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-   -   Air shifters in stock? (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=89178)

littlemanjoe 03-04-2025 02:04 PM

Air shifters in stock?
 
It looks like they will allow RPM shifting devices in stock for 2026.
Why do they want us to be like Super Stock?

JP1738 03-04-2025 02:12 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Wow. I had not seen that in the rule book amendments. I could have saved myself a lot of time and effort messing with my auto 1-2 valve body/governor in my th350 this year lol.

Delay boxes by 2030 :rolleyes:

64 savoy 03-04-2025 02:36 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
And no clutch shifted 4-speeds.

John Dinkel 03-04-2025 02:51 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
I'm going to continue pushing the buttons in my Max Wedge. Air shifter sounds too confusing.

Jared Jordan 03-04-2025 02:51 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
It already felt like a Stock/Super Stock merger was inevitable. Might as well just give us the transbrake too and get it over with already.

MR DERBY CITY 03-04-2025 03:12 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanjoe (Post 710184)
It looks like they will allow RPM shifting devices in stock for 2026.

Nice, this latest rule change brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Copo stocker.

GUMP 03-04-2025 03:25 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 710194)
Nice, this latest rule change brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Copo stocker.

Wasn't me!

Jack Matyas 03-04-2025 04:13 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 710194)
Nice, this latest rule change brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Copo stocker.

Not so fast --- I was allowed to use E-Shift in 1998 in my Pontiac Formula Ram Air Ile .

littlemanjoe 03-04-2025 04:24 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 710194)
Nice, this latest rule change brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Copo stocker.

Wouldn't surprise me any.

MR DERBY CITY 03-04-2025 04:33 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas (Post 710198)
Not so fast --- I was allowed to use E-Shift in 1998 in my Pontiac Formula Ram Air Ile .

OK…..and you can still use E shift ….Your point ????

littlemanjoe 03-04-2025 04:39 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Dinkel (Post 710191)
I'm going to continue pushing the buttons in my Max Wedge. Air shifter sounds too confusing.

John, that's what separates the boys from the men.....;) Pushing buttons ain't easy.

Mark Yacavone 03-04-2025 04:44 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanjoe (Post 710184)
It looks like they will allow RPM shifting devices in stock for 2026.
Why do they want us to be like Super Stock?

I don't know where you're getting this from, but might as well.They have been allowing solenoid shifting inside the trans on year / models that never had electronics internally to begin with . Been going on for years.

Also, you've got Stocker guys putting up Y/T videos of them never using the clutch after the launch!
I'm told that a true clutchless trans is a better deal, but much more expensive.
So there ya go...More goodies for the entry level class LOL

Jack Matyas 03-04-2025 05:14 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 710203)
OK?..and you can still use E shift ?.Your point ????

Don't blame everything on the existence of the COPO as your car can use them also .

Paul Precht 03-04-2025 06:48 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Dinkel (Post 710191)
I'm going to continue pushing the buttons in my Max Wedge. Air shifter sounds too confusing.

Same here, I've been pushing the same buttons in my Sport Fury since 71, it's so simple and perfect although I hit second a bit too late on occasion.

jmcarter 03-04-2025 07:56 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 710196)
Wasn't me!

Likely came from the other coast…the slope keeps getting more slippery by the moment.

jmantle 03-04-2025 07:57 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 64 savoy (Post 710188)
And no clutch shifted 4-speeds.

We ran no clutch back in the 60's, broke a lot of parts

Jared Jordan 03-04-2025 08:33 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter (Post 710213)
Likely came from the other coast?the slope keeps getting more slippery by the moment.

Why does the West Coast always get blamed for the rule changes? Or lack of enforcement? We, collectively, seem to do pretty well at Indy when needed.

mnmaxwedge 03-04-2025 08:56 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
2025 rulebook says that pneumatic, rpm controlled shifters are allowed in stock after Jan 1, 2026

Alan Roehrich 03-04-2025 08:59 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanjoe (Post 710184)
It looks like they will allow RPM shifting devices in stock for 2026.
Why do they want us to be like Super Stock?




Like Super Stock?


They were in Super (0.90) classes and bracket cars before they were in Super Stock.


I doubt Super Stock is where they're looking at taking you.....

littlemanjoe 03-04-2025 09:02 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
SECTION 11A: STOCK CARS, DRIVETRAIN: 2, TRANSMISSION, AUTOMATIC
(Page 7) (02/25/2025)
Any model transmission, same make as car, with a maximum of three forward speeds
(unless OEM equipped with more than three forward speeds). O.D. gear not required,
reverse permitted. Transmission case must be OEM or aftermarket OEM replica from a
standard, automotive application as found in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification
Guide. Aftermarket case must meet SFI Spec. 4.1. NHRA-accepted adapter plates
permitted. Modifications to shifting patterns are permitted, provided full shift pattern is
retained. Full shift pattern must include park and reverse. Any gear change must occur
as a result of an internal function of the transmission or from direct action by the driver.
Lockup converter permitted if OEM-equipped with lockup converter and OEM
transmission is used. Otherwise, lockup converters prohibited. Electronic transmission
controls for the electric shifting of automatic transmissions to shift via internal function of
the valve body only permitted in computer-controlled vehicles only; may shift by RPM or
time only, wires for line lock, wheel speed, driveshaft speed or GPS signal prohibited.
Otherwise, any gear change must occur as a result of an internal function of the
transmission or from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, electric, etc. controls in all
noncomputer-controlled electronic fuel-injected vehicles prohibited. The use of air
assisted or electric shifter is prohibited in all Stock applications.

Beginning January 1,
2026, RPM-activated pneumatic, electric shifters permitted. Deepened stock or
aftermarket transmission oil pans permitted. Drilling of transmission case or rear of
engine block to adapt incompatible units prohibited. Functional neutral safety switch
mandatory. Transmission brake prohibited. Tailshaft modifications for bushing
replacement, or NHRA-accepted aftermarket tailshaft, permitted. Any car running
quicker than 10.99 must be equipped with a transmission shield meeting SFI Spec 4.1

Dyno 03-04-2025 11:15 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
I used the Turbo Action E shift in my LS1 stocker 25 years ago. Made the 1 - 2 shift perfect every time. I think NHRA did this so everyone would have the same level racing world. The pre 97 cars never had the advantage of this. Use it if you want, don't if you want. Dyno

Robin Lawrence 03-05-2025 08:58 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 710205)
Also, you've got Stocker guys putting up Y/T videos of them never using the clutch after the launch!
I'm told that a true clutchless trans is a better deal, but much more expensive.
So there ya go...More goodies for the entry level class LOL


I run G Force 5 speed transmissions in my 13 Cobra-Jet. When I run in Stock i use the 1 Piece Sliders that are considered Non Clutchless. In a street version they have a 7 degree back cut to hold them in gear. In most stockers we get them with a 0 back cut to allow them to be pulled out of gear under power. Even with that modification it's very difficult to make the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Most times I over run my intended shift point as it hits the limiter before it unloads the slider and allows to be shifted.

The "Clutchless" sliders are split into 2 halves with springs holding them together while in neutral. When a gear is engaged the shift fork pushes one half of the split slider to engage the lugs on the gear. When you make a shift the net gear over rides the RPM the previous gear and that half returns to center on the hub. The hub has 3 roll pins that keep the split halves from over riding the center of the hub.

To use Clutchless sliders in my transmission I change 2 sets of hubs and sliders. If one wants to purchase those parts I would guess it would cost about $1,000.00.

My clutchless transmission is worth between .05 and .07 over the clutch assisted transmission. Changing nothing but the sliders allows me to shift at optimum RPM.

I will sometimes use a Rev Limiter offset per gear to "unload" the sliders in stock. It's slow but seems to be more consistent.

When I have been torn down for a National Record they rock the car in several gears to verify that I don't have a clutchless transmission. The split sliders will pop out of gear if you rock the car.

The clutch I use is a billet twin disk. With the counter weight at RPM I would break the linkage before I could disengage it LOL.

Stick with me for more tips on "Fun with Stick Shift"

Robin

jmcarter 03-05-2025 11:43 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan (Post 710215)
Why does the West Coast always get blamed for the rule changes? Or lack of enforcement? We, collectively, seem to do pretty well at Indy when needed.

Wasn’t implying that, but when a rule drops out of the blue and it hasn’t even been floated in SRAC it usually indicates one of the NHRA “highlighted” racers had a hand in it.

Eric Merryfield 03-05-2025 04:08 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter (Post 710229)
Wasn?t implying that, but when a rule drops out of the blue and it hasn?t even been floated in SRAC it usually indicates one of the NHRA ?highlighted? racers had a hand in it.

Possible

Might be a way to appeal to more bracket racer crossover....A lot of young racers have never shifted....in brackets they allow air shifters even in footbrake. No box would include transbrake and be the same as superstock for that.

Eric

Robin Lawrence 03-05-2025 05:31 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 710205)
Also, you've got Stocker guys putting up Y/T videos of them never using the clutch after the launch!
I'm told that a true clutchless trans is a better deal, but much more expensive.
So there ya go...More goodies for the entry level class LOL


Oh yeah, almost forgot, to Mark's point I do believe there are Stockers who are running clutchless transmissions.

Robin

e vassar 03-05-2025 11:21 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan (Post 710192)
It already felt like a Stock/Super Stock merger was inevitable. Might as well just give us the transbrake too and get it over with already.

Well OK.. so eventually I'll be able to use a transbrake,delay box,and air shifter?...now get rid of heads up runs and I might finally be competitive in this class!.....obviously I'm talking out of my arse here...but if anyone wants to lure bracket racers over here......

NHRA3106 03-05-2025 11:50 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Okay, I will own this one, and also give you my reason. I can’t say he presented this, but I can say I pitched this to Larry Hodge for about 1.5 years now. I won a div championship with a manually shifted automatic trans. My question is, why is this any different from anything going on now? I suggested an elec.solenoid, not air, but no real difference there. Most everyone is using either e-shift or pressure 1-2, and this just adds cost, and difficulty getting a valve body at times. With controller and solenoid, we can now not worry with exotic valve bodies. Not changing anything we aren?t already doing. There are so many things that are so far removed from when I started in 1997 it blows my mind. I love class racing but the more I do it, the more I realize we are to a place that takes CLASS out of racing. My 2 cents!

Kevin Wells

JP1738 03-06-2025 09:39 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Is a change this big not normally brought to some kind of vote through SRAC or some other kind of public forum?

Dyno 03-06-2025 11:32 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Nothing to vote on! This just makes any advantage equal for everyone in all classes.

Adub464Q 03-06-2025 11:50 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JP1738 (Post 710257)
Is a change this big not normally brought to some kind of vote through SRAC or some other kind of public forum?

I believe it was discussed with SRAC, but maybe not officially voted on yes/no. The discussion stemmed from the e-shift and older automatic cars being treated with equal opportunity. I think Dyno is spot on with this one.

Rich Biebel 03-06-2025 12:20 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
My Firebird can use the E-shift and over the years has had that in the car but does not now

The controllers are hard to come by and the trans obviously has to have the correct VB for the E-shift and I don't have either

I opted to put an air shifter in my car for bracket racing which is all 1/8th mile anymore...

Manually shifting 2 times in an 1/8th mile is a disadvantage

I can easily remove the air shifter for NHRA 1/4 mile racing and manually shift as I did when I had this car nearly 20 years ago....

It's no problem in 1/4 mile racing...

I do welcome the new rule for 2026 making my air shifter acceptable...

Casey Miles 03-06-2025 02:43 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
NHRA has determined that a Stock racer can't move a lever, but a Pro Stock has to move a shifter going in the mid 6's. Makes sense? Why not cluchless air shifted stick shift cars with magnet released cluches?
Making Stock more basterdized every year.
Just my look at it.

Casey Miles
248H E/S

L.Fite 03-06-2025 05:51 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Sneaking up on roller cams!...

1320racer 03-06-2025 06:32 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Some of you are too much, trying to hold onto the past. It?s the year 2025, nothing is like it was 25 years ago no mind 50 years ago and very little of competitive, winning, stock eliminator cars today is stock. Air shifters is just the latest in the evolution of NHRA Stock Eliminator. More changes will come, guaranteed!

Dave Casey 03-06-2025 10:05 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
If we are trying to take away an advantage, then why not make every stocker change every gear themselves. No matter what year or trans it has.

1347 03-06-2025 10:30 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Casey (Post 710295)
If we are trying to take away an advantage, then why not make every stocker change every gear themselves. No matter what year or trans it has.

Because newer cars have autoshift from the factory.
So now older cars don't have to play with governors to have there car auto 1-2 shift.

Sean Cour 03-06-2025 11:32 PM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
But?..hey, let?s keep the indexes attainable for the rental cars that roll in for grade points! F?ing dipshyts!

Dave Siltman 03-07-2025 07:52 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
Now you know why I prefer Nostalgia Stock/SuperStock?and yes, I run a stick, and yes, I still use the clutch on gear changes.

GUMP 03-07-2025 08:40 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
This really is one more change that I just don't get. Driving the car is ALL the fun....

Chris1529 03-07-2025 10:09 AM

Re: Air shifters in stock?
 
I am thinking that if you can't at least manually shift an automatic transmission, maybe driving a racecar is not for you.


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