We need a new "instant" trigger!

[Dick Butler]

ART, Why do you think this topic keeps coming up if MANY people arent concerned about it. There are group of people who want to race someone and a group who need to search the fine print and build a "Critter" that NHRA could care less about because it is a "one of a kind". NHRA will never bother fine tuning the factoring. It will always be a last resort deal.Poorly thought out and done for attendance reasons. Thus the low hp NEW cars which always will exist.
I have no concern which cars are allowed to race. I have always jokingly said if Green Station wagons was the class and there were 50 in the US to race and be proud of their performance then so be it.
I ran several classes where None of us could be #1 Qualifier due to the factoring on our combination but when you run class with that class and beat 19 cars for the trophy it MEANS something to ANYONE who cares about Stk or SS racing.
If you tell me you ran 2.00 under in a one of a kind car and the temptation is to ask " so What?" Does that mean the index is soft? the car is wrong? The factor is off ? If you said you BEAT twenty cars and you are the faster at the same track that is accomplishment. A Weak Factor is a Weak factor regardless of what car it applies to and hurts the whole playing field and racing group the same.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

ART, Why do you think this topic keeps coming up if MANY people arent concerned about it. There are group of people who want to race someone and a group who need to search the fine print and build a "Critter" that NHRA could care less about because it is a "one of a kind". NHRA will never bother fine tuning the factoring. It will always be a last resort deal.Poorly thought out and done for attendance reasons. Thus the low hp NEW cars which always will exist.
I have no concern which cars are allowed to race. I have always jokingly said if Green Station wagons was the class and there were 50 in the US to race and be proud of their performance then so be it.
I ran several classes where None of us could be #1 Qualifier due to the factoring on our combination but when you run class with that class and beat 19 cars for the trophy it MEANS something to ANYONE who cares about Stk or SS racing.
If you tell me you ran 2.00 under in a one of a kind car and the temptation is to ask " so What?" Does that mean the index is soft? the car is wrong? The factor is off ? If you said you BEAT twenty cars and you are the faster at the same track that is accomplishment. A Weak Factor is a Weak factor regardless of what car it applies to and hurts the whole playing field and racing group the same.

Dick you really don't get it. Stock "ain't what it used to be in the popular classes. If racer A spends $50,000 then racer B spends $60,000. Now racer G decides to spend $75,000 Where do all the others in the alphabet fit in. If you think your knowlege and expertise can take the place of cubic dollars. I think you are sadly mistaken. These "obscure" classes allow someone to compete without cubic dollars.
You are old enough to remember when Ritchie Zul, Frank Iaconio, Paul Blevins, Etc Built their own cars and were competitive. Do you think a backyard project could even qualify in prostock now????
Diversity keeps the cost down in stock and superstock. How many superstock racers can afford to compete in SS/AH? There is a lot of prestige to run that class. But there are only a certain amount of racers that can afford it. Look in the comp ranks. Do you see a lot of 4 and 6 cylinder cars. The answer is yes.
You constantly beat the "to many classes drum". Race what ever you want and stop trying to dictate your policy on everyone else. You have three .90 classes where the playing field is level. That is enough.

[Dick Butler]

Art, Good points about Cost. Much of that is the legalizing of so many things which were not even debated in the "Old Days" Cranks were Stock or teched that way. Heads were Stock or ..... I guess cost will never be contained in a class structure without tech . The high cost of AH is a wonderful example. The rules change at political pressure instead of technical pressure. Result new higher cost rebuilds. Problem is it is falling over into the other classes now. It probably self destruct due to constant rule changes and bending.
Could you support a "new " stock level class? Sealed motors? Spec motors etc to cut cost and level the fields. Do you value racing someone without the use of a breakout to make up for differences?

[art leong]

Dick. You can never go back. Look at the "fire storm" on here about the runner volumes. I agree with you about the rules being changed to allow more and more stuff. But that ain't going to change.
To keep people from spending more money than the next guy. The only thing that would work would be claimer races. And who would build a car, knowing that someone could come over and buy it? and how would you set prices?

[Alan Roehrich]

Nothing personal Billy, but lose the attitude. You posed a question, I told you what was necessary to create a solution as an answer. Don't like it? Prove it to be false, I'm willing to listen and learn. But what I will not do is tell anyone to simply pull a new "instant HP trigger" out of their favorite orifice and expect it to work. The problem with "solutions" that are not well thought out is that they tend to create more problems than they solve. What sort of solution are you looking for? One that actually works? Or one that makes someone "feel good" because they "did something" but creates another problem.

The fact is, a dozen or so have already been through this, at length, and in detail. There is no simple single change solution, and most of those suggested will make a bad problem worse. If you want something quick, easy, and simple, and you do not care whether it works or not, by all means, pick a number that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and go with it.

[X-TECH MAN]

You all should re-read Jack McCarthy's post and think about it. NOTHING automatic will ever work.

[SS Engine Guy]

Originally Posted by art leong

If you think your knowlege and expertise can take the place of cubic dollars. I think you are sadly mistaken.

I disagree. I would rather say that cubic dollars and the "I want it NOW" syndrome has caused racers to not want to do the work to acquire the knowlege and expertise to know (for a fact) what makes a combo a good one. Learning and developing the expertise to build, maintain, and race a combo is not an easy task. That learning curve continues thru-out one's racing carrer. Richie Zul, John Lingenfelter, and Lee Shepherd come to mind in the hard work department.

Run em' off the record and let the performance and hard/smart work do the talking.
Ahfs did not work at the conception, is not working now, and will never work.
Factoring is the key and that can't be accomplished with tech being over ruled and a rule book that is a complete grey area.
Anyone could use the run completer on their weather station and do a better job as long as the combo was deamed legal before hp was added.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

You all should re-read Jack McCarthy's post and think about it. NOTHING automatic will ever work.

Terry, statistical process controls, such as they use in industry, properly applied, with good data, can work.

As far as getting people involved, you have several issues there. The biggest of which is who at Glendora do you think is capable of properly managing, and can be trusted with the power of, the system? Further, who do you think Glendora will allow you to choose?

[Michael Beard]

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Terry, statistical process controls, such as they use in industry, properly applied, with good data, can work.

As far as getting people involved, you have several issues there. The biggest of which is who at Glendora do you think is capable of properly managing, and can be trusted with the power of, the system? Further, who do you think Glendora will allow you to choose?

To my knowledge there is no one in Glendora who could be trusted or has the knowledge or desire to oversee Stock and S/S nor is there anyone Glendora would allow to do it for them. Most of the names listed have "Issues" with NHRA already.....LOL. The board would require at a minimum 3 people who no longer race themselves and have a lot of background in Stock and S/S. Names such as Westly, Bruce, ex tech guys like that and older racers who dont have agendas and egos such as someone like Woodro, Keener, etc. But then again why would they want to be involved in a thankless job like that? Its not easy to keep track of all of that stuff and the Associations dont want to pay to have it done.