The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Pre-Covid we had had Class Eliminations at every National in Division 2. What is the justification for only having Class at one event now?

Also, why is there almost no complaining about this?

To me, this is one of the few valid things that we should be fighting for.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Ya know Daren, I won't even get into my rant regarding why we are even AT Nat'l Events anymore. I'll just say that when participation is legislated down to the point where there is no longer even any kind of meaningful "qualifying" then IMHO we (S/SS Racers) shouldn't be there anymore.
The NHRA could easily run Class Eliminations at any number of Divisional Events (with intent, not as an afterthought) throughout the year. Maybe at least one and maybe more in each Division. Just leave Indy alone, some things are sacred even to me!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I think that running Class Eliminations at Divisionals is a step down. I also don't think that one opportunity in each Division is enough.

I am assuming that before Covid turned everything upside down, the cost of Class was built into our entry fee. So, in Division 2 they are handing out two thirds less trophies than before and charging more than before.

This is a legitimate issue that should be addressed. There is a lot of discussion on here on how Class Racing is dying. This is a big deal that we shouldn't let go easily.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Do you believe for one minute that I don't feel that this isn't a legitimate issue? I'm quite sure that if anyone feels this to be a non-issue it will be the NHRA B-O-D. They have been taking time in their shows away from us for years and giving it to Jr.s and local bracket shows. If you (and others) truly believe this to be a "legitimate issue" then I would like to suggest that "we" start looking at this from a 21ST Century perspective because whether "we" like it or not, "we" don't fit in to NHRA's Nat'l Event program any longer.
I can easily live with running Class Eliminations at a Divisional Event where we're openly welcome and participation isn't a problem.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

[QUOTE=GUMP;691341]I think that running Class Eliminations at Divisionals is a step down. I also don't think that one opportunity in each Division is enough.


How is that a step down?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Class at nationals are a joke, how can you have class when the field is getting smaller and smaller quotas.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Gump, I feel your pain ….I will share with you a quote from my close friend Charles Norton ……”Nothing lasts forever “ :):)

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Crazy idea add two more class events for SS/STK. Run them both at national open's. Maybe one at the Dutch classic and one at Belle Rose in Nov or INDY fall classic in Oct. The air should be killer and guys can run there cars flat out with no penalty. Give NHRA Wally's away for the class wins not plaques and let them set records along with a hemi shootout. I don't see how this would not work . I bet you could even get a few sponsors for events like this.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Only 32 cars at Nats is hardly a class runoff imo.
NHRA Nats do not care about sportsman racing. Half the field is home on Thursday or Friday and even sooner if weather plays in.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Ron, I agree. I have seen class contested at Nationals with a quota of 50. Its has no meaning at that point. Now were seeing cars capable of running -1.20 making deals to lift at a 1000' or setting their car up to only run -.98 and hoping with a good light to get the win. Between no prize money, running at Divisionals and the AHFS, racing for class is all screwed up except for Indy. Maybe running Class at National Opens where we can also set records without the threat of a AHFS hit, as suggested by Yac and Charley, is the way to go. Preferably these Nationals Opens would be at the fastest track in the Division and at a time of year when the DA is very good. And let us go down the the track at 8:00 am not at 11:00 am after Jr dragsters. Maybe making National Opens great is the way to go. NHRA isn't gonna give us what we want at National events.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I would be all for adding MORE Class Eliminations. My issue is that we really did lose something that it's we are still paying for.

Why do I like Class at Nationals? There is something very cool (to me) about being able to show a spectator the Wally that says XXXX Nationals that I just won. It was kind of sad for me to finally win Class at Gainesville and get a trophy that doesn't say Gator Nationals.

As I see it, if we do cave in Division 2 and only do Class at Divisionals, there should be no up-charge for two more opportunities to win each year.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Absolutely. There are far too many classes for such small fields. It's a significant issue in SS. At a 50-car quota, you get 25 in the "combo" classes. The combo class runoffs are still fun to watch, but not the same experience.

However...
I would bet substantially that NHRA's deceptive quota-setting habits are exactly how NHRA both reached and justified this decision.

Look at the fall Vegas nationals. For years that was a bucket list race for me. There were 100 Stockers and 100 Super Stockers and they ran 3-4 rounds of class eliminations at both!!

Now the quotas will be what, 60 each with no class in either? Maybe because they've dropped the quotas by 10 each year and created the perception that "class racers are losing interest in class eliminations, those races get fewer and fewer cars."
I feel the same thing happened with Brainerd. Years ago it was 80+ with class in both categories. Then it became 75, then 70, then 60. Maple Grove and Gainesville also (e.g., all of the big ticket class eliminations races).

I know the D2 nationals have obscenely low quotas - the Charlotte races are like 50 each right? So if you have a bunch of races with quotas in the 40-50 range with class eliminations, and others at 60-70 without class, guess what you can tell your executive buddies at the country club? "We get more entries and more entry money at the nationals without class eliminations." In the C-suite, nobody cares about why those statistics are true - just what the statistics are.

And #3, let's think about what NHRA sees every time a national event entry window opens. 100 guys rushing for 60 spots regardless of whether there are class eliminations or not. Think from a business perspective (setting aside the shady 501(c)(3) stuff for a moment). Why would a business keep providing a service when the consumer base is demonstrating that they will pay the same for the product without that service?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Seems like the bills do....

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Well said. Bakersfield the weekend before the Winternationals would be nice!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

If we could get one more race like Indy, it should be the spring national event at Las Vegas. Most of us cannot go to Indy with any regularity due to the cost and amount of time away from work. Stock and SS racers on the west half of the United States deserve a Class racing opportunity like Indy. 128 car field with 150 quota, no AHFS and yes tear downs. LVMS has massive pit space and the town obviously has a nationwide appeal. Heck maybe running Class on a four wide track would save time and make it special. Would love to see a Ford, Chevy, Mopar and Pontiac all leaving the line with the wheels in the air running for A/SA class honors.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Ya know, I've been NHRA racing for kissin' close to 50 years and we (the Sportsmen) have been "losing something that we are still paying for" just a little bit at a time, every year, for close to that long.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Better yet,why not have a National Open at Pomona the weekend before the Winternationals.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

With the addition over the years of the new and different classes there is just not enough time for class elimination at most national events. Plus NHRA does not have to buy the class Wally’s. I don’t know how much they pay for them. Glad I have the ones I have won over the years.
Pro mod, MM pro stock, Super Comp,Gas and street. TS and TD. FSS and now FX have all been added at some point. Plus the exhibition stuff that they run. JR’s , bracket cars and TF motorcycle among other things that take up the time that was once used for class elimination rounds. The pros seem to eat up much more time than they did when I started racing. Scrubbing the tires and making engine adjustments at the line. Fanning the doors and wheelie bar adjustments at the line after a burn out. All that takes precious time that is taken from the sportsman classes. There is no way back to what was
I am 65 year old now and hope to race a few more years before I have to retire. I plan to go to the races I can and enjoy the time I have left. See y’all at the races.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

But there is time to run Teslas down the track at national events 🙄

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

That’s the stuff that is killing the class eliminations for stock and SS

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

How about a sportsnational (or several) in each division. No AHFS and teardown. We love going to Columbus. Wish there were more cars that attended.

Also wish that NHRA would stop adding classes. Way to many

Volkman
412.651.2356

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Disappointing to see this happening. Just because I'm no longer racing doesn't mean I don't care about this anymore. I see lots of good ideas and comments. I haven't seen anything about bringing this up to the SRAC members. My Class Winner Wally's are some of my most cherished. I'm hoping this topic doesn't just die and blow away. I'm want to to read about plans for turning this around, would the SRAC be a place to start?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Its a shame, I attended my first national at Indy this year to try to win a class wally, i was close but missed. I have enough grade points I was planning on going to the Epping and maple grove nationals to run for class in stock an superstock if they did it that way again, I don't think I'll go out of my way to attend those races now, I'll definitly be going back to the dutch classic again this year though if theyre running class at those for a wally.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I really hate that I didn't go to Epping last year. One of my Bucket-List things is to get a Class Trophy from every race that holds Class. That list has gotten way too short now.

I really hope that the SRAC will take this up with the NHRA. Maybe rotate Class Eliminations through all the National Events over a few years?

Keep what we have too.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I would like to try Class Eliminations on a four wide track.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Combo would be a bizarre deal, interesting to watch though

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

We keep getting changes and people keep making suggestions but,,I'm curious,who is the person that keeps making the changes?? Is it Lonnie G?? Is it Ned W??? Or maybe it's the Division Directors?? We keep hearing our Reps should be bringing it up,,but to who??
Alan Rhinehart and Joe Costello are always praising Stock and Super Stock. Joe does live shows in the pits with different Racers and you'd think that would be enough to help. Many people have ideas and recommendations,but until we have someone with pull and position to say,,Hey we can benefit from Class at Nationals,,we can benefit from more entries at Nationals,then not much is going to happen.

An old smart man told me many years ago and those words are so true,,,
"Enjoy What You Have Today,,CAUSE NOTHING LASTS FOR EVER!!!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

It wasn't Lonnie.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Justin Lamb?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Tim, if Lonnie didn’t have input I’m pretty sure Alan and Joe don’t (imagine Lewis Bloom could vouch for that). Unfortunately the NHRA folks who “get us” are in a distinct minority. The suits are NOT car people, they could be swapped one for one with others in comparable positions for a private equity business and we’d scarcely tell the difference.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Maybe someone can explain how they did it 25 plus years ago. I remember the Summer Nationals in Englishtown New Jersey approximately 128 Stockers almost that many Super Stock with pits so packed they made sure you were exactly on you pit line. With a 4 day event we had 2 rounds qualifying on Thursday 2 rounds qualifying on Friday and 1st round on Saturday. Not to mention the packed Pro pits with a midway that you could buy anything plus,you could bring a broken part to get fixed or manufacturers could test and diagnose an issue that a racer might have. I don't remember how they did class at that event,but they didn't beg guys to come to the lanes and the Dragracing was just constant cars running down the track.
I think we need to do our part to speed things up especially 1st round to find our opponent and get up to the staging lanes.
Like putting National Records in National Dragster,,someone just decided we don't need it anymore.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I could not agree more. There needs to be a Vegas race identical to Indy.

Steve Teeter
Stk /SS B/SA, L/SA 620

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

The suits are NOT car people, they could be swapped one for one with others in comparable positions for a private equity business and we’d scarcely tell the difference.

And there is your answer to every problem we are discussing on class racer.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

NHRA wants the time so they can add other things to national events.


The next step is when class is no longer contested anywhere but Indy. Then nowhere at all.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I agree with all of you that it is very sad to see class going away at nationals, I will throw out some food for thought. I have seen first hand the spectators at national events walk into our pits as we generally have good pit spots near prostock or promod and we see alot of foot traffic. People will walk right by my stocker to look at the show down car. Unless you look under the hood they are both same inside and out. And the stocker is probably the fastest or one of the fastest stockers at the race but most of them walk right by it to see the showdown car. My personal opinion is there needs to be more heads up in stk and ss to get fans interested in it. As sad as it is to say most fans at national events have no idea or appreciation of what all the stk and ss cars are at the track. Another sad truth of changing with the times. When I have guests at the track who may have never been to a drag race before, they have a hard time wondering why some one wants to bracket race and they seldom understand .90 racing. Im still glad to be able to race a internal combustion engine that is loud.. LOL as those days are getting closer to being numbered

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I see a big difference between what the spectators will watch on the track, and what they will check out in the pits. I don’t even know if the NHRA brass are aware of this. Yes, the spectators might not watch much of Stock and S/S on the track, but once they have walked through the Pro pits, these are the cars that they check out. They will walk past a every carbureted dragster and tube frame Sportsman car, but many, many of them will look at, or stop and talk and talk with the owner of, the ‘60’s and ‘70’s Stock and S/S cars, ESPECIALLY the Stock Eliminator cars. Why? Because those are the cars that they can relate to. And the Stockers are more attractive to them because of no wheel tubs. Stock and S/S are a free car show in the pits and many spectators are aware of this. I have spectators come and talk to me about my cars every day of every national event that I attend. NHRA take note: we ADD VALUE to your events.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I haven't run at a Natl. Event in YEARS other than Sports Natl.s but I just don't see it being practical to run Class at Natl.s Events anymore (except Indy). With 50-60 car limits on the field size there just aren't enough competitors to make Class Runoffs interesting for anybody, IMHO.
It just seems to be a better "fit" to have Class at certain Div. Events (example, Baby Gators) where the car counts will be 90-100+.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

What’s the total shame about the way NHRA treats, stock and superstock
Is that all the classes pro stock too fuel funny car derived from
Stock and Stuper Stock eliminator
If there was no stock there is no NHRA Circus
Like dinosaurs I guess we will be eliminated
Bean counters rules

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

As someone who is new to STK class, I'm not terribly broken hearted about not having run-offs as often. The idea is cool given it's doing the absolute most with the absolute least as far as performance parts are concerned. And if you're way down in the alphabet like some of us, it's one of the cheapest ways to do heads-up drag racing in the sport. But I never ran the class when they did run-offs as often as some of you are describing, so to me this just seems like business as usual. Bracket races all year and a run-off every now and then for the people who are really passionate about that kind of thing.