Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy

SS/GSI · 08-11-2010, 07:50 PM

Do you believe that NHRA, as well as their TECHs, will finally pull some pans off and start weighing the crankshafts in teardown @ Indy. Does someone need to explain to NHRA how people are constantly going faster even though their combinations keep getting horsepower at every review period. Its called rotating mass. Now NHRA can realize why the engine builders are strugling to stay alive. Nobody is willing to pay for R&D and knowledge because its easier and cheaper to cheat. Even if you do get caught, you recieve nothing but a slap on the wrist, instead of the year off most offences should be given.

Bob Shaw · 08-11-2010, 08:03 PM

Who are you?

Alan Roehrich · 08-11-2010, 08:06 PM

Stock and Super Stock have rod and piston assembly weights. While there will be some variation depending on where the weight is exactly in a rod and piston assembly, that weight gives you a reasonably close approximation of the bob weight and thereby the counterweight. The rules on crankshafts and how they may be modified will then give you a close enough approximation on the weight of the crankshaft.

If you cannot "gun drill" journals, or "pendulum cut" the counterweights, and you have a given rod/piston assembly weight, you'll have reasonable control of crankshaft weight without removing the crankshafts. The reason being, if you cannot pendulum cut the counterweights, you're stuck with the heavier full profile counterweights, and that's where a lot of the weight is. Especially if you cannot gun drill the journals.

If you get caught with profiled or pendulum cut counterweights in Stock, or the traditional Super Stock classes, you will be disqualified, and you will be suspended. It has happened within the past couple of years. There have also been suspensions for violations of the assembly weight rules.

And no, I don't think they'll force people to pull their engine out and remove their crankshaft to weigh it.

RPinoski1 · 08-11-2010, 10:54 PM

HOPE THIS HELPS:

NHRA clarifies crankshaft rules in Super Stock

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4/18/2007

The Tech Department has issued a list of frequently asked questions and answers on the subject of crankshaft modifications in Super Stock and Super Stock GT. As with any category, engine builders in Super Stock are constantly looking at smaller and smaller details in their quest for horsepower, necessitating periodic clarifications or interpretations of the text contained in the NHRA Rulebook. Input from NHRA Technical Inspectors, engine builders, competitors and manufacturers was used to determine the correct and current answers to these frequently asked questions, and to better clarify NHRA's position on what is and what is not acceptable. The following information pertains to Super Stock (Section 6A) and Super Stock GT (Section 6B) ONLY. For questions and answers on other classes or categories, consult the 2007 NHRA Rulebook or contact NHRA Technical Services headquarters.

1. Can the mains be gun drilled? YES

2. Can the rod journals be gun drilled? YES

3. Can the counterweight be turned down in radius for balancing purposes? YES

4. Can the counterweight be narrowed? NO

5. Can the counterweights be pendulum cut to remove weight? NO

6. Can the leading edge or trailing edge of the counterweight be radiused or bull nosed? YES, because there are OEM cranks that are made in this configuration. BUT, knife edging the leading or trailing edge of a counterweight is prohibited.

7. Can the rod journals and main journals be any size? YES

8. Can a billet crank be used? NO

9. Can a forged crank be polished? NO. The rules state that crankshafts must retain OEM configuration. If a polished crank and a billet crank were set side by side you could not tell the difference by just visual inspection.

10. Can additional oil holes to the main and/or rod journals be added? YES

11. Can additional weight, such as heavy mallory, be installed in the counterweights? YES, BUT only in amounts relative to a "normal balance job". A normal balance job on a Super Stock engine such as a SBC 350 may involve turning down the counterweights to balance up with the "lighter than stock" piston/pin/rod assembly. A normal balance job on a Super Stock engine such as a SBC 400 that is internally balanced may involve installation of mallory to offset the piston/pin/rod assembly. If mallory metal is used, it may mean too much was taken off the crank. So a small amount of mallory is ok for "normal balancing purposes". Otherwise, mallory metal means the counterweights were turned too much, beyond that necessary for a "normal balance job", and would be grounds for disqualification.

12. Is there a method to find out if a particular mfg crank is an accepted part? Contact Technical Services in Glendora. If you have a crankshaft that you would like to have accepted, send a link, catalog, or other information to Jim Skelly in Glendora.

08-11-2010, 11:39 PM

P

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPinoski1

HOPE THIS HELPS:

NHRA clarifies crankshaft rules in Super Stock

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4/18/2007

The Tech Department has issued a list of frequently asked questions and answers on the subject of crankshaft modifications in Super Stock and Super Stock GT. As with any category, engine builders in Super Stock are constantly looking at smaller and smaller details in their quest for horsepower, necessitating periodic clarifications or interpretations of the text contained in the NHRA Rulebook. Input from NHRA Technical Inspectors, engine builders, competitors and manufacturers was used to determine the correct and current answers to these frequently asked questions, and to better clarify NHRA's position on what is and what is not acceptable. The following information pertains to Super Stock (Section 6A) and Super Stock GT (Section 6B) ONLY. For questions and answers on other classes or categories, consult the 2007 NHRA Rulebook or contact NHRA Technical Services headquarters.

1. Can the mains be gun drilled? YES

2. Can the rod journals be gun drilled? YES

3. Can the counterweight be turned down in radius for balancing purposes? YES

4. Can the counterweight be narrowed? NO

5. Can the counterweights be pendulum cut to remove weight? NO

6. Can the leading edge or trailing edge of the counterweight be radiused or bull nosed? YES, because there are OEM cranks that are made in this configuration. BUT, knife edging the leading or trailing edge of a counterweight is prohibited.

7. Can the rod journals and main journals be any size? YES

8. Can a billet crank be used? NO

9. Can a forged crank be polished? NO. The rules state that crankshafts must retain OEM configuration. If a polished crank and a billet crank were set side by side you could not tell the difference by just visual inspection.

10. Can additional oil holes to the main and/or rod journals be added? YES

11. Can additional weight, such as heavy mallory, be installed in the counterweights? YES, BUT only in amounts relative to a "normal balance job". A normal balance job on a Super Stock engine such as a SBC 350 may involve turning down the counterweights to balance up with the "lighter than stock" piston/pin/rod assembly. A normal balance job on a Super Stock engine such as a SBC 400 that is internally balanced may involve installation of mallory to offset the piston/pin/rod assembly. If mallory metal is used, it may mean too much was taken off the crank. So a small amount of mallory is ok for "normal balancing purposes". Otherwise, mallory metal means the counterweights were turned too much, beyond that necessary for a "normal balance job", and would be grounds for disqualification.

12. Is there a method to find out if a particular mfg crank is an accepted part? Contact Technical Services in Glendora. If you have a crankshaft that you would like to have accepted, send a link, catalog, or other information to Jim Skelly in Glendora.

Ohhhhh! Buddy! Looks like we need to lighten up a crank! Wish these were stock rules....

Ed Carpenter · 08-12-2010, 01:20 AM

Even if you do get caught, you recieve nothing but a slap on the wrist, instead of the year off most offences should be given.

Bo Kenney would disagree with that statement.

SS/GSI · 08-12-2010, 03:47 PM

I have to say I have never seen people not understand or comprehend such direct and simplistic threads. As for those who would like to know who I am, NOYFB, all you need to know is that I an active NHRA team owner in the above mentioned classes. As for those who think that cutting and copying the rulebook is a response to this tread, FYI, I own one and I have read it many times. The thread was posted to raise awareness that the rules might be followed; however accessiveness of these allowances are taking place and are making the cranks well below, I repeat, well below "stock" weight. As for the comment about Bo Kenny, trust me when I say that "they" were out to get him personally, and if it wouldn't have been the crank, they would have tore that beautiful car to shreads in order to get him kicked out. Bo has been a longtime racer and I believe he was treated unfair compared to other infractions I have eyewitnessed.

Ed Fernandez · 08-12-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Shaw

Who are you?

Bob,how dare you ask one of our No Names Their name?
Whens the last time anybody removed a pan?Has NHRA bought any new engine hoist lately?The last guy refused saying the one they supplied wasn't capable of doing the job.Looks like the nuts running the asylum

Bob Bender · 08-12-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Bob,how dare you ask one of our No Names Their name?
Whens the last time anybody removed a pan?Did NHRA buy any new engine hoist lately?The last guy refused saying the one they supplied wasn't capable of doing the job.Looks like the nuts running the asylum

Who in the HELL is this guy ?????????????

Ed Fernandez · 08-12-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bender

Who in the HELL is this guy ?????????????

Bobby,calm down old fella........................................

08-11-2010, 07:50 PM	#1
SS/GSI Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 292 Likes: 79 Liked 759 Times in 109 Posts	Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy Do you believe that NHRA, as well as their TECHs, will finally pull some pans off and start weighing the crankshafts in teardown @ Indy. Does someone need to explain to NHRA how people are constantly going faster even though their combinations keep getting horsepower at every review period. Its called rotating mass. Now NHRA can realize why the engine builders are strugling to stay alive. Nobody is willing to pay for R&D and knowledge because its easier and cheaper to cheat. Even if you do get caught, you recieve nothing but a slap on the wrist, instead of the year off most offences should be given.

08-11-2010, 08:03 PM	#2
Bob Shaw Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sedalia, Mo Posts: 436 Likes: 325 Liked 316 Times in 61 Posts	Re: Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy Who are you? __________________ Bob Shaw V/SA 515

08-11-2010, 08:06 PM	#3
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,106 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Re: Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy Stock and Super Stock have rod and piston assembly weights. While there will be some variation depending on where the weight is exactly in a rod and piston assembly, that weight gives you a reasonably close approximation of the bob weight and thereby the counterweight. The rules on crankshafts and how they may be modified will then give you a close enough approximation on the weight of the crankshaft. If you cannot "gun drill" journals, or "pendulum cut" the counterweights, and you have a given rod/piston assembly weight, you'll have reasonable control of crankshaft weight without removing the crankshafts. The reason being, if you cannot pendulum cut the counterweights, you're stuck with the heavier full profile counterweights, and that's where a lot of the weight is. Especially if you cannot gun drill the journals. If you get caught with profiled or pendulum cut counterweights in Stock, or the traditional Super Stock classes, you will be disqualified, and you will be suspended. It has happened within the past couple of years. There have also been suspensions for violations of the assembly weight rules. And no, I don't think they'll force people to pull their engine out and remove their crankshaft to weigh it. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

08-11-2010, 10:54 PM	#4
RPinoski1 Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: PLACERVILLE, CA Posts: 182 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy HOPE THIS HELPS: NHRA clarifies crankshaft rules in Super Stock -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4/18/2007 The Tech Department has issued a list of frequently asked questions and answers on the subject of crankshaft modifications in Super Stock and Super Stock GT. As with any category, engine builders in Super Stock are constantly looking at smaller and smaller details in their quest for horsepower, necessitating periodic clarifications or interpretations of the text contained in the NHRA Rulebook. Input from NHRA Technical Inspectors, engine builders, competitors and manufacturers was used to determine the correct and current answers to these frequently asked questions, and to better clarify NHRA's position on what is and what is not acceptable. The following information pertains to Super Stock (Section 6A) and Super Stock GT (Section 6B) ONLY. For questions and answers on other classes or categories, consult the 2007 NHRA Rulebook or contact NHRA Technical Services headquarters. 1. Can the mains be gun drilled? YES 2. Can the rod journals be gun drilled? YES 3. Can the counterweight be turned down in radius for balancing purposes? YES 4. Can the counterweight be narrowed? NO 5. Can the counterweights be pendulum cut to remove weight? NO 6. Can the leading edge or trailing edge of the counterweight be radiused or bull nosed? YES, because there are OEM cranks that are made in this configuration. BUT, knife edging the leading or trailing edge of a counterweight is prohibited. 7. Can the rod journals and main journals be any size? YES 8. Can a billet crank be used? NO 9. Can a forged crank be polished? NO. The rules state that crankshafts must retain OEM configuration. If a polished crank and a billet crank were set side by side you could not tell the difference by just visual inspection. 10. Can additional oil holes to the main and/or rod journals be added? YES 11. Can additional weight, such as heavy mallory, be installed in the counterweights? YES, BUT only in amounts relative to a "normal balance job". A normal balance job on a Super Stock engine such as a SBC 350 may involve turning down the counterweights to balance up with the "lighter than stock" piston/pin/rod assembly. A normal balance job on a Super Stock engine such as a SBC 400 that is internally balanced may involve installation of mallory to offset the piston/pin/rod assembly. If mallory metal is used, it may mean too much was taken off the crank. So a small amount of mallory is ok for "normal balancing purposes". Otherwise, mallory metal means the counterweights were turned too much, beyond that necessary for a "normal balance job", and would be grounds for disqualification. 12. Is there a method to find out if a particular mfg crank is an accepted part? Contact Technical Services in Glendora. If you have a crankshaft that you would like to have accepted, send a link, catalog, or other information to Jim Skelly in Glendora.

08-12-2010, 01:20 AM	#6
Ed Carpenter Live Reporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dripping Springs, Tx Posts: 2,709 Likes: 186 Liked 520 Times in 132 Posts	Re: Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy Even if you do get caught, you recieve nothing but a slap on the wrist, instead of the year off most offences should be given. Bo Kenney would disagree with that statement. __________________ Ed Carpenter 2005 Chevy Cobalt A/SM Race Engine Development

08-12-2010, 03:47 PM	#7
SS/GSI Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 292 Likes: 79 Liked 759 Times in 109 Posts	Re: Stock/Super Stock Teardown @ Indy I have to say I have never seen people not understand or comprehend such direct and simplistic threads. As for those who would like to know who I am, NOYFB, all you need to know is that I an active NHRA team owner in the above mentioned classes. As for those who think that cutting and copying the rulebook is a response to this tread, FYI, I own one and I have read it many times. The thread was posted to raise awareness that the rules might be followed; however accessiveness of these allowances are taking place and are making the cranks well below, I repeat, well below "stock" weight. As for the comment about Bo Kenny, trust me when I say that "they" were out to get him personally, and if it wouldn't have been the crank, they would have tore that beautiful car to shreads in order to get him kicked out. Bo has been a longtime racer and I believe he was treated unfair compared to other infractions I have eyewitnessed.