Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ

X-TECH MAN · 02-12-2009, 02:37 PM

I remember when the 1963 Z-11 Chevy came out. They made 25 in the first run then 25 more about a month later then 7 to use up the left over parts. Total 57 cars. At the 1963 Winternationals NHRA made a NEW class for them and the new 1963 light weight Fords because not enough had been sold or available. It was called L/P (Limited production) with 7 inch slicks. This class was run just at the Winter Nats. The few (both chevy Z-11 and fiberglass Fords) that showed up with 10 inch slicks ran A/FX. After the Winternationals they (the Z-11's) all ran A/FX with 10 inch slicks. The Chevy guys had no other choice as they were not allowed in S/S (to fast for the Fords and Mopars at that time) Remember S/S back then was just like a stocker except it was the top wt breaks for production cars so S/S didnt mean anything special except they were the highest class like AA/S is today. They even ran OEM camshafts (the winner of L/P was bounced for an illegal cam). The Ford light weights ran either S/S or A/FX depending on the size tire the racer ran (thier choice) as they finally made and sold 100 fiberglass front end Fords. The point is that NHRA made a special class for these NEW and powerful cars (at that time) for ONE RACE until they either had enough on the market and sold to anyone who wanted one and/or had a chance to see how they ran in competition. Why didnt NHRA do this again until enough people who wanted one had them on the track?

Mark Yacavone · 02-12-2009, 02:46 PM

Terry, Maybe because NHRA is on a campaign to eliminate classes.
You said it yourself. FWD may be next.

X-TECH MAN · 02-12-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Terry, Maybe because NHRA is on a campaign to eliminate classes.
You said it yourself. FWD may be next.

True....but it would have been for the ONE race (the winter "WETTER" nationals) until enough were in peoples hands and on the track. Yes....I have heard that the FWD cars just might end up in the same class as the same wt break RWD cars just as the trucks run with the cars now.

udog1 · 02-12-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Terry, Maybe because NHRA is on a campaign to eliminate classes.
You said it yourself. FWD may be next.

They allready did it to me,remember!!.

Jim Wahl · 02-12-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Terry, Maybe because NHRA is on a campaign to eliminate classes.
You said it yourself. FWD may be next.

Yeah, been there - fought that! Go pick on somebody else. Jim

Tom P · 02-13-2009, 11:23 PM

I think when they combine the FWD and RWD classes it'll be the rear wheel drives crying foul once the front wheel drive guys figure out you can get reverse cut ring and pinions and run them backwards.

X-TECH MAN · 02-14-2009, 10:14 AM

WHAT THE F##K does all of this FWD crap have to do with creating a seperate TEMPORY Limited Production class for new combos until there is enough out ON THE TRACK to satisfy the min. number to be built/sold/given out and documented as being in racers hands to qualify as a stock car? Not to mention seeing what kind of performance potential these new combos have hidden in them. Travis is the only one on here that said anything other than BS. Talk about HI-JACKING a thread !

Tim Kish · 02-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

WHAT THE F##K does all of this FWD crap have to do with creating a seperate TEMPORY Limited Production class for new combos until there is enough out ON THE TRACK to satisfy the min. number to be built/sold/given out and documented as being in racers hands to qualify as a stock car? Not to mention seeing what kind of performance potential these new combos have hidden in them. Travis is the only one on here that said anything other than BS. Talk about HI-JACKING a thread !

What exactly would you learn from a seperate class where there is no reason to even run a car hard?

Travis Miller · 02-12-2009, 04:19 PM

The third paragraph of SECTION 8A - STOCK CARS on page 102 of the 2009 NHRA rulebook reads as follows:

<"OEM may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special runs must include a minimum of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent.">

This is not a new rule. It has been in the NHRA rulebook since 1997. Looks like Ford "applied for inclusion" and was granted acceptance. What OEM will be the next to step up and build a "special production run"?

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

junior barns · 02-12-2009, 04:31 PM

Hi Travis

Acceptance will not imply precedent

Lets say GM or Chrysler comes out with an outright BOGUS HP rating on a special production run.
Wonder if NHRA will (would) apply this part of the rule???

02-12-2009, 02:37 PM	#1
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ I remember when the 1963 Z-11 Chevy came out. They made 25 in the first run then 25 more about a month later then 7 to use up the left over parts. Total 57 cars. At the 1963 Winternationals NHRA made a NEW class for them and the new 1963 light weight Fords because not enough had been sold or available. It was called L/P (Limited production) with 7 inch slicks. This class was run just at the Winter Nats. The few (both chevy Z-11 and fiberglass Fords) that showed up with 10 inch slicks ran A/FX. After the Winternationals they (the Z-11's) all ran A/FX with 10 inch slicks. The Chevy guys had no other choice as they were not allowed in S/S (to fast for the Fords and Mopars at that time) Remember S/S back then was just like a stocker except it was the top wt breaks for production cars so S/S didnt mean anything special except they were the highest class like AA/S is today. They even ran OEM camshafts (the winner of L/P was bounced for an illegal cam). The Ford light weights ran either S/S or A/FX depending on the size tire the racer ran (thier choice) as they finally made and sold 100 fiberglass front end Fords. The point is that NHRA made a special class for these NEW and powerful cars (at that time) for ONE RACE until they either had enough on the market and sold to anyone who wanted one and/or had a chance to see how they ran in competition. Why didnt NHRA do this again until enough people who wanted one had them on the track? Last edited by X-TECH MAN; 02-12-2009 at 02:58 PM.

02-12-2009, 02:46 PM	#2
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,818 Likes: 2,909 Liked 5,126 Times in 1,954 Posts	Re: Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ Terry, Maybe because NHRA is on a campaign to eliminate classes. You said it yourself. FWD may be next. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

02-13-2009, 11:23 PM	#6
Tom P Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 707 Likes: 30 Liked 239 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ I think when they combine the FWD and RWD classes it'll be the rear wheel drives crying foul once the front wheel drive guys figure out you can get reverse cut ring and pinions and run them backwards.

02-14-2009, 10:14 AM	#7
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ WHAT THE F##K does all of this FWD crap have to do with creating a seperate TEMPORY Limited Production class for new combos until there is enough out ON THE TRACK to satisfy the min. number to be built/sold/given out and documented as being in racers hands to qualify as a stock car? Not to mention seeing what kind of performance potential these new combos have hidden in them. Travis is the only one on here that said anything other than BS. Talk about HI-JACKING a thread ! Last edited by X-TECH MAN; 02-14-2009 at 10:18 AM.

02-12-2009, 04:19 PM	#9
Travis Miller Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 478 Likes: 1 Liked 276 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ The third paragraph of SECTION 8A - STOCK CARS on page 102 of the 2009 NHRA rulebook reads as follows: <"OEM may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special runs must include a minimum of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent."> This is not a new rule. It has been in the NHRA rulebook since 1997. Looks like Ford "applied for inclusion" and was granted acceptance. What OEM will be the next to step up and build a "special production run"? Travis (Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

02-12-2009, 04:31 PM	#10
junior barns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541 Likes: 11 Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Z-11 CHEVY vs NEW FORD CJ Hi Travis Acceptance will not imply precedent Lets say GM or Chrysler comes out with an outright BOGUS HP rating on a special production run. Wonder if NHRA will (would) apply this part of the rule???