Stick vs Auto

[rboyle]

Generic question but has anyone done a solid test on a stick vs auto for the same combo? Looking at a 350 Chevy Stocker combo?

[bubski]

Originally Posted by rboyle

Generic question but has anyone done a solid test on a stick vs auto for the same combo? Looking at a 350 Chevy Stocker combo?

Wow !! Bubski can hear the crickets on this one !! All indexes should be the same !! Stick or Auto!! Bubkis’s thinking!! U can spend at least the same or more on an Auto combo as a Stick !! Why shouldn’t the indexes reflect that ?? Bubski knows y !! All the .1 to .25 indexes in favor of the Autos would BUTT hurt the nice people with the Autos that are more than happy to get away with their Weak ArSe combos !!

[rboyle]

I'm asking because my auto combo is rated at 287 HP but the stick is rated at 275 HP which I think is opposite of what you are suggesting. I think. The index is only a tenth different.

[oldskool]

I know this will make LOTS of stick racers mad. But if you really wanna win some rounds & races, go with the auto.

I've run both, in Stock, and auto in lots of bracket races. Breakout style racing requires consistently good lights, as well as consistent ET's.

Now if all you wanna do is have some fun makin passes, or if you wanna build a killer heads-up car, that's different.

Yankin on the 4-speed was lots of fun. But I enjoyed winning, even more !

NO, I DIDN'T say a stick car can't win a race. They've won lots of 'em thru the years. Won a few myself.

BUT, it's my own PERSONAL opinion that you have a better chance of winning more rounds & races with an auto trans.

Opinions differ.

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by oldskool

I know this will make LOTS of stick racers mad. But if you really wanna win some rounds & races, go with the auto.

I've run both, in Stock, and auto in lots of bracket races. Breakout style racing requires consistently good lights, as well as consistent ET's.

Now if all you wanna do is have some fun makin passes, or if you wanna build a killer heads-up car, that's different.

Yankin on the 4-speed was lots of fun. But I enjoyed winning, even more !

NO, I DIDN'T say a stick car can't win a race. They've won lots of 'em thru the years. Won a few myself.

BUT, it's my own PERSONAL opinion that you have a better chance of winning more rounds & races with an auto trans.

Opinions differ.

That line of reasoning may be a bit outdated. Just like saying automatics are slower. There have been a lot of improvements on automatics, sticks and clutches that might change this old school opinion. There are more things to do in a stick car for sure and I guess with all of the legal driver aids such as auto shifts one could make the case. That being said, sticks are winning at a competitive rate compared to the number of stick cars that exist.
I am sure anyone comparing equipment from a while back or used outdated equipment would find consistent lights and ets a challenge.
I don’t think that holds water any longer if a racer takes advantage of the latest technology.

Oh and to reference the HP difference. I don’t think most of the HP hits would have taken place for automatics if the indexes were the same as stick shifts in some classes. I won’t say they all line up, but many should be combined and run off the same index in my opinion.

[oldskool]

This might help someone who is undecided, make up their mind.

There are a lot of people who post here who are retired & no longer race. So, maybe some of ya'll, who have the time & wouldn't mind doing it, could search back thru the DRC records & record the number of stick vs auto wins at nat events. DRC has over 20 year of records.

Anyone really interested could also look up the division races. I'd be interested in those figures myself, but not enuff to do the research.

"...I don’t think that holds water any longer if a racer takes advantage of the latest technology..."

Stick cars were winning races long before 21st century technology was available. Pontiac history is what I'm most familiar with. So, when I think if stick cars, I immediately think of the stick Pontiacs I remember. The Truman Fields cars come to mind. His 1st car won Stock @ Indy in '73, with him driving, & in '77 with Mike McKinney driving. Well, I assume there were plenty of auto cars entered, at both races.

I remember seeing Jack Mullins snatchin gears in his old Pontiac wagon. He won Indy in '75. Probably had to run several auto cars to do it. Also won the Sports Nats that year, IIRC. So, even with old technology, there were SOME drivers who could stick race good enuff to win races.

BUT, what percentage of races have been won by stick cars, in the last 20, 30, or even 40 years ?

Just as strictly a side note here, and only because I'm a Pontiac Freek, I figure most guys ran a stick in the '64-'66 GTO's because the only legal auto trans was the 2-speed, which some call a Super Turbine 300. I think I read that all the 2-speed only cars can now run a 3-speed. Is that correct ?

Just for numbers trivia, I checked the Stock Q-list at Indy in 2000 & 2010. Out of the 128 field, in 2000, there were 39 stick cars. In 2010, there were 26 stick cars. Gotta be reasons why MOST Stock racers choose an auto trans.

You can find all sorts of interesting info from the numbers on DRC. Some of the Indy Stock winners cut a string of lights with the worst being below .030. Most were below .020. Not many stick racers can cut 7 lights in a row, less than .030.

Here's an example: Peter Biondo's worst light was an .026, in round one. Best light .000, in the final. WOW !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

[tommy d]

Yep.

[Race Clean]

Originally Posted by oldskool

But if you really wanna win some rounds & races, go with the auto.

No one ever told that to the Waldo's,Calvert,Helms,etc.

[Rich67stang]

Rich,

My 68 428 Cobra Jet with a stick is factored @ 366HP, With an Automatic it is factored @
380. Why? because there were so many Auto cars beating the crap out of the index over the years and very few Stick cars beating their index. I am assuming this is the same for your combo.

Racing a stick is much more fun than an Auto and you can win just the same. Good racers/Drivers win regardless of stick/Auto IMO. I only switched to an Auto for now because my daughter will drive it next season. That Nova would be a fun ride as a stick. Good Luck.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Race Clean

No one ever told that to the Waldo's,Calvert,Helms,etc.

Keen, Peters, Comella, Zaskowski


It's no secret there are more automatic cars out there. Those number comparisons won't work.
I remember 2-3 stick drivers in the Top 10.That's a huge number by comparison.
Brad Z finished #2 in S/S a couple years ago. I believe he was the only stick driver in the first 200.. Does that say that he was a better driver than the first 199 automatic drivers? Can it be then said it's easier to win with a stick S/S-er? You be the judge.
Also no secret that stick cars require more drive line maintenance. Some folks are unwilling or not motivated to do that work. Some auto cars sit in the box all week long. When they come out, they're not winning anything either.

Bracket racing ; I've won brackets with 40-50 cars, where I was the only stick car on the grounds. How does that support the automatic for consistency train of thought?

Bottom line, in MY opinion.. There is not right or wrong conclusion here. It isn't easier either way. It depends on the driver . If someone is having trouble winning with a stick car and converts to an automatic, they're probably not going to win anything then either. ;-)