Junior Stock Enthusiast

kellintrans · 01-20-2016, 03:42 PM

I am posting this to gauge the level of interest in establishing a Mid-Atlantic based drag racing association for the purpose of real and affordable stock style class racing.

The criteria for racing would be based on the rules and regulations as they pertained to the Junior Stock eliminator classes of the 1960's thru the early 1970's. However, it will not just be limited to the cars of that time period, but with makes and models from 1955 thru today (with some exceptions).

The IHRA and various muscle car clubs do have a similar Pure Stock class, but it is limited to IHRA only events and/or limited as to the cars that are eligible.

The basis for this association is not for nostalgia or profit, but to recreate a true entry level class for real stock cars to compete. Ingenuity and attention to detail would take priority over money spent. Stock would literally mean stock, and it will be up to the racer to make the combination work within the given set of rules.

The NHRA/IHRA stock eliminator classes are no longer entry level, affordable, or even stock for that matter. This is not how the class was originally intended.

If there is enough interest in this type of racing, formal rules and guidelines can be drafted, index's can be set, etc...

Any input or suggestions are welcome.

Dan Fahey · 01-20-2016, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellintrans

I am posting this to gauge the level of interest in establishing a Mid-Atlantic based drag racing association for the purpose of real and affordable stock style class racing.

The criteria for racing would be based on the rules and regulations as they pertained to the Junior Stock eliminator classes of the 1960's thru the early 1970's. However, it will not just be limited to the cars of that time period, but with makes and models from 1955 thru today (with some exceptions).

The IHRA and various muscle car clubs do have a similar Pure Stock class, but it is limited to IHRA only events and/or limited as to the cars that are eligible.

The basis for this association is not for nostalgia or profit, but to recreate a true entry level class for real stock cars to compete. Ingenuity and attention to detail would take priority over money spent. Stock would literally mean stock, and it will be up to the racer to make the combination work within the given set of rules.

The NHRA/IHRA stock eliminator classes are no longer entry level, affordable, or even stock for that matter. This is not how the class was originally intended.

If there is enough interest in this type of racing, formal rules and guidelines can be drafted, index's can be set, etc...

Any input or suggestions are welcome.

I would like to help..

D

kellintrans · 01-20-2016, 05:44 PM

Thanks!! Any help or ideas are greatly appreciated. I have read your various posts, and I know your are quite enthusiastic about Junior stock racing.

Greg Gay · 01-20-2016, 05:49 PM

I think I understand where you are trying to go, but I'm not sure that the old Junior Stock rules are where you want to be. In some ways, those rules were less restrictive than what followed them. For example, I believe that Dave LeBrun's Corvette ran in the 10's as a Junior Stocker, and it was many years before a Stocker ran in the 10's under the new rules. Junior Stock disappeared after the 1970 season, and there was no Stock in 1971. The new Stock rules came out in 1972, and they were the most restrictive a that point. At first, full exhaust and no slicks were required, and even lightweight, racing wheels were not allowed, although many did appear. Next came "cut exhaust", but still through stock exhaust manifolds, and the rest of the exhaust system still had to be in place. After a year or two, narrow slicks (or a wider street tire) were allowed, and the rules slowly became more and more liberal. The 1972 cars were basically a blueprinted engine, shift kit, and rear axle gear change.

I think your class has merit, but I see that you basically have two ways to go with it: You can either go with classes, indexes, and heads up runs. Be prepared to have tear downs, as there is only one way to go faster. This will not be inexpensive. Your second option is a class that looks stock, possibly even "sounds' stock (cam restrictions), but has only one class, everyone dials in, and each individual's cost is what they want it to be. This would be somewhat similar to the Factory Appearing FAST class, but with dial ins, you wouldn't have to be that fast. However, then you might need to put a minimum dial in in place, so as to keep absolutely pure stock cars from driving in off the street, and entering.

Dan Fahey · 01-20-2016, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellintrans

Thanks!! Any help or ideas are greatly appreciated. I have read your various posts, and I know your are quite enthusiastic about Junior stock racing.

Thanks..!
IMHO... Pure Stock and PureStockDrags and FAST Classes come close to what you are asking.

The Limiting things should be Full Exhaust, Headers allowed, Limited Valve Spring (IHRA), which limits the Cam, (IHRA), register-able and legal to drive on the road.

IHRA Pure Stock is so close to what you are asking about.
A and Pure Stock may require Roll Bars for the 11.49 et rule.

Here a Crate Engine replacement for Pure Stock would help some of the older cars.
Just got to limit which ones. Most engines did not have much cam lift.
Such as installing an early 302 4bbl in an early Mustang where the 289 maybe tough to find.

Pure Stock or Jr. Stock should not have super stressed Stocker engines.

Should be able to convert many of the collectable cars with simple upgradable bolt on mods for safety. Such as front disk brakes.

For Decades drove my car to many a bracket race and since 2010 IHRA Pure Stock until mid last year.

D

kellintrans · 01-20-2016, 07:31 PM

I think a minimum dial will have to be in place in any scenario. Otherwise, it is just a regular bracket race.

The Pure Stock Muscle Car drag race has an interesting format (rules and tech), but in this case allow more than just factory muscle cars to participate. In this case, the rules for this class could be more liberal regarding slicks, open exhaust, gear ratio changes, etc.

As far as tear downs, any competitor questioning the legality of another car would have to put up a predetermined amount of money that would be refunded if violations are found, or paid to the racer being torn down if they are legal.The car could also be torn down if there is a suspicion of blatant cheating by the organizers. Otherwise, a gentlemen's agreement could be in place. Anyone found cheating would be fined and/or banned from competing.

Rich Biebel · 01-20-2016, 07:31 PM

In 1970.....Lebruns A/S'er ran around 11.40 at maybe 120 on 7" tires....at a stocker event at Island....We raced him with our H/S Chevy II and my driver fouled and both cars went .05 under the record. It's a vivid memory as I was standing right behind the starting line and it was 3rd or 4th rd....
I am just not sure whether his car was a Camaro or Corvette....just to long ago.....and he had numerous cars over the years....

I don't know if they ever ran in the 10's but it's possible.

Pistons and rings were less restrictive on the rules than the later version of stock..
Regrind cams were widely used...

Highly likely people were getting very creative even though getting caught was WAY more likely back then....

kellintrans · 01-20-2016, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Thanks..!
IMHO... Pure Stock and PureStockDrags and FAST Classes come close to what you are asking.

The Limiting things should be Full Exhaust, Headers allowed, Limited Valve Spring (IHRA), which limits the Cam, (IHRA), register-able and legal to drive on the road.

IHRA Pure Stock is so close to what you are asking about.
A and Pure Stock may require Roll Bars for the 11.49 et rule.

Here a Crate Engine replacement for Pure Stock would help some of the older cars.
Just got to limit which ones. Most engines did not have much cam lift.
Such as installing an early 302 4bbl in an early Mustang where the 289 maybe tough to find.

Pure Stock or Jr. Stock should not have super stressed Stocker engines.

Should be able to convert many of the collectable cars with simple upgradable bolt on mods for safety. Such as front disk brakes.

For Decades drove my car to many a bracket race and since 2010 IHRA Pure Stock until mid last year.

D

Dan,

I agree about IHRA Pure stock. I am building a car to compete, hopefully, someday. It is just an IHRA class, though, and the cars eligible are pretty limited. I guess I am looking to do something similar to what MANDRA does, but solely for a Pure Stock style vehicle with index's, weight breaks, etc..

Dan Fahey · 01-20-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

In 1970.....Lebruns A/S'er ran around 11.40 at maybe 120 on 7" tires....at a stocker event at Island....We raced him with our H/S Chevy II and my driver fouled and both cars went .05 under the record. It's a vivid memory as I was standing right behind the starting line and it was 3rd or 4th rd....
I am just not sure whether his car was a Camaro or Corvette....just to long ago.....and he had numerous cars over the years....

I don't know if they ever ran in the 10's but it's possible.

Pistons and rings were less restrictive on the rules than the later version of stock..
Regrind cams were widely used...

Highly likely people were getting very creative even though getting caught was WAY more likely back then....

That was excellent then.
Today he would run close to a second faster.
Better tires, track surface, suspension, low drag rings, converters.
IHRA allowing a very small wag on the springs.

Dick Butler · 01-20-2016, 08:48 PM

I agree with the idea of a cheap entry point.
The old Stock rules were good at the time but with the many, many motors and cars now you want to include it would be impossible with rated HP figures.
I suggest trying to start a basic LB/cubic inch like MOD. Eliminates factoring, dial ins, break outs unless there are multiple classes.
Levels the field day one with no bogus hp winners.

01-20-2016, 03:42 PM	#1
kellintrans Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Middletown, DE Posts: 30 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Junior Stock Enthusiast I am posting this to gauge the level of interest in establishing a Mid-Atlantic based drag racing association for the purpose of real and affordable stock style class racing. The criteria for racing would be based on the rules and regulations as they pertained to the Junior Stock eliminator classes of the 1960's thru the early 1970's. However, it will not just be limited to the cars of that time period, but with makes and models from 1955 thru today (with some exceptions). The IHRA and various muscle car clubs do have a similar Pure Stock class, but it is limited to IHRA only events and/or limited as to the cars that are eligible. The basis for this association is not for nostalgia or profit, but to recreate a true entry level class for real stock cars to compete. Ingenuity and attention to detail would take priority over money spent. Stock would literally mean stock, and it will be up to the racer to make the combination work within the given set of rules. The NHRA/IHRA stock eliminator classes are no longer entry level, affordable, or even stock for that matter. This is not how the class was originally intended. If there is enough interest in this type of racing, formal rules and guidelines can be drafted, index's can be set, etc... Any input or suggestions are welcome.

01-20-2016, 05:44 PM	#3
kellintrans Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Middletown, DE Posts: 30 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Junior Stock Enthusiast Thanks!! Any help or ideas are greatly appreciated. I have read your various posts, and I know your are quite enthusiastic about Junior stock racing.

01-20-2016, 05:49 PM	#4
Greg Gay Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vermont Posts: 385 Likes: 21 Liked 283 Times in 70 Posts	Re: Junior Stock Enthusiast I think I understand where you are trying to go, but I'm not sure that the old Junior Stock rules are where you want to be. In some ways, those rules were less restrictive than what followed them. For example, I believe that Dave LeBrun's Corvette ran in the 10's as a Junior Stocker, and it was many years before a Stocker ran in the 10's under the new rules. Junior Stock disappeared after the 1970 season, and there was no Stock in 1971. The new Stock rules came out in 1972, and they were the most restrictive a that point. At first, full exhaust and no slicks were required, and even lightweight, racing wheels were not allowed, although many did appear. Next came "cut exhaust", but still through stock exhaust manifolds, and the rest of the exhaust system still had to be in place. After a year or two, narrow slicks (or a wider street tire) were allowed, and the rules slowly became more and more liberal. The 1972 cars were basically a blueprinted engine, shift kit, and rear axle gear change. I think your class has merit, but I see that you basically have two ways to go with it: You can either go with classes, indexes, and heads up runs. Be prepared to have tear downs, as there is only one way to go faster. This will not be inexpensive. Your second option is a class that looks stock, possibly even "sounds' stock (cam restrictions), but has only one class, everyone dials in, and each individual's cost is what they want it to be. This would be somewhat similar to the Factory Appearing FAST class, but with dial ins, you wouldn't have to be that fast. However, then you might need to put a minimum dial in in place, so as to keep absolutely pure stock cars from driving in off the street, and entering.

01-20-2016, 07:31 PM	#6
kellintrans Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Middletown, DE Posts: 30 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Junior Stock Enthusiast I think a minimum dial will have to be in place in any scenario. Otherwise, it is just a regular bracket race. The Pure Stock Muscle Car drag race has an interesting format (rules and tech), but in this case allow more than just factory muscle cars to participate. In this case, the rules for this class could be more liberal regarding slicks, open exhaust, gear ratio changes, etc. As far as tear downs, any competitor questioning the legality of another car would have to put up a predetermined amount of money that would be refunded if violations are found, or paid to the racer being torn down if they are legal.The car could also be torn down if there is a suspicion of blatant cheating by the organizers. Otherwise, a gentlemen's agreement could be in place. Anyone found cheating would be fined and/or banned from competing.

01-20-2016, 07:31 PM	#7
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: Junior Stock Enthusiast In 1970.....Lebruns A/S'er ran around 11.40 at maybe 120 on 7" tires....at a stocker event at Island....We raced him with our H/S Chevy II and my driver fouled and both cars went .05 under the record. It's a vivid memory as I was standing right behind the starting line and it was 3rd or 4th rd.... I am just not sure whether his car was a Camaro or Corvette....just to long ago.....and he had numerous cars over the years.... I don't know if they ever ran in the 10's but it's possible. Pistons and rings were less restrictive on the rules than the later version of stock.. Regrind cams were widely used... Highly likely people were getting very creative even though getting caught was WAY more likely back then.... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

01-20-2016, 08:48 PM	#10
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Junior Stock Enthusiast I agree with the idea of a cheap entry point. The old Stock rules were good at the time but with the many, many motors and cars now you want to include it would be impossible with rated HP figures. I suggest trying to start a basic LB/cubic inch like MOD. Eliminates factoring, dial ins, break outs unless there are multiple classes. Levels the field day one with no bogus hp winners.