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-   -   The MSD Grid System (https://www.classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=66576)

Charlie Yannetti 06-12-2017 09:52 AM

The MSD Grid System
 
Just throwing this out there, and not actually pointing any fingers, YET.. we have all heard about the infamous Cheater Grid, and how it will give you almost perfect runs on a consistent basis.. I believe this system should be banned in NHRA Super Class racing, as it has already been banned in many bracket venues..

I brought this up to a NHRA Tech Inspector this weekend at E-Town, and I was told that NHRA is, in fact, monitoring the performance of many racers, and that they do have a tester to pick up on any illegal set-ups...

My question is two fold.. does this testing take place AFTER a racer has won a race, or a Championship, of does it take place during the, now non-existent, tech inspection at every race??... OR, does it take place at all, and is it determined on who you just may be??.. politics in drag racing??.. say it isn't so..

THOUGHTS???

Keith 944 06-12-2017 10:04 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
I have been checked twice, last year it was after 1st rnd at E-town. This year after 1st time run at Atlanta. They are checking for the use of the arc module. Like any other electronic device, some will take advantage of whatever they can to win.

Lenny5160 06-12-2017 02:19 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
Is the Grid with ARC module any different than running the 7531 digital box with slew control?

There are always illegal products out there; why does the Grid in particular get such a bad reputation for this?

voltdr 06-12-2017 04:04 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
The MSD 7531 is ILLEGAL for NHRA racing.
Dan

Lenny5160 06-12-2017 05:34 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by voltdr (Post 537180)
The MSD 7531 is ILLEGAL for NHRA racing.
Dan

Yes, and it should be an item checked for in tech or random inspections, just like the Grid's ARC module should be.

I don't recall anyone calling for all Digital 7 boxes to be banned because it could be a 7531, yet I hear a lot of calls for the entire Grid system to be banned.

Charlie Yannetti 06-13-2017 06:21 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
I don't claim to be a computer whiz kid, and don't think that a lap top should be tuning your race car either.. buy from what I'm hearing, the "Cheater Grid" can be programmed to provide an unfair advantage almost EVERY run.. just hit the tree, and you're on a 90 pass..

This was brought to my attention a while back, but it's now come to the fore front at several National Events...

Don't get me wrong, there are great drivers out there, with great cars.. but give those great drivers an additional advantage, and the rest of us might just as well stay home..

voltdr 06-13-2017 09:48 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
[QUOTE=Lenny5160;537193]Yes, and it should be an item checked for in tech or random inspections, just like the Grid's ARC module should be.


I agree. I had a D4 tech inspector looking at my delay box one time and asked why? He said he was making sure it was on the approved list. I told him he needs to be checking the digital boxes instead. He looked at me me like I was speaking a foreign language.

Dan Foley

Chuck Westcott 07-12-2017 07:12 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
Charlie ! The problem Lies on NHRA- with all of the Tech cost cutbacks -- In my opinion
They have no clue what they are looking for, And the Cheaters Will always Cheat !

Maverick 07-12-2017 10:30 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
The grid was the only approved ignition in pro stock a few years back. It would be nice if you were more specific. Yes, I have a grid, but don't have the 7761 ARC control. Charlie, you must not have the Grid
I am more upset with the stage loc, that NHRA is using at all the divisional, and national meet, that keep the racer that shallow staging, from going red. Most people never have heard of it.

Maverick 07-12-2017 10:38 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
It is a electronic throttle control, delay box, get on the brakes class. The 7761 is not legal. Hopefully NHRA, with step up and clear the air,. Still don't like the stage loc system they use. Steve Williams Div3

brett3533 08-18-2017 09:55 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
interesting read have not heard of stage lock however at the Lucas oil event at Indianapolis this past weekend in the Super Gas final I saw each racer pre-stage light come on, next bottom stage lights both come on then they went to full throttle and the right lane bottom bulb went out and the red light did come on. Do they only use stage lock in certain categories, all, when they want to, did it Malfunction. I went over to ask what happened when he made it back to lanes for his runner up finish and he said he had a power glide and they can roll back when you apply the trans-brake and go to full throttle. He felt bad but said it is a part of racing he understood the possibility with a power glide you may have to deal with. once again if the stage lock control was on how did this happen. sorry my question is not about the MSD grid but never heard of stage lock. have saw the red light come on many times since 1974 and always understood if you stage very shallow and rolled backward you got the red light same as being staged deep and roll forward.

voltdr 08-19-2017 11:39 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
This is not a characteristic of Powerglides. It is a powerglide that isn't setup properly or a low volume pump, pressure low due to hot fluid, band adjustment, idle too low. There are several things that can cause that problem but not just because it's a powerglide.
Dan

Maverick 08-21-2017 12:55 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
Yes, I believe that the way it was explained to me, the stage lite should have stayed on. I will try and look at D3TV and see if I can see what the sequence was. But if both cars are staged, and the tree is activated, and one rolls back, he should not go red. That is the way it was explained to me by several NHRA people. The one I asked last was Cooper, who does the setup for the national events

voltdr 08-21-2017 07:01 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
If all (4) (pre-stage and stage) lights aren't on when the tree activates, the side missing a light will go red.
Dan

Charlie Yannetti 09-13-2017 03:36 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
Yes, Mr Wescott, you are right.. and no folks, I don't run a Grid.. 7AL-2 with a 2-Step works just fine... LOL!!

Wilson1 06-19-2019 11:44 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
I get a kick out of people that say the Grid is a cheater system. It isnít. In fact it is much easier to tell if a guy is using traction control or slew rate with a grid that someone running a 6 or a 7 with a separate box. That can be hidden very well and almost impossible for the tech guys to find. The reason they check after the first run is if an ARC (slew rate module) is hooked up to a Grid it will remain visible for 60 minutes of run time. So you canít hide the module and turn it off with a switch. In fact if you are running against a guy with a Grid, 7 out of 10 times you can rest assured he is overthinking it and might be putting himself at a disadvantage if you are bracket racing. You can do all the things with a 7 that you can do with a Grid, itís just harder. You canít make an inconsistent car consistent with a Grid and you canít make a bad combo good with a Grid.

Keith 944 06-19-2019 12:45 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
The stage lock system has its limits also. maybe an inch or so of backwards roll is allowed. I believe this was first put in place for the pro stock motorcycles that can rock back a hair when staging.
Maverick, You should be very happy to have this in place instead of your comments to the contrary. don't you run a clutch car? This could keep you from red when staging shallow. My dad had a 69 charger with a four speed and he would roll back sometimes when he mashed the gas, went red several times before I talked him into a line lock to set same time.
No one is cheating or has an advantage to this by shallow staging. this is just the way any good racer keeps his car rollout the same and consistent.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

Maverick 06-19-2019 01:12 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
I guess the thing I did not like about the stage lock system, is the fact, I didn't know it existed, till one day I see four sensors instead of three, and ask questions, and have to go to several NHRa people before I get the answer. This was two years ago, when I found out. I am not upset about it, but it more of me not knowing what the rules are, because I can't find it in the rule book. I was in the tower numerous times, asking questions to the division director, or the tech guys, . Yes I have a clutch car, and my car does not roll back. It rolls forward, so if the prestage does go out I am out. But if you roll back out of the stage beam , you are ok

Keith 944 06-19-2019 02:04 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
You have 7 inches to roll forward, you may have an inch to roll back

Maverick 06-19-2019 03:15 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
I think it is more than a inch, need to talk to Cooper, at a national event. He has stated he has have had issues with the reflection off the ground . Uses special paint to try to make it a non issue. It don't matter to me any more. I just to like to know the rules so I can play the game. Bottom line, I mentioned that two years ago, and it not a issue any more, not knowing.

voltdr 06-21-2019 11:44 PM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
If you watch the track prep at National Events, Every time they start to spray the traction compound, on the starting line, they will put wooden covers down between the groove and the beams. I think this is to help cut down on the "shiny" coating being too close to the beams. Has anyone else noticed this?
Dan

63corvette 06-22-2019 11:06 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by voltdr (Post 591084)
If you watch the track prep at National Events, Every time they start to spray the traction compound, on the starting line, they will put wooden covers down between the groove and the beams. I think this is to help cut down on the "shiny" coating being too close to the beams. Has anyone else noticed this?
Dan

I have noticed the same thing.
I have also noticed that the spraying of the entire track has almost stopped completely.
I lost at Topeka's national on Saturday and watched all day Sunday and there was very limited spraying of the track even during the Pro Mod session which lasted over an hour due to all the crashes. That was the first time this year I have watched on Sunday and the track prep looks totally different than past years.
The Las Vegas national also had the NHRA tech check for the grid on the losers (for SG anyway) and plugging into it. One of the friends was checked. I am not sure what they were looking for however, it was only for the early rounds. I lost 4th round Sunday and they did not check me. I do not have the grid so that may have been why.
Our friends who run Top Sportsman were also asked if they had a grid and they did not so they let them go by.
Just My Observations
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

voltdr 06-22-2019 11:31 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
The track prep has changed dramatically, Not only don't they spray the whole track, the VHT or PJ1 is diluted so it's not as sticky. This is all an attempt to slow the pro cars down.
Dan

Shake & Bake 06-23-2019 09:08 AM

Re: The MSD Grid System
 
voltdr,
I too have noticed them putting wooden covers down between the groove and the beams when they spray the track between rounds.


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