Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

SECTION 12A: SUPER STOCK, BRAKES & SUSPENSION: 3, STEERING, (Page 6) (10/3/2022)
Aftermarket OEM replacement gear box permitted. SS/AH rack & pinion steering permitted. General Regulations 3:3.

My buddy races a 60 vette in modified. If they approved R&P for modified I could understand but.... Turning SS/AH into comp cars more than Super STOCK! SMH.....

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

AMEN! Get the draglink out of the motor. Thank you NHRA. Phish

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Wait! I thought it was a safety issue??!!

10hp for $5k.... Sounds like a good idea to grow the class!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

John,
Will we see the Corvette this year?

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

I sure hope so Mike. Waiting on pistons right now. Unbelievable delays with part supplies but all going according to plan otherwise. Sure wish I could put a rack in the corvette as the steering linkage hugs the ground and the pan.

That is sort of my point here. If I am worried about parts exiting the pan and taking out the steering linkage I have bigger issues than a rule change to a rack and pinion. I see the rule change as Hp - losing center link through the pan, Better header clearance on drivers side and once one of the top guys do it, they all need to. Rack and pinion at chassis shop $, New stainless headers on drivers side $$, new oil pan $. Have fun without me and see you in the eliminator!

Maybe I'm old school but I like to keep the stock in Super Stock. The way the factory built them and adhere to the rules in the rulebook. I don't intervene on these Stock threads as I don't race a stocker but makes me sick to see the bending of the rules and that our models for class racing are unsustainable. How many kids that ARE interested in Stock and SS can afford to build a competitive car aside from an obscure combination avoiding a heads up. Good luck as our classes are dying off faster than replacements are coming in.... Rant over and see you guys in '23. Shoot-out vette and Eliminator SS/AH car lol!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Where is that Vette Shootout? I have a 65 bought new. Can we run with plug guards on it? Phish

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

If it's allowed in AH, then keep it there, since AH has the own class, they should NOT be allowed to run the eliminator, or let all the others put one in.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Do you think going to R&P is going to make any car faster? The change may make it safer. I do believe an AH car kicked the rods through the pan and locked up the steering. As far as not allowing them to race in the eliminator is a stupid comment. How many Hemi Shoot Out races are there that really count in a year? Only one that counts, Indy. Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone! Dyno

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Yes, reduced windage in pan with centerlink tube removed, better header on drivers side. 5 to 10 hp and once one of the top guys update.... who can or will leave 5 to 10 horses on the table now. At the dutch the 4 cars in the semi's were almost identical. All had a shot at winning and was a great race!

My street Hemi has same centerlink going through pan as do a lot of other SS cars. My Corvette has centerlink hugging pan where if a rod comes out could do the same thing. If its safety from a rod taking it out, lets legalize aluminum rods.....

Brian, I agree 100% but really think no SS car should have a R&P besides front conversions or cars that came from factory with them.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Maybe better get rid of those pesky front torsion bars at the same time ! Coil overs, for safety, of course. A guy could bump his head on those dangerous torsion bars while installing the headers.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

SHOOT!!!! I could have put that in my letter......Great idea

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Mission accomplished.... Real purpose of this thread was to see where NHRA came up with this idea. I felt NHRA should've questioned the top SS/AH cars or builders and yes Stephen is one of them. I know NHRA never contacted Robesonia

So NHRA made a decision from a top AH racer that publicly has his car for sale for at least the last 2 years who is trying to leave the class?!!

$5k +/- update expense for "safety". I do want to know if the Spyphish car will be updated prior to the sale or sale price reduced for the new buyer. Asking for a friend

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

This rule change is way overdue. Probably been ten years or so they wanted the update.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

You were a big part of making it happen. Thank You!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Join the convo so you can comment on the subject.

https://youtu.be/PiVdjBAxh_A

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

squeaky wheel gets the grease as always....rules creep at its finest.....if u guys want pro stockers im sure the waters fine over there...oh i forgot u want to be a big phish in a little sea

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Everyone cries "death wobble". How many AH cars have that shake? How much ET do you think that would scrub? Not all the AH cars do this and I believe the scrub is negligible as at the top of low gear thees very little weight on the front tires. In SS/CA my Street Hemi has run almost 150 and no wheel wobble, my steering box is not ground on for header clearance and there is a brace supporting the top of the steering box. This is 155 lbs more than AH. I saw one steering box break with the wobble and there was very little left of it where it broke- ground on heavily for header clearance and no brace up top. Replaced with a cast iron stock style box and believe it is still in car and running over 160.

My big argument against this is this:

1) It is not inline with the Bible (Rulebook) here. A super Stock car uses stock components massaged to a higher level. We start throwing away stock components and pretty soon Super Stock turns into either PRO Stock or Super GAS! Where does it end? We have the R&P, Struts are even safer than these rusty old control arms.... Stock is going down this path right now and it will not end well for either class

2) Once one of the top cars update and gains an advantage so will every other car that wants to play at that level. Even parked cars that are for sale or will be for sale are now worth less. I estimated $5k for updates but I believe that is low in this inflated economy. The big draw at Indy is competitive racing. This will only separate the top cars from 2nd string or slower cars. More expense and less competitive racing = lose/lose

I'm all for safety but not at the expense of the rules. Show me one recent crash in AH caused by a broken, non ground on, non braced box. And if you kick the rods and take out your steering linkage, Call MR2 for a diaper and stock forged steel centerlink .

While we're writing letters, I'm going to petition NHRA for a pro charger to bolt on the front of my Hemi. Much safer on my wallet to make 1050hp.......

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

[QUOTE=SSDA Hemi;671262]Everyone cries "death wobble". How many AH cars have that shake? How much ET do you think that would scrub? Not all the AH cars do this and I believe the scrub is negligible as at the top of low gear thees very little weight on the front tires. In SS/CA my Street Hemi has run almost 150 and no wheel wobble, my steering box is not ground on for header clearance and there is a brace supporting the top of the steering box. This is 155 lbs more than AH. I saw one steering box break with the wobble and there was very little left of it where it broke- ground on heavily for header clearance and no brace up top. Replaced with a cast iron stock style box and believe it is still in car and running over 160.

I'm sure you know the B/E body front susp is an entirely different animal than the A body with the A body being junk by comparison in stock form. I have never seen a cast iron manual steering box on any 62 and later A B or E body car, maybe there was one but I must have missed it.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Flaming River makes an iron replacement box. That’s what they used in the car that John is talking about


QUOTE I'm sure you know the B/E body front susp is an entirely different animal than the A body with the A body being junk by comparison in stock form. I have never seen a cast iron manual steering box on any 62 and later A B or E body car, maybe there was one but I must have missed it.[/QUOTE]

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Not really, my email recieved an already in the works response from NHRA. PM me your email and I will send you the whole email and responses. (Did not get Ti valves) Since the Indy sponsor has us in a special class, why not ask for a saftey upgrade. After 2 cars wrecked years back with freeze plug failure at 155ish MPH (Bullet Bob & Brooks), I had Reher pin my freeze plugs. Was kicked out of Indy for external mod to the head. Got to love me some Robesonia. There still pinned as wiser heads (pun) prevailed. And yes my car will be upgraded. When your 71 and blind in one eye from birth, come give it a go. I don't do too bad at times. Selling due to father time. The only reason I was not at Indy was the 2 year Laura storm insurance deadline of Aug. 26. Stayed home and completed insurance claim instead of spending money to get spanked by Comella.......Phish

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

While we're writing letters, I'm going to petition NHRA for a pro charger to bolt on the front of my Hemi. Much safer on my wallet to make 1050hp.......[/QUOTE]

Let me write it, I am good at it. Phish

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Phish, I hope your car doesn't sell. You crack me up and I do believe its personalities like yours that help make the SS/AH class what it is! Love it and LMAO!!

And I have no problem with you writing a letter and asking for your wishes. I am just flabbergasted NHRA makes a rule change as big as that off of 1 letter. Where was the SRAC email or maybe poll the SS/AH racers at Indy. Let majority rule. Let those that are actively participating decide their own fate. I've stated I don't like the rule change because it bastardizes the Super Stock class. Why does NHRA decide the fate of the class on 1 letter especially when it appears to lead the category down the wrong path.

The Hemi racers went down this road some years back with the Hemi head debacle. We learned then that there was no turning back and the class still suffers from the wrath of that rule controversy. This Rack and Pinion deal will be the same way, the big question is where do we draw the line and say enough is enough? Maybe the ratio of racers entering the class changes more favorably to racers leaving

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Ok they allowed the R&P but without aftermarket spindles no one is going to change! I have personally talked to several and they all said the same thing NO WAY IM CHANGING

Saying don’t let us run the eliminator is laughable! GT cars have had this **** since jump street

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

The rule change was not because of one letter from Phish. We (many SS/AH racers) requested some changes for safety reasons to NHRA 5-6 years ago. I am not aware of any requests to NHRA recently. I believe that there is an underlying rule change to the class coming, Starts with a "D"., but because the drag link goes through the oil pan , it really is not feasible. Moving the steering linkage forward, it would solve this issue. If anyone thinks this change will affect the Superstock class, look around at the GT and Modified classes and what is allowed and explain this to us! QA1 makes a great front subframe for the class to run, mine is on order. (LOL). Dyno. Dan Zrust SS/AH and A/SA.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Dan is right. In 2009 when my car was built a group had signed a letter about steering etc. My Aug. email was answered as " we are already considering it". Thanks for the ego trip, thinking I am somebody. Phish

Considering being head of PGA. New rule, your ball lands on the green, pick ball up, add 1 stroke, move on.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

James, reread Spy's post above. He IS updating to R$P as will others. Get ready as soon as they show its worth something besides safety..... Keeping up with the Joneses or eat their dust......

Dan as I stated in my first post, my buddy runs a '60 corvette in modified and has to run stock steering and "safety"?!! More like "antiquated"!! Modified I could see allowing a Rack as others. SS/AH is like the Thunderbolts and RO51 cars, built specifically for Super Stock and traditional SS is massaged as was built from factory.


The SS/AH players at the front has changed significantly since 2009. More left than returned and did they leave due to a safety issue over the steering box or linkage? Or ? Many competitive SS/AH cars just parked, some for sale some.... getting antiquated over R&D hp developments or now R$P updates.....

What is the real safety issue here, fear of broken steering box or centerlink through oil pan. I addressed the weak box issue, if its centerlink through oil pan everyone with that application should be fearful and needs this update.

If this rule change was along the lines of SS racing I could stomach it. The days of "everyone gets a trophy" are not acceptable to me. Changing ball on green, Rack and pinion, Hell, lets rewrite the 10 commandments and let me have some fun with the neighbors model wife while we're at it......

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

I will race SS/AH regardless of this rule change. Concentrate on the eliminator and hopefully bucket list drive in Hemi parade. Thanks NHRA!

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Bubski would like to say Bravo !! A man that makes sense !! Bubski would also like to say first and foremost !! Make it illegal to grind , butcher , whatever to your STEERING BOX its a critical component of your vehicle for yours and everyone else's safety !! Don't treat it like your Stocker heads and intake !! leave it the way it was designed and brace it accordingly !! If the thought of ultimate center link failure still haunts you !! Maybe you can install a steel tube in the pan to protect it !! Bubski's thinking most OEM center links are tougher than the hinges of Hell ,and the rods if they do exit the block come out along the length of it not perpendicular to it so as to cut it in half !! Lots of SS cars have center links thru pans and Bubski can't ever recall a steering failure due to engine breakage in the past !! Bubski's sure if it happened in the past this topic would've already been on Class Racer asking for a change for that combo !! Isn't it just good common sense and financially sound to leave the steering unmodified as produced and just go racing ?? Cheers !!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

I saw that Hebert is going to try to switch over I’m just really interested as to how they intend to deal with the stock spindles.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

classified

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Switch them from side-to-side! Duh!

Meaning the ball joints that bolt to the spindles.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

I have seen a mock up pic but it look butchered

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Sounds like the racers that feel their connecting rods and other parts are gong to come out of the oil pan and damage steering components during a run should start with a more basic idea for safety.
Find a better engine builder. Or maybe an oil filter cutting tool and use it before the connecting rod does the job for you. Check a bearing here or there during the weekend.
Changing rules for a whole class to make up for a racer or 2 with sporadic engine trouble seems to be extreme.
What racers that run this class wrote the letters for this rule? I’m thinking the 2 guys on here that support it did, and the other guy who is speaking out doesn’t? They took the letters of 2 guys and made a major rule change? What does the other participants feel about this?

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

You can quote me right now

I did not ask anyone for a rule change! I have enough on my plate getting my engines freshened up! I am not changing over as of right now!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

As I read the various comments as they get posted I can figure out just who is who by their names. Most of the time. Most of us know who is behind the stage names of SpyPhish, Dyno, Frito and SS/DA Hemi.

Others choose a name that is a total mystery. When the writer uses a stage name like Hacksaw, bubski or Truth Slayer, he gets to enjoy near total anonymity. They might be SS/AH participants or somehow involved in the class. We just don't know.

The comments may be well thought out but eventually get dismissed since nobody signed their name to the work.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Then there are some of us who could care less what people think and use our real names! I choose to be one of these posters. I say what I think and some maybe agree and some might not! If the NHRA did something performance related I would not be in favor but this rack thing is already allowed in GT cars and aren’t these most of the damn SS cars in the lanes? Seems to me they are so what’s the big deal. Our engines are maxed out there is no HP left to find! Ray and Charlie have found all there is!

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

So they are allowing a QA-1 K-frame too?

I got no dog in this fight, but I do have an A-body with R&P steering buried in a stock k-frame. It's easy to put together, but does require a lot of thought to get rid of the bump steer. Mine has stock spindles but fabricated steering arms.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

I didn’t see the replacement K Frame in the ruling. I guess this is a tubular piece? So you just show up with it and it’s golden? I figured that you just put the rack in the production K Frame. Now we need better frame for safety and ease of installation?

How about the guys that are afraid of blowing up engines and damaging the steering and suspension in the cars they are driving, build GT cars? Or just make the rules where the modifications only allowed to cars running in GT? Then all is solved.

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

Hacksaw is not a stage name, he is a real racer ….

Re: Good news! R&P Steering legal in SS/AH
 

I saw it in Dyno's last post. Not sure if he is serious or not?