index lowering

[1347]

Originally Posted by Cglrcng

Now, since the suggested change(s), is not based on individual combo real life performance data throughout the category down to each class and each indiv. combo, let me throw out an equally crazy idea...institute the changes while allowing any class and any combo the choice to dial (using the trusty shoe polish bottle), above their index an equal
amount in all cases except an in class heads up race, and I will withdraw all my complaints already stated.

Sounds crazy right? Just as crazy as the original proposal to me. But, I am all for it. I cannot dial up...but you are attempting to magically dial me down and possibly out of competition currently.

I have said everything there is to say here (to plead my particular case as a minority class member and outlier I fully realize), and still no poll I have seen or
been notified of yet to be found to
participate in officially by NHRA.

Worse yet, nobody here has yet named a single name on who to contact to be heard officially before any vote is conducted concerning the suggested changes. Minority vs. Minority 2024, how will it all shake out for 2025?

Leave it alone or change it big for 1 or both, everyone will be affected if it is 1 blanket change for all in both good and bad ways. The AHFS was supposed to be a cure all. It was evidently just a bill of goods sold that promised all & settled nothing due to fear of a tiny bit of weight added to one end of the spectrum and a lot to the other.

We live in a data driven and ruled society and age, let the real life past performance data drive the changes and not the whim or votes of human lobbyists drive the proposed and instituted changes, in a real life supposed "performance based racing category!" Then, review every class and every combo (one-by-one as requested and when properly requested in accordance with existing rules, instead of waving hands and saying "you do not qualify, it is a moot subject" to get the data corrected. And if it is corrected, and it is real life past performance based, then take the time to explain why, who, and when. And look at any and all evidence presented and available before making a final decision.

I will gladly pay any required costs (T & M basis), incurred to do that at least once and if it gets it right once and for all...as it would be a lot cheaper than the current alternative.

BTW fast guys...I am the slowest guy in the slowest class in the category, but there is also at least 3 in my class that have raced at Indy and shown that they can run equally as fast (index vs index), (2 K brothers and a very fast yellow slow car can all scream at Indy and have shown so recently), as almost any of the big dogs can when no AHFS is on, and when your indexes are dropped, they get
to show their stuff more often and regularly too, unintended results may just rear their heads when they do, if you give them the same index drop. And that is who I am thrashing to catch up to is others within my own class that are so far ahead already (as mis-matched as we are in our combos), that I don't know if I have enough years left on the planet to even catch up to if I work 24/7/365
on my stuff and spend a fortune to catch.

You need to contact your division rep

[Andy Friar]

Originally Posted by AveryMcLawhorn

Note my data is not absolute and missing some runs and events. But should give a good overall perspective on the percentage of runs. In my data I have the following information.

Total Class and Elimination Runs: 4179 runs
Total Elimination Runs: 3732 runs
Total Class Runs: 447 Runs
Total Heads Up Eliminations: 58 Runs or 29 Heads Up Matches

Not a lot of you think about it. I am sure there are people out there with better data than I but this gives a good perspective for super stock.

Huge thanks!! That is indeed a small % of total runs. Gives an interesting perspective IMO.

[Cglrcng]

I do know Billy and the install and termination of the harness yet to be completed has (with some of the parts being given/traded to me...TY Greg Hogue)...upwards of about 3K in materials, and a ton of research and personal labor because nobody has an off the shelf just go buy it solution, just to attempt to equalize my turtle (still unproven if it does, and we shall soon see if it does), from track-to-track lean it out enough so elevation tracks allows me to use the tech avail. to go faster at them.

At -.126 under (BUT, still competitive and still willing to face another in a class race too, I am happy to be in the show, I am still far from satisfied, will still try to find that ellusive measly 10 more HP legally, but the across the board
Index drop proposal sends me away to just bracket race a class car and takes
me completely out of the show at
present.

And I thank you for listening and explaining it better than I have as I felt like I was just howling into the wind. It was making me wonder if I should just stop on the Holley ECU install and sell it before my first fire up. I cannot afford to just waste 3K at this point if the across the board 3 tenths change went into effect and put me above index.

If all our theory works out to reality in the end...those are BIG IF'S, and huge learning curves, that are going to still need a bunch of dyno time to get sorted out too raising the costs incrementally much higher still I may turn a slow just barely there car into a mid field qualifyer, instead of the near bottom rock it is now, but...I need and am a realist, I will see that when it happens and need to deal with reality.

I cannot pay entry fees and associated costs or attend events knowing in advance I risk not running the index at with the car not broke and running perfect. That currently leaves only Pomona or a sea level track. Not many of those left on the left coast. And I can attest finding 10 Hp (while currently penalized 6Hp for no known reason...at present), is expensive. I am already out classed, this proposal of change throws me out of category if it goes into effect.

So there is nothing I can do but yell loud and attempt (and pray to be heard and actually considered), to be heard at this
point in time. The whole thing was a shock to me as I was in process of installing my new Terminator X in the pits at Las Vegas Saturday and Sunday.

It stopped my progress Saturday night at 11:00 PM to lobby after I saw this thread, as I must deal in reality not wishes and maybe theory, packed up the car, put it back in storage 10 miles from the track (did not complete the installation), drove the 100 miles home to argue my case here and at least maybe be heard out as to why I am so against the proposal.

My plan currently is to still finish it before our last bracket bash of the season, test it with shoe polish racing, get it in learn mode on a base tune, then bring the car home and arrange some dyno time to get it close, and myself learning about tap-tap laptop tuning. And as everyone knows that is a real learning process that isn't instantly real world easy.

This would be 2 steps forward possibly 30 steps back without any index drop, but totally eliminated with one. JUST TOTALLY PRICED OUT I will call it.

[Mike Pearson]

Our D2 SCRAC rep reported that the D2 vote was strongly in favor of no change to the index's.

[Herbie Null]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

Our D2 SCRAC rep reported that the D2 vote was strongly in favor of no change to the index's.

I hear the same results for all divisions Mike.

[dragracerray]

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;705437]WOW! And we could call it "Junior Stock"! What a concept!
/QUOTE]

Billy I have heard Junior stock mentioned here in the past but I have not been in Stock very long so I know nothing of it. Could you explain how it worked and what was wrong with the concept for us newbies?

Did it have at least one combination where you could buy a cheap car and be under the index?

Ray

[Mark Yacavone]

[QUOTE=dragracerray;705471]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

WOW! And we could call it "Junior Stock"! What a concept!
/QUOTE]

Billy I have heard Junior stock mentioned here in the past but I have not been in Stock very long so I know nothing of it. Could you explain how it worked and what was wrong with the concept for us newbies?

Did it have at least one combination where you could buy a cheap car and be under the index?

Ray

Junior Stock was an NHRA eliminator, from about 1965 to 1971.
The idea was for home built, backyard cars to be raced on a part time basis.
The top classes of SS , down through A/Stock, were being dominated by Jenkins, Sox, Booth, Vanke, and various dealer and factory sponsored rides.
Jr.Stock was handicapped by the national records though. If there was any soft classes, they usually didn't last very long! It soon became just as sophisticated as their SS big brothers.

National event finals were flat out and a lot of them became the new national record.

Also holding a national record was a big deal, where points were given out for ET and /or MPH.
A lot of the popular class records got beat down at the fast tracks such as Cecil County , Fremont, etc.
If you could run a few tenths off the record at your local track in the summertime, you had a good chance of winning some pocket money.... all the while, running flat out to the finish line.

I'm sure someone will pick it up from here, as to Jr.Stk 's demise

****
This thread was starting quite a few years back, by Mr. William Cole, who's still out there snapping and posting pics here on C/R

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-stock.201085/

[Pete Lanciers]

All of us are painfully aware of combinations that are absurdly, preposterously factored!!! The administration and management of current AHFS policy has done little to address those inequities in spite of the assurances we’ve received through the years and in some cases has even exacerbated some by taking off additional horsepower.

Raising the index floor across the board by two tenths may somewhat camouflage combinations allowed to run in the wrong class. However it will do nothing to level the playing field, this can only be accomplished by factoring combinations solely on the HP potential of each accepted engine. NHRA Tech have the courage to take the problem head on, this current proposal will only hurt entry level participation when we should be doing everything in our power to encourage it.

My vote: Not only No, but F? NO!!!

[Bob Sherwood]

Originally Posted by J.R. Haddad

1320, I love Truth and Facts, when I hear them. Based on your level of
credibility on this and other forums, I'm not sure I am hearing them.
Now, unlike others on this forum, I won't engage in a battle of wits with
those that are under equipped. Now, what part of the Truth and Facts
don't you like.

J.R.

Thank you JR for being so eloquent with someone so ignorant.- His response time is a mere handful of minutes-is he obsessed with getting his opinion out there ? I understand why he doesn't use his name now that someone jogged my memory-Ed Bigley -what was it that he did to gather so much notoriety ??

[bigshow2966]

I recall his charming personality got him booted off Yellowbullet, and that's an accomplishment.