They say you can't go back....but...??

Mike Carr · 12-24-2011, 01:13 PM

With all the discussions over the past 10, 20, maybe more years about how Class Racing is but a shadow of what it was supposed to be (ESPECIALLY modern Stock Eliminator), and how you can't go back, it's not 1975 anymore, etc, but how would the purists and long-time racers (or any racers) feel about this scenario?

Re-alignment of NHRA and IHRA Class Racing

1) Re-name Super Stock "Modified". Because, let's face it, modern S/S is closer to Modified Eliminator than S/S.
Class realignment"
S/S classes = Production classes
SS/A-SS/AA = A/P and A/PA, A/P is 5.5 pound class
and so forth down to P/PA
SS/AH=A/HP; retain Hemi Shootouts
SS/AM = A/MP, and so forth
SS/AS = A/MS, and so forth
SS/AX = A/MX, and so forth
SS/TA = A/PT and so forth
GT classes remain the same; GT/AA = GT/AA, and Trucks also; GT/TA = GT/TA
-For IHRA, SS/Production renamed. IP/AA-1 and 2 down to IP/JA-1 and 2. Change Modified Compact to mirror NHRA Mod Stock rules as are now.
-Keep current rules, weight breaks, Indexes per 2012 rules

2) Re-name Stock "Super Stock". Because, let's face it, modern Stockers are closer to what S/S was but a short time ago
Start at 6 pound class for A/S-A/SA, renamed SS/A-SS/AA
1/2 pound classes, down to SS/W or whatever (current W/S)
FWD Classes, AA/FS = SS/AF, down to EF/S = SS/FF
-For IHRA:
Crate Motor class designations remain; A/CM = A/CM
Stock/GT designations renamed, SS/GTA down to SS/GTG
Pure Stock re-named SS/AP down to SS/IP
EFI and truck classes combined into traditional Stock classes and re-named; FT/SA = SS/MA; A/FIA = SS/EA, etc.
-All cars permitted 10.5" slicks
-All other rules, weight breaks and Indexes per 2012 rules

3)Create new Stock Eliminator, in the spirit of what Stock Eliminator SHOULD be.
-mirroring current IHRA Pure Stock rules, with the following exceptions
All 1950 and newer cars, trucks and sports car eligible
All cars MUTS have been factory assembled, showroom-available, and in the hands of the general public.
*If you could not buy it, as is, from a dealer, license, register, insure it, and drive it home, it is NOT LEGAL for Stock*
Minimum number of units, as is, produced to be elgible. Probably 200, maybe more. Possible exceptions granted to rarer, but street legal, cars (L-88 Corvette, ZL-1 Camaro, etc)
Camshaft must check on lift, duration and overlap per OEM
OEM valve spring pressure madatory
OEM transmission ONLY. No metric 200, Jerico, etc. If car ONLY came with a TH-350, Torqueflite 727, etc, it must keep that trans. NO corporate upgrade (i.e. no TH-400 if combination did not come equppied as such)
30"x9" slick, or 10.5 D.O.T tires only. Minimum tread depth required. Transmission loop required on all RWD cars/trucks with slicks.
Factory or OEM replacement radiator permitted.
No trunk-mounted batteries unless OEM equipped.
No open exhaust, unless with factory exhaust manifolds. Headers require approved mufflers.
Unleaded gasoline permitted.
All other current (2011) IHRA Pure Stock rules apply.

Classes start at 7.00-7.49 pounds, for A/S-A/SA, down to Z/S and Z/SA
FWD classes mirror weight breaks for current IHRA FWD, with possible class/weight break adjustments for a new AA or A, Down to HF/SA at 27.50 pounds per hp.
Naturally aspirated combinations only. No turbocharged or supercharged cars permitted.

Just something I cam up with a week or so ago. What ya' think?

GarysZ24 · 12-24-2011, 02:25 PM

I'd be game for that, my car with my Lunati cam might have to run Super Stock, but I still have my factory exhaust manifolds on it (and it's essentially all stock otherwise), so it would take very little for my car to qualify for your version of Stock. I just hope that the powers that be in Glendora, and Norwalk like this idea of yours too???

Jim Hanig · 12-24-2011, 02:52 PM

What would we do with the thousnds of dollars we have already spent,for those parts.? Jim Hanig

Mike Carr · 12-24-2011, 02:58 PM

You wouldn't have to do a thing. Other than change the letters on your windows. Did you read what I wrote?

If you have, say, a current A/SA (8.00-8.49 pound Stock class) 427/425 '69 Camaro, you would be, under my proposed idea, a SS/EA (8 pound S/S class with the same rules as current 2011 A/SA engine/car rules.).

The only thing you would change is the letters on the windows and have the option of a 10.5" slick. Nothing else would change. 8 pound class, 11.00 Index.

X-TECH MAN · 12-25-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hanig

What would we do with the thousnds of dollars we have already spent,for those parts.? Jim Hanig

Thats why they make land fills.Throw the junk away.....LOL.

Mark Yacavone · 12-25-2011, 11:49 PM

Mikey, so you are really advocating the NHRA adopt another IHRA class..
Won't be the first time.
I agree on the need for an entry level class, but it's not just the cost of a Stocker that's the issue.
How about the $305 entries? Membership, permanent number fees...I don't even know what they are now,,....$10 a gallon racing fuel ? Diesel fuel or pump gas for towing ,etc, etc?
NO money for a class win! NO money till 3rd round.....
Nobody on the outside, in their right mind, would want to jump in to that.

treessavoy · 12-26-2011, 01:22 AM

If you wanna go back then you have to run off class records which means rich guys win, just like the "good old days"!

JimR

Billy Nees · 12-26-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Mikey, so you are really advocating the NHRA adopt another IHRA class..
Won't be the first time.
I agree on the need for an entry level class, but it's not just the cost of a Stocker that's the issue.
How about the $305 entries? Membership, permanent number fees...I don't even know what they are now,,....$10 a gallon racing fuel ? Diesel fuel or pump gas for towing ,etc, etc?
NO money for a class win! NO money till 3rd round.....
Nobody on the outside, in their right mind, would want to jump in to that.

I can't think of any way NHRA could come up with any kind of "Entry Level" class in this day and age. They tried a few years ago to sell S/ST as "Entry Level" and it just wound up being 632s in old S/G and SS cars. Stockers can still be built reasonably but even with our best intentions (Dime Rocket threads) in hand I don't see any cars being built. I think NHRA has just thrown the whole "Entry Level" deal into the laps of the local tracks and are happy to collect their "Cut".

Jim Hanig · 12-27-2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Thats why they make land fills.Throw the junk away.....LOL.

Maybe thats what you can afford, I cant . Why cant we stop the changes now , every year its somthing else, and we come up with new ways to fix it.After the fact. PS if you have a load of this stuff give me a call ill save you a trip to the land fill. Jim Hanig

Billy Nees · 12-27-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hanig

Maybe thats what you can afford, I cant . Why cant we stop the changes now PS if you have a load of this stuff give me a call ill save you a trip to the land fill. Jim Hanig

I'm all for stoping the changes even though most of my stuff winds up going back to the landfill I found it in anyway!

12-24-2011, 01:13 PM	#1
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	They say you can't go back....but...?? With all the discussions over the past 10, 20, maybe more years about how Class Racing is but a shadow of what it was supposed to be (ESPECIALLY modern Stock Eliminator), and how you can't go back, it's not 1975 anymore, etc, but how would the purists and long-time racers (or any racers) feel about this scenario? Re-alignment of NHRA and IHRA Class Racing 1) Re-name Super Stock "Modified". Because, let's face it, modern S/S is closer to Modified Eliminator than S/S. Class realignment" S/S classes = Production classes SS/A-SS/AA = A/P and A/PA, A/P is 5.5 pound class and so forth down to P/PA SS/AH=A/HP; retain Hemi Shootouts SS/AM = A/MP, and so forth SS/AS = A/MS, and so forth SS/AX = A/MX, and so forth SS/TA = A/PT and so forth GT classes remain the same; GT/AA = GT/AA, and Trucks also; GT/TA = GT/TA -For IHRA, SS/Production renamed. IP/AA-1 and 2 down to IP/JA-1 and 2. Change Modified Compact to mirror NHRA Mod Stock rules as are now. -Keep current rules, weight breaks, Indexes per 2012 rules 2) Re-name Stock "Super Stock". Because, let's face it, modern Stockers are closer to what S/S was but a short time ago Start at 6 pound class for A/S-A/SA, renamed SS/A-SS/AA 1/2 pound classes, down to SS/W or whatever (current W/S) FWD Classes, AA/FS = SS/AF, down to EF/S = SS/FF -For IHRA: Crate Motor class designations remain; A/CM = A/CM Stock/GT designations renamed, SS/GTA down to SS/GTG Pure Stock re-named SS/AP down to SS/IP EFI and truck classes combined into traditional Stock classes and re-named; FT/SA = SS/MA; A/FIA = SS/EA, etc. -All cars permitted 10.5" slicks -All other rules, weight breaks and Indexes per 2012 rules 3)Create new Stock Eliminator, in the spirit of what Stock Eliminator SHOULD be. -mirroring current IHRA Pure Stock rules, with the following exceptions All 1950 and newer cars, trucks and sports car eligible All cars MUTS have been factory assembled, showroom-available, and in the hands of the general public. If you could not buy it, as is, from a dealer, license, register, insure it, and drive it home, it is NOT LEGAL for Stock Minimum number of units, as is, produced to be elgible. Probably 200, maybe more. Possible exceptions granted to rarer, but street legal, cars (L-88 Corvette, ZL-1 Camaro, etc) Camshaft must check on lift, duration and overlap per OEM OEM valve spring pressure madatory OEM transmission ONLY. No metric 200, Jerico, etc. If car ONLY came with a TH-350, Torqueflite 727, etc, it must keep that trans. NO corporate upgrade (i.e. no TH-400 if combination did not come equppied as such) 30"x9" slick, or 10.5 D.O.T tires only. Minimum tread depth required. Transmission loop required on all RWD cars/trucks with slicks. Factory or OEM replacement radiator permitted. No trunk-mounted batteries unless OEM equipped. No open exhaust, unless with factory exhaust manifolds. Headers require approved mufflers. Unleaded gasoline permitted. All other current (2011) IHRA Pure Stock rules apply. Classes start at 7.00-7.49 pounds, for A/S-A/SA, down to Z/S and Z/SA FWD classes mirror weight breaks for current IHRA FWD, with possible class/weight break adjustments for a new AA or A, Down to HF/SA at 27.50 pounds per hp. Naturally aspirated combinations only. No turbocharged or supercharged cars permitted. Just something I cam up with a week or so ago. What ya' think? __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

12-24-2011, 02:25 PM	#2
GarysZ24 VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Tempe, Az. Posts: 1,270 Likes: 918 Liked 238 Times in 94 Posts	Re: They say you can't go back....but...?? I'd be game for that, my car with my Lunati cam might have to run Super Stock, but I still have my factory exhaust manifolds on it (and it's essentially all stock otherwise), so it would take very little for my car to qualify for your version of Stock. I just hope that the powers that be in Glendora, and Norwalk like this idea of yours too??? __________________ Gary Hampton '86 Z24,173 V6 CF/S #5824 (#78 in 2021)

12-24-2011, 02:52 PM	#3
Jim Hanig Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pukwana SD Posts: 860 Likes: 554 Liked 99 Times in 49 Posts	Re: They say you can't go back....but...?? What would we do with the thousnds of dollars we have already spent,for those parts.? Jim Hanig

12-24-2011, 02:58 PM	#4
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: They say you can't go back....but...?? You wouldn't have to do a thing. Other than change the letters on your windows. Did you read what I wrote? If you have, say, a current A/SA (8.00-8.49 pound Stock class) 427/425 '69 Camaro, you would be, under my proposed idea, a SS/EA (8 pound S/S class with the same rules as current 2011 A/SA engine/car rules.). The only thing you would change is the letters on the windows and have the option of a 10.5" slick. Nothing else would change. 8 pound class, 11.00 Index. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

12-25-2011, 11:49 PM	#6
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,815 Likes: 2,903 Liked 5,121 Times in 1,952 Posts	Re: They say you can't go back....but...?? Mikey, so you are really advocating the NHRA adopt another IHRA class.. Won't be the first time. I agree on the need for an entry level class, but it's not just the cost of a Stocker that's the issue. How about the $305 entries? Membership, permanent number fees...I don't even know what they are now,,....$10 a gallon racing fuel ? Diesel fuel or pump gas for towing ,etc, etc? NO money for a class win! NO money till 3rd round..... Nobody on the outside, in their right mind, would want to jump in to that. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

12-26-2011, 01:22 AM	#7
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: They say you can't go back....but...?? If you wanna go back then you have to run off class records which means rich guys win, just like the "good old days"! JimR __________________ Jim Rountree