Willing To Hold...Again
 

The above was in the Jammin Jerry thread. While I waited for a poll, it did not start. So, here it is. :)

This is my view on holding when I dial (I'm a bracket racer). When the subject comes up, I'm always willing to share that I always try to hold. Most racers can't understand why I share that.

I hold anywhere from .01-.06 on a consistent basis & have held more on some occasions. I primarily use the throttle to get rid of what I'm holding & very rarely use the brakes.

Below is a recent time slip where we both were holding. The right lane is an accomplished Stock Eliminator racer & a very accomplished bracket racer in his bracket car.

I had gotten rid of most of what I was holding using the throttle around the 1000'. I was planning for him to spot drop hard using his brakes. I ended up using my brakes slightly. No wiggles or smoke from neither car.

https://i.imgur.com/oHd7ncv.png

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Depends on the class I'm running and car I'm driving. I'm usually dialed close to honest when bracket racing as my finish line driving is more compromised being a slow door car. I'll hold a smidge in Stock cause I'm trash at hitting the tree, holding gives me the ability to at least make the race look right for longer. If I'm running outlaw index stuff locally I'll hold more as the racing is normally side by side where I can get a really good look at the finish line. In that kind of racing I'll hold anywhere from honest to 5. I try not to make the same run twice in a row.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I have a good weather station and my car is predictable. I dial my car what I think I can run and I don't hold. I rely on a better tree and running closer to my dial. I will lift if I have room. The competition in Super Stock is really tight so I rarely lift. I can tell you a .049 bulb and 1 over with a 4 wont get you many wins in SS.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

You will figure it out when we race.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

For me it depends on the race... sometimes hold, sometimes dial hard and wing it out...
Sometimes it works...
Sometimes it don't...

BUT... I think Harvey invented sandbagging, and the "Boys" have been doing it as long as they've been racing, and they are very good at it!...
Even back in the Datsun days...

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

That slip was a perfect example of why I hold. We both had crappy lights, very unusual especially for my opponent. I'm almost 100% sure, if I dialed what the car would have run. I would have lost that round! ;) My car would have run a 9.034 @ around 150 mph on that pass. My opponent came by after & we had a nice chat with some chuckles.

As for what you think about Super Stock. I picked a random race from Divisional Live Timing & took a look at your claim. I saw a good many winning with a similar light & also seen a good many winning with .050+ lights & worse (not heads-up races). Most of that was in the 1st 3 rounds & they started tightening up as the rounds went along.

I'm not pushing holding on anyone. I'm sharing what I do with my program. Many moons ago I used to dial honest/what I thought it would run. I started practicing holding & I will never go back to dialing honest. It's so much easier for me to race while holding.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

1700, I found your research on SS to be true in practice as well. I believe you have to be very very talented to win an NHRA stock/SS race, but I don't think you have to be incredible to win a couple rounds. That's just my experience. I have not and do not make stellar laps all the time, but I have won a few rounds here and there this year with 50-70 bulbs. I've won a few with sub 30 bulbs as well. But I was quickly dispatched 2nd or 3rd round at every event by a more talented driver. That's on me, if I wanna compete at a high level, my consistency will have to match it.

A good car goes a long way too, and as long as I had all my ducks in a row, my car was really good this year. Thanks to all the advice, parts, and expertise by those that frequent this forum, I built a really good, competitive car. If I just had a driver... :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Must be because I was running slower bracket classes with less experienced drivers but..I run my time trials to figure my dial for first round, but when racing starts, most of the time I tap the brakes before the stripe so my dial is never right in the first few rounds. When it tightens up in the later rounds I dial soft (.02) and decide just before the stripe depending on where the other car is. If he will make the strip first I dump at the line, if it's a toss up or a fast car that I can't judge I run it out the back door. If I break out then there's a good chance he did too..unless I missed the tree in which everything changes, lol!!

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I NEVER hold..........unless I'm holdin!!!:D:D:D

Occasionally I'll miss the tree... and my kids/buds are all over me!! LOL! I tell them when YOU can be 100 and still light up the scoreboard come see me! LMAO!!

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Cheater! Where do I sign up? 😂

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

This slip was in the 3rd round of the low roller gambler. Pretty sure this was a slow stock eliminator car. I screwed up by not holding a lot more than I did. It was a tough judgment call & could have been made easier by holding a bunch.

Was I still cheating? :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/27uXw8U.jpg

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

You gotta put a number on the window you can run.

From SR1 may he rest in peace:
You have to hold your light to make it look like you are a bag o donuts

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Not a hero run but would/could have won a great number of rounds looking at Ennis.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

1700
I see that you seem to hold a bunch
You were using the theory that you were the faster car so you make the decision
I like it ? You?re either just riding people or you doing a 20 mile an hour dump

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Thanks for the info, Curtis.

That slip shows we sometimes have crappy lights. Even the best has them or worse. Holding gave me some extra options that I would not have had if I was dialing honest.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

James,

When I voted in the poll, I chose all options except "Don't hold/try to dial honest".

I have a set range of hold numbers that work best for me in most situations.

I use my mph to my advantage, it has its pros & cons. For me, the pros outweigh the cons! My car will run 150mph+ but I'm not legal to run it that fast yet.

In my class (Pro), I chase 99+% of my opponents. I definitely don't ride my opponents or do a dump. The 2 slips shared showed me getting rid of around 15mph. Most of the time it's using the throttle around the 1000' mark & saving a little for the finish line. That is where I make my final decision to take or give up the stripe.

There's is no drama with me killing my hold numbers or getting rid of mph. The 1% of the time I do use the brakes it's only a slight amount & again no drama.

1700/781L :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Agreed. I essentially said the same thing in my first response on this thread, just in a different way.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Phx divisional I lost a radiator. By the time I found and replaced tadiator it was 1st round. With no time runs I was using what I had to determine ET. Then added .09. I was fortunate enough I was the faster car for 3 rounds and won. 4th was a faster car then me. Took the .09 slower ET off and dialed honest. Had two people come by and said weather was worse and I'm dialing faster. I was able to win 4th round. 5th I went red.was it frowned on to fender race, I'm sure it was, but I was at a disenvantage. What ever works, works.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I screwed up the position of the post, on my phone it would not correct, but you can get the gist. Don't hold more than you can handle...if my light is there, I will show ya the backdoor!

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

This is the best reason I have found to hold from time to time.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I enjoy these types of differences in ET/MPH. Especially when I'm doing the chasing. I'm well versed in these types of differences & even slower. As I stated earlier, "I screwed up by not holding a lot more than I did. It was a tough judgment call & could have been made easier by holding a bunch."! ;)

I have also raced & won in vehicles slower than yours. I've been on both sides of the fence.

These types of races, I have plenty of experience from running gambler races. They do teach you how to be disciplined with your strategy.

We'll see if you turn the tables next time, good luck to you!

1700/781L :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I see you didn't post in this thread. Did you at least vote in the poll?

I meant to post this when the thread was a little fresher but forgot.

1700/781L :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I'm honest to .02, but when I race Kenny Anderson at Charlotte, I believe I was holding about .20 lol. Congrats again on your R-up ;)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

That race was epic!! LOL!! When I saw you start rippin at 800' I'm like....My boy likes to party!!!:D:D:D

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Your boy was broke and trying to make something happen :D:D:D

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I have NO idea what I’m doing. I must’ve done a few things right twice this year though. Two rounds still kinda itch me…but, I’m still having a blast!

There’s a lot of Kenny Rogers’esses on here. Y’all holding more than you’re sharing :D

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

I believe the poll/members were pretty straight forward & for the most part honest.

IMO, what the poll didn't show was the ones holding more & they didn't want to share/participate. ;)

1700/781L :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

You think I can hold against all fast company? Was I holding or dialing honest? (I learned more about my own car in a week and 44 passes, than I have in all the years owning it). I knew what it was, and adjusted my driving to a slightly wounded car.

That Gambler was all 6 (23 of them), second cars...and slow poke me.

1 laughed at me before first round said look around everybody is dialing 6's but you in that slow heap. I said ok I paid my $200.00 bucks, here is how it will go...I will be good by 2 thou, you will think I am parked at the 1/8th mile (those in Sportsman thought that at least, and said so often, Mrs. Hoeffer actually thought I was broke at the finish line), and I said I think you are going to fly by and breakout. We shall see!

Good by 2 thou, and he lifted as I took the stripe dead flat in it but my left foot just touching the brake pedal just in case. Yes I lost Round 4 The Semi's (round of 3), but the competition was the weeks Giant Killer and Money Winner Andy Schmalls, and here is why (besides the very nice .010 he slammed me with)....The second pic, after 13 months my cheap $20 Buck a bag Tennis Balls in the rear springs (FWD cars get traction devices as necessary, and with all the action the rear independent coil springs receive pushing a heavy slow car. I need something to keep it from squating, lessons learned They were each and every single ball flat and busted, totally worn out and beat up, and deformed...Not 1 had any air left in them, it took some passes to figure it out and stalling the car much higher than normal), to preset the rear and take up the slack.) had flat given up the ghost from travel with the car loaded down with an extra thousand pounds while trailering, sitting in storage etc. and a lot of launches. But, not something I could fix in storage or in the pits safely.

Air bags are on the way now, I want my R.T's back! Hey, even wounded I turned 200 into 600 and my second semi's of the week...Won Sportsman the next night, and all were the first time beyond 1st -3rd round duck in 13 months since back late in life. The Holley Terminator X is almost finished with the install too! Rare though I can Run Pro, and run against the Super Pro guys in Gamblers also in my Turtle.Attachment 71816

Attachment 71817

Attachment 71818

Attachment 71819

Nope, I was not holding, just running what the car said it would and the weather said I was probably going too. Closest I got to the Run for the money all week was the last day though, I was good by .002 above in Pro leading at the time slip booth, and by the time I got to my Pit Area, that was gone and beat by a thou dangit! It was all fun though. Holding would not have helped me like dialing honest did. Both ends of the track and stripe decisions all help.

Then again...it depends on the day...and who you are. Lol. I wish they would just put a chalk stringline mark across the 1/8th mile finish line at least (I am going slow enough to actually notice and see it. LMAO!

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

This Poll/Thread has done reasonably well with 9,800+ views. All this without drama; there are still threads out there without it.

While I primarily race 1/4 mile, it seems drag racing is headed for shorter distances. It doesn't matter to me; I actually like racing 1/8 mile.

Anyway, I have limited holding strategies for the 1/8th. The plan this year is to start testing more holding in the shorter distance. I'll be doing this while racing 1/4 mile & I've done some in the past. We'll see how it goes; the racing starts very soon for us in Las Vegas.

1700/781L :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Testing on the 24th! My Winter Improves better work, because they were a lot of hard work. They were not off the shelf purchases, though there were many purchases and a ton of my labor over a long period.

Will I become a holder? Who knows, but not folding. See ya there 1900.

Pretty Ambicious as John Irving stated.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

We are pulling for you at our place Gary!

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

seems like if you only hold 2-3-4 then there are two decisions to make
1> do i need to hit the brakes
2> when do i need to hit the brakes

if ya got 5-6+ then there only one > when

captain

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Ty John, it fired up first time last Friday rur, rur....first key stroke and roared to life after exactly a month apart like it never had been apart John....then before the fuel pump came back on (pump prime worked everytime I went key on)... it died. Tried 4 times and same result, then I ran out of daylight and open header noisemakers time in my close neighborhood. I had been up for days@that point was exhausted.

Went to bed and got up late Saturday, started through that long drawn out Holley 1st Startup checklist, did not get far before total embarrassment set in...1st up brought up the check functions, fuel pump on and it runs fine, so the relay is working, got my Wife Celeste out in the garage at the keyboard to check injector function with my hands on it and ear close and zero clicking sounds or spray when she hit the few milliseconds test button a few times, throttle body throat and blade are totally dry but I can gather through the nose a faint smell of sweet Sunoco 110, yeah the pump prime is providing something, but no spray...so, I remove the clip, noise it as she fires it again, there is juice there at the clip, put the meter on the injector to ck ohms and it is low, yeah the stock injector(s) I own are all low impedance injectors and oh lord what a fool I am....In paper building a Holley EFI systemand first choosing the features you choose the ECU then build the system around that ECU, last
January there was a footnote once I chose the Terminator X system, while HP and Dominator can use either high or low impedance injectors Terminator uses only the high. Old age caught up to me, but you do not build a system for a combo that you cannot buy an off the shelf kit for by buying the injector first, you buy the ECU first (I could not get to that laptop fast enough to order the exact injector from holley I need to get fire in the holes and keep it running long enough to reach at least idle and she is standing there whole I am red faced.

I order 1 and spend another hundred and change, she was as usual not really happy waving another hundred plus goodbye, not upset, just not happy...until I said "well thank goodness we own a budget Stocker: that only needs 1", as I scrolled to same part number but a set of 8 of em, then she glanced at the much bigger price and smiled once I said we only need 1 and maybe a spare
later, at least it is not a set of 8. She was happy...the Injector is due here Friday by 9:00PM and I already warned all the neighbors on Friday evening I am making lots of happy open header noises no matter the time it arrives!

What a goofball though forgetting to buy the right injector. Getting older is hell.

At least I know it works right once that issue is resolved. I did achieve a short idlingsession the next morning dribbling a bit of gas down the throat. just once, but you know I had to make at least 1 attempt. Lol. It is going to run great!

Now just to get the last 8 wires (the Bosch lsu 4.9 WBO2 sensor wires pin mapped), but I need the TYPE and other configuration data to do so), and tge choice was in correctly of WBO2 type so I did not hurt it as the light showed yellow so it was heating key on.

That is the job for today. And the injector is 3 days from arrival. Then happy sounds begin again. Testing just a week away and I hope this cold weather is still here. She is going to fly! Well, for a slow car at least.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Hey Jack...that is every race for me after I remove my foot at the tree. And that is holding or not as you guys build a full head of steam.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

John, are you and Jon going to Vegas to test anything a week from Friday? I would like to get an appointment to speak with you both about a very near future purchase please. Got the truck and need a rolling third part of the equation very soon.

Ok, I will stop junking up this thread with all kinds of my off topic chatteting. Sry bros. I am just really giddy that the 3rd part of goal 1 2025 is so close and timely.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Please PM me your contact information.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

Brakes?

1700/781L :)

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

PM sent.

Re: Willing To Hold...Again
 

After 40 years with a V6 2 bbl combo I`ve learned I`m either holding .03 or dialed .03 too hard when I dial honest it seems like. Just a way of life/racing for me and that combo...

Makes you learn how to use the brake pedal!