ron Ortiz · 03-29-2009, 01:33 PM

Alan, if they do not use incrementals, then the problem will never be corrected. There is no other way to guage a cars performance.

Additionally, how many racers that are trying to "save" their combo are set up slow at the 60' to 660".
They're not, they cut back on the top end. So much for avoiding the free pass

Ron Ortiz
U/SA tick, tick, tick

Alan Roehrich · 03-29-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 442OLDS

Easier said than done.

Not really. Before we got to where we ran decent, we learned to move around on the ladder to avoid heads up races. And we did not get a heads up race we did not want for a long time. Now we run pretty decent, and we do not worry so much about a heads up race. You can work the ladder. It is just another racing skill.

Alan Roehrich · 03-29-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Alan, if they do not use incrementals, then the problem will never be corrected. There is no other way to guage a cars performance.

Additionally, how many racers that are trying to "save" their combo are set up slow at the 60' to 660".
They're not, they cut back on the top end. So much for avoiding the free pass

Ron Ortiz
U/SA tick, tick, tick

Ron, once again, I agree, without incrementals the system does not work, it has too many holes. But I also think NHRA is very unlikely to use incrementals, ever. They do not have to, and no one is going to force them to. It would cost them time and money, neither of which they have any desire to spend on either class.

Billy Nees · 03-29-2009, 03:11 PM

Mark, believe it or not, I'm not concerned about U/SA. Go reread my comments from the beginning. I have used Bobs combo as an example as it is the most graphic and the most current. I also have never had a heads up run in eliminations and that's a lot of rounds.
Alan, I agree with cwigle about the more obscure combos in the more popular classes getting hit first. The more of a given combo, the more likely that combo is to have more proportionately slow and fast cars. The Hemis and 6 packs seem to have proven this.
How about this, instant hit the cars off of the 1/8th mile indexes. It's simple and it won't affect any of the other triggers. For that matter, let's look at putting all of the triggers at the 1/8 mile. Also, I like Beardies idea about weight in the cars. If for example, a car enters a race classified as a AA/SA car and on it's first qualifying pass goes across the scales at A/SA weight (8.00-8.50) then give the driver the option of running A or taking the weight out of the car to make AA. On his second qualifying pass if he stays in AA and the
car weighs more that 8.00 lbs then the driver is DQed for the race.
Ron, as much as I like the CIC thing it won't work in Stock and SS.

03-29-2009, 12:49 PM	#101
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! They do not run class often enough to talk about. And when they do, if there is inclement weather, the first thing to get canceled is class eliminations. So the idea of removing heads up racing during final eliminations is ludicrous, unless we want to completely remove performance as a part of Stock and Super Stock. More often than not, class is NOT contested at National Events. Removing heads up races from final eliminations is a bad idea. It's the last thing that should be done. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

03-29-2009, 01:06 PM	#103
magnumv8 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Coraopolis, Pa. Posts: 172 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Now you know why car counts are falling like a stone, the economy won't stop a diehard racer....knowing that there will be a couple hitters in your class at an event you want to enter will make you stay home...I have seen it a lot....heads up during eliminations HAS to go, it has no place now, NHRA wants to grow and it will if they look at the facts that speak for themselves....go run heads up at a heads up event, they are popping up everywhere, NHRA took on the dialing system years ago to "level the fields" and make policing the classes easier and the way it is now is not level....this would eliminate a lot of deep thinking about what to do with a combo....maybe I am looking at this backwards Alan, maybe they should eliminate the dialing and run everything heads up again....oh, that's right they used to do that and that is how we ended up with PROSTOCK

03-29-2009, 01:18 PM	#104
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! The economy WILL stop a diehard racer. No money = no racing. I know plenty of people who have been sitting it out over money. Car counts are down due to the economy. Even people I know who are behind when it comes to HP will go race when they can afford it. Right now, they can't afford it. I do not know a soul who has stayed home fearing a heads up run. If you're smart, with a little luck you can work the ladder to avoid a heads up. No, we do not have to eliminate heads up runs in final eliminations. It's the last thing that should be done. And it will not help car count or spectator count. Heads up no breakout racing is one of the few things all fans do understand. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

03-29-2009, 01:23 PM	#105
442OLDS VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Elgin,IL Posts: 1,339 Likes: 5 Liked 282 Times in 103 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! I have to agree that it is about time to remove the trigger and see how fast some cars are actually capable of going. The quality of drivers is better than ever today.If someone can run 1.7 under,and the other car can only run 1.2 under,the faster car will get a decent light and drive the stripe by few hundreths or less.On Drag Race Central,the results "look" like it was a close race,but in reality,it wasn't. Also,I propose that all HEADS UP RUNS be run on a .400 pro tree,or maybe even an INSTANT green.

03-29-2009, 01:33 PM	#107
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Alan, if they do not use incrementals, then the problem will never be corrected. There is no other way to guage a cars performance. Additionally, how many racers that are trying to "save" their combo are set up slow at the 60' to 660". They're not, they cut back on the top end. So much for avoiding the free pass Ron Ortiz U/SA tick, tick, tick __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK

03-29-2009, 03:11 PM	#110
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,486 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,683 Times in 1,731 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Mark, believe it or not, I'm not concerned about U/SA. Go reread my comments from the beginning. I have used Bobs combo as an example as it is the most graphic and the most current. I also have never had a heads up run in eliminations and that's a lot of rounds. Alan, I agree with cwigle about the more obscure combos in the more popular classes getting hit first. The more of a given combo, the more likely that combo is to have more proportionately slow and fast cars. The Hemis and 6 packs seem to have proven this. How about this, instant hit the cars off of the 1/8th mile indexes. It's simple and it won't affect any of the other triggers. For that matter, let's look at putting all of the triggers at the 1/8 mile. Also, I like Beardies idea about weight in the cars. If for example, a car enters a race classified as a AA/SA car and on it's first qualifying pass goes across the scales at A/SA weight (8.00-8.50) then give the driver the option of running A or taking the weight out of the car to make AA. On his second qualifying pass if he stays in AA and the car weighs more that 8.00 lbs then the driver is DQed for the race. Ron, as much as I like the CIC thing it won't work in Stock and SS. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K