Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS

Lynn A McCarty · 06-22-2008, 02:19 PM

We are only talking about replacing 2-3 days of very boring practice and run heads up instead. Nothing else changes, if you really dont want to put you car on "kill" it isnt required. We could do it even if NHRA isnt willing to organize it. Just line up A-Z and run-em off! No one in your class it is heads up against your index. if someone doesnt want to participate fine opt out.

NOTHING on Sunday changes, still regular eliminations with a dial in!

We could combine classes to all 1.00 weight breaks to get more matches. Every one with a same index is heads up. If not stagger the indexes. If NHRA wont stagger, we use a 5 cent CPU(pencil).

We have cars with hundreds of thousands of dollars, we ought to at least make points races more fun cause it definitely isnt for the money.

Points races and Open races might even get some crowd appeal.

Arent you guys tired of hearing, "S/SS: It ain nuttin but a bracket race". I sure am.

james schaechter · 06-22-2008, 03:17 PM

I agree. I think that some points meets should consider class elims of some sort. I realize if it was too big, it would be too much, but what if the racers had a chance to sign up and enter into a heads up class run off as a seperate deal on Friday of the meet? Pay a few bucks, race for a Wally, have random teardowns. I think the deal would have to have a caveat that there cannot be solos. That would b e the tricky part. Maybe sticks and autos, maybe racers in different classes could "grudge match" each other. Imagine if someone in HSA challenged you to a grudge match for a wally on the Friday. You race in lets say, HS. If you both agree, then pay to enter, stagger like comp and run them out. I don't know, but something to spice up the points meets and see some increased opportunity for the tracks too. The car counts are definately down and will impact us if we don't come up with the ideas that work for racers and tracks.

Michael Beard · 06-22-2008, 05:04 PM

I've advocated a similar idea for regular test n' tune events. Everybody goes down the track. May as well get the cars that run fairly close to each to run side-by-side and make more of a show out of it.

I had gone so far as to put all of the classes/indexes into a spreadsheet a couple years ago and figured out groups that could run together. Since it's just for fun, you could have groups with quite a few classes in them, and call them to the lanes by groups.

Didn't I hear about some division that was running time trials off the indexes last year? Sounds fun to me.

Just Observing · 06-22-2008, 05:10 PM

Div 4 runs there TT on a stagered tree off index.

Ed Wright · 06-23-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Observing

Div 4 runs there TT on a stagered tree off index.

Yep, and I like it. Just like no racing with break out, but doesn't pay anything.

Bobby DiDomenico · 06-22-2008, 10:03 PM

I have attempted to get Stk and SS Qualifying run off the handicap tree for the past few years. If you guys think the .90 classes are not exciting to watch with the throttle stop (and at Joliet we saw a few that coasted till the 330' mark before the throttle opened up again!!!) you need to skip a session and sit in the stands with all 47 spectators who stayed and watched. Wait, make that 42, since 5 fell asleep.

Just sit with the paying customers and watch them watch some of the Stocker boys kill it at the 1000' mark. The last two weekends at Joliet reinforced just how terrible of a show Stock time runs have become. And there is nothing like having a Stock class car which is going to not run all out be the last car down the track on a single. You think that is going to draw spectators and their hard earned money back to ever watch Stock Eliminator? If you do, think again! At least most of the SS cars still go all out down the track!

I'd sat at least begin using the handicap start for time runs, heck we have to wait for the slowest car anyway, why not make it interesting for the PAYING SPECTATOR!!!!!

The sand baggers? The quickest way to end it is the computer scrambles the cars for first round pairings making their sandbagging time run performance useless.

But what do I know, I'm just a guy who paid to get in and buy a burger and a coke. Why listen to me? Hm, let's see, $50 ticket, $6 burger, $6 fries, $6 beverage, walk 1-1/2 miles from your car to your seat. You don't think next time they might go see a nearby White Sox game instead and save money do you?

Don Kennedy · 06-27-2008, 02:58 PM

Lynn : I have forgotten you great version on how to do the AFHS the correct way . Could you again explain it to all of us so we can all be on the same page .

Tom P · 06-27-2008, 09:22 PM

The SS Hemi Shootouts they had a Mission for several years ran those cars all together at the end of the qualifying session. It was a good show, the classes have lots of appeal if it was marketed correctly. I think things like YouTube might help spread the appeal if the people watching can figure out where they can see it in person.

John Quinn · 06-28-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Kennedy

Lynn : I have forgotten you great version on how to do the AFHS the correct way . Could you again explain it to all of us so we can all be on the same page .

I don't remember Lynn's formula but I think it uses a bell curve. If not it should, if you put all the runs of one type of car into a bell curve the index can be the mid point of the curve. If there are several cars in the class you don't have to worry about the fast ones breaking the index too hard. If there are just a few cars of your type, you will have to protect the index the way it is now so nothing is lost.

It would work really well in Comp, they could run all out without getting those stupid index adjustments. Maybe racing can get back to the concept of running hard to win and leave driving the stripe to bracket racing where it belongs.

Tony Curcio · 06-28-2008, 11:48 AM

Lyn McCarty has been talking about this formula for several years. This is the first time I ever saw more than one person agree. It really is the way an actuary or a true statistician would go about this.

Once the formulae are entered, it takes no more effort to use it than the current system. It would, however, be a little harder for racers to know when it is time to "save" a combination by running slower at a national event.

Lyn- do you have a working spreadsheet that can be submitted as a model to the Sportsman Council?

View Poll Results: S/SS: Heads up during Practice?
Heads UP during practice (the best way)	84	74.34%
No heads up just regular practice	29	25.66%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

06-22-2008, 02:19 PM	#1
Lynn A McCarty Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Plainfield (INDY) Indiana Posts: 468 Likes: 1 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS instead of Practice? We are only talking about replacing 2-3 days of very boring practice and run heads up instead. Nothing else changes, if you really dont want to put you car on "kill" it isnt required. We could do it even if NHRA isnt willing to organize it. Just line up A-Z and run-em off! No one in your class it is heads up against your index. if someone doesnt want to participate fine opt out. NOTHING on Sunday changes, still regular eliminations with a dial in! We could combine classes to all 1.00 weight breaks to get more matches. Every one with a same index is heads up. If not stagger the indexes. If NHRA wont stagger, we use a 5 cent CPU(pencil). We have cars with hundreds of thousands of dollars, we ought to at least make points races more fun cause it definitely isnt for the money. Points races and Open races might even get some crowd appeal. Arent you guys tired of hearing, "S/SS: It ain nuttin but a bracket race". I sure am. __________________ Lynn A McCarty 3470 SS Last edited by Lynn A McCarty; 06-23-2008 at 10:55 AM.

06-22-2008, 03:17 PM	#2
james schaechter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 1,992 Likes: 1,293 Liked 1,436 Times in 299 Posts	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS I agree. I think that some points meets should consider class elims of some sort. I realize if it was too big, it would be too much, but what if the racers had a chance to sign up and enter into a heads up class run off as a seperate deal on Friday of the meet? Pay a few bucks, race for a Wally, have random teardowns. I think the deal would have to have a caveat that there cannot be solos. That would b e the tricky part. Maybe sticks and autos, maybe racers in different classes could "grudge match" each other. Imagine if someone in HSA challenged you to a grudge match for a wally on the Friday. You race in lets say, HS. If you both agree, then pay to enter, stagger like comp and run them out. I don't know, but something to spice up the points meets and see some increased opportunity for the tracks too. The car counts are definately down and will impact us if we don't come up with the ideas that work for racers and tracks. __________________ James Schaechter 3163 STK

06-22-2008, 05:04 PM	#3
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS I've advocated a similar idea for regular test n' tune events. Everybody goes down the track. May as well get the cars that run fairly close to each to run side-by-side and make more of a show out of it. I had gone so far as to put all of the classes/indexes into a spreadsheet a couple years ago and figured out groups that could run together. Since it's just for fun, you could have groups with quite a few classes in them, and call them to the lanes by groups. Didn't I hear about some division that was running time trials off the indexes last year? Sounds fun to me. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

06-22-2008, 05:10 PM	#4
Just Observing Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 138 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS Div 4 runs there TT on a stagered tree off index.

06-22-2008, 10:03 PM	#6
Bobby DiDomenico Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 924 Likes: 103 Liked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS I have attempted to get Stk and SS Qualifying run off the handicap tree for the past few years. If you guys think the .90 classes are not exciting to watch with the throttle stop (and at Joliet we saw a few that coasted till the 330' mark before the throttle opened up again!!!) you need to skip a session and sit in the stands with all 47 spectators who stayed and watched. Wait, make that 42, since 5 fell asleep. Just sit with the paying customers and watch them watch some of the Stocker boys kill it at the 1000' mark. The last two weekends at Joliet reinforced just how terrible of a show Stock time runs have become. And there is nothing like having a Stock class car which is going to not run all out be the last car down the track on a single. You think that is going to draw spectators and their hard earned money back to ever watch Stock Eliminator? If you do, think again! At least most of the SS cars still go all out down the track! I'd sat at least begin using the handicap start for time runs, heck we have to wait for the slowest car anyway, why not make it interesting for the PAYING SPECTATOR!!!!! The sand baggers? The quickest way to end it is the computer scrambles the cars for first round pairings making their sandbagging time run performance useless. But what do I know, I'm just a guy who paid to get in and buy a burger and a coke. Why listen to me? Hm, let's see, $50 ticket, $6 burger, $6 fries, $6 beverage, walk 1-1/2 miles from your car to your seat. You don't think next time they might go see a nearby White Sox game instead and save money do you?

06-27-2008, 02:58 PM	#7
Don Kennedy VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Portland TN Posts: 1,590 Likes: 3,876 Liked 902 Times in 237 Posts	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS Lynn : I have forgotten you great version on how to do the AFHS the correct way . Could you again explain it to all of us so we can all be on the same page . __________________ Don Kennedy 7701 SS Last edited by Don Kennedy; 06-27-2008 at 03:03 PM.

06-27-2008, 09:22 PM	#8
Tom P Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 707 Likes: 30 Liked 239 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS The SS Hemi Shootouts they had a Mission for several years ran those cars all together at the end of the qualifying session. It was a good show, the classes have lots of appeal if it was marketed correctly. I think things like YouTube might help spread the appeal if the people watching can figure out where they can see it in person.

06-28-2008, 11:48 AM	#10
Tony Curcio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: West Chester, PA Posts: 271 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: Vote: Heads-UP in S/SS Lyn McCarty has been talking about this formula for several years. This is the first time I ever saw more than one person agree. It really is the way an actuary or a true statistician would go about this. Once the formulae are entered, it takes no more effort to use it than the current system. It would, however, be a little harder for racers to know when it is time to "save" a combination by running slower at a national event. Lyn- do you have a working spreadsheet that can be submitted as a model to the Sportsman Council? __________________ Tony Curcio 1860 STK