Stick vs. Auto index

[Jeff Lee]

Why the discrepancy between indexes in Stock with stick vs. auto?
The total difference when comparing 1/4 mile indexes is a whopping 2.00 seconds favoring the auto over the stick combinations. I've always wondered why, especially in this day and age of some pretty sophisticated transmissions, convertors and clutches. I have to believe that with the allowance of a metric 200, 904 TF or C4 in lieu of the factory offering of T400/350, 727 TF & C6 and even the allowance of a Jerico or Liberty in lieu of the T-10, M-21/22 or Top-Loader that the performance issues of yesterday are no longer worth consideration.

Some of the classes are seperated quite a bit while others are not. There doesn't seem to be a pattern as you go down the list. You'll find no differences in some of the lower classes such as L & M then the differences appear again. Look at R, T & U. So the normal argument about the little engines favoring a stick don't seem supported.
I ask that as I've heard of some racers willing to convert to a stick application but have issues that they could loose performance in relationship to the index. That's not even taking into account the lack of any delay device in the stick applications compareable to what is offered to the auto racers. And why shouldn't the stick racer have the same reaction time tools as available to the auto racers?

I heard rumor that one of the racer representatives would not accept that there were any differences between the indexes. So hear it is, for those not aware. The total difference is 2.000 seconds.

I'm looking for constructive comments and may even follow with a poll after everybody has had time to present their opinions.



Stock Indexes
Last Update: 10/7/2008
Class 1/4 Mile 1/8 Mile -------------------------------difference
AA/S 10.90 07.03 ------- AA/SA 10.90 07.03 -------.000
A/S 11.25 07.24 --------- A/SA 11.30 07.27 ------- .050
B/S 11.50 07.39 --------- B/SA 11.55 07.42 ------- .050
C/S 11.65 07.47 --------- C/SA 11.70 07.50 ------- .050
D/S 11.80 07.57 --------- D/SA 11.85 07.60 ------- .050
E/S 11.95 07.65 --------- E/SA 12.00 07.68 ------- .050
F/S 12.10 07.74 --------- F/SA 12.15 07.76 ------- .050
G/S 12.20 07.79 --------- G/SA 12.30 07.86 ------- .100
H/S 12.30 07.86 --------- H/SA 12.45 07.94 ------- .150
I/S 12.50 07.97 ---------- I/SA 12.60 08.03 --------- .100
J/S 12.65 08.05 --------- J/SA 12.75 08.11 --------- .100
K/S 12.85 08.18 --------- K/SA 12.95 08.22 -------- .100
L/S 13.00 08.26 --------- L/SA 13.00 08.26 --------- .000
M/S 13.15 08.33 -------- M/SA 13.15 08.33 ---------.000
N/S 13.25 08.40 -------- N/SA 13.30 08.43 --------- .050
O/S 13.40 08.48 -------- O/SA 13.45 08.51 --------- .050
P/S 13.65 08.62 -------- P/SA 13.75 08.68 ----------.100
Q/S 13.95 08.79 -------- Q/SA 14.10 08.88 ----------.150
R/S 14.25 08.96 -------- R/SA 14.35 09.02 ----------.100
T/S 14.70 09.21 --------- T/SA 14.70 09.21 ----------.000
U/S 14.95 09.34 -------- U/SA 15.15 09.45 ----------.200
V/S 15.55 09.68 -------- V/SA 15.80 09.81 ----------.250
W/S 16.70 10.35 ------- W/SA 16.95 10.51----------.250

I'll follow up with a Superstock comparrison.

[Gary Parker]

Lets see, stick cars (4 speed) automatics 3. In high gear converters slip, clutches lock up. Also,there are many more gear ratio's avalible for standards. Just my thouights. Gary

[Joe DeMarzo]

I agree with Gary, look at Top Stock and Junior Stock in D-1. Winner are usually the stick cars. Can control the starting line better (if you know clutches) and it locks up top end (check out MPH). Stick cars are more efficient

[Paul Dilcher]

Who cares ?

[Adger Smith]

The index is what the AHFS provides. For a real comparison of performance look at the records vs index vs stick & auto.
See any surprises?

[phberg]

Has anybody looked at the ratio of Stick to Auto entries at any event? If the stick has an advantage, don't you think more people would jump on that advantage. While the stick technology is much improved it still isn't as consistent as the auto. Perhaps clutchless shifting would even the playing field.
Paul Berg I/S 2664

[Roger K Fain]

Jeff,
The disparity in Super Stock is much greater, i.e. in our class SS/M 1/4 mi. index is 11.90 and SS/MA is 12.15. That's like cutting a .002 light against a .252 and getting to the finish line at the same time.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Paul Dilcher

Who cares ?

Probably the transmission manufacturer (Jerico, Liberty) the clutch manufacturer's (McLeod, Advanced, Boinifante, etc.) and maybe the stick racers that are loosing up to a 1/4 second on the index.
The point is, as I and Evan Smith stated, the spread while once warranted, is no longer neccessary. Yes, a stick car will and should MPH faster. In the end, if adjusted, nothing changes except qualifying order. And since qualifying order is based on ET and not MPH, what's the big deal?

And I should also clarify my first post on this subject. I believe electromagnetic clutch pedal releases should only be allowed in classes which allow a trans-brake. Specifically, I am referring to Superstock.

[Evan Smith]

We all know that stick cars are direct drive in high gear, giving them better mph on average, but let's not forget that automatics often kill stick cars in 60-foot and to the 330. I've seen plenty automatic small-block Stockers (E/SA-G/SA) out-60-foot the A/S-C/S cars all day long. I'd take a killer 60-foot, which will help e.t. greatly, over big mph, which doesn't hurt, but doesn't really help e.t., any day! We also have plenty of gear selection, but only a small selection that will actually work, much like the low-gear-set or non-low gear for automatics.

Evan

[LB Racing 3179]

How about in Super Stock Modified where the automatic cars get up to a 250lbs. weight break and run on the same index as the stick cars. Every record in Super Stock Modified is held by automatic cars.