Make Divisionals Great Again
 

How do we do it? Why don't tracks want them? Why is there little to no crowd at 90% of them? I would like to have a few track owners/managers on my Tuesday show to educate us. Maybe someone from NHRA could do the same. There are many questions.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Why tracks don’t want them: I would say it’s because they have to pay NHRA a hefty
price for having a Divisional race at their track with not a lot of spectators to off-set
that money that nhra gets.

Why No Crowd: Can’t really answer that one, but I can guess a lot of spectators want
to see Nitro Cars (no offense to the alcohol classes).
The average spectator probably can’t understand handicap racing & probably wonder
why the .90 cars (no offense to them either) take off, slow down and take off again.
If a spectator never been to a race & you try to explain these classes and Comp Elim
is another thing to explain about going faster than .50 under you get a index hit, the
average spectator is probably pulling there hair out. Or saying, I thought first one to
the finish line wins.
Just my take.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I can't say I disagree with Pete but I think one part of the problem is tracks just don't promote these races. Understandably this costs money and they're already paying NHRA to have the race anyway but I think some promotion could help atleast it works at Norwalk.
In reality though if anyone has been to their local bracket races lately they don't have any interest either, we don't have a car obsessed culture anymore. Like it or not the only sportsman racing that draws attention are the heads up radial stuff that is easy to comprehend and there might be a big crash at anytime.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

as has been said, tracks don't want to host divisionals because it's a money losing proposition and there are no spectators because we no longer have a car culture in this country, American boys/men no longer have a love affair with their car and haven't for decades. Oh and what we do makes no sense and is boring to watch to all except racers and in the 21st century, promotion only happens on fb. No one reads the newspaper, no one buys air time on the local radio station and no one is stapling flyers to telephone poles and trees.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Guys we go through this every year, yet nothing ever gets changed. I think the stakeholders( Track Owners & Nhra must sit down and the track owners
say look fellas, this isn't working for us. Do I think NHRA overcharges? I
would have no way of knowing. There was a time the track owners lined up
to get a points meet. Not the case in 2023. In everything I am about to say,
Mr. Bader is the exception. He could give most of us a step by step manual
to LODRS success, and I don't know what percentage would get it, but it would be low. Are some LODRS races entertaining? Very much so, but only
to us. At Bader's LODRS events, he got jet cars, Funny Cars, Fireworks, Fabolous Concessions, Spotless washrooms, Paratroopers, people being shot out of cannons, etc. I feel that both the Track and The NHRA have to re evaluate the relationship. There are a lot more doubles, because there are a lot less willing tracks. J,R.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

People will not come if they don't know it's there.Like any business you have to market your product. And don't rape them coming in the gate.Alot better to make less money at the gate with 5k people than nothing at the higher price. Marketing,Marketing, Marketing

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Hi Bobby,
I get more spectators at South Mountain for a regular Sunday bracket race than I see at a Divisional race. I would like to hear other opinions on your radio show. My perspective is from what I have seen and read here but willing to see what other tracks have done and or would be willing to try. E town did the night of thrills and used us as fill but was not a Divisional. I remember Gary Richards giving tickets away for free for the DIV 1 and still no-one in the stands. Call me 347-522-6466. Being an NHRA 1/8 mile track not many of us in the country but plenty of independents, IHRA and now WDRA not sure what's working for them. Somebody has to make it a HAPPENING and want to be THERE!!! I have done car shows on the HILL and folks get to watch and hear some great racecars tear down the track. Maybe a thought for those Div tracks???

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I agree with Pete. People go to a race to be entertained, not for a math class.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Every time I see the posts on facebook with the stands packed at a national event, with some big name NHRA supporter saying something along the lines of "Drag racing is not dying, so on and so forth" While I'm not going around saying the "sky is falling," it is obvious that drag racing on a sportsman level is dying a slow death. National events will always bring spectators. However, even in the few years I've been running stock eliminator, the attendance has been dropping every year. Part of the issue I think is scheduling. There are some races that just make no logistical sense for racers to attend, such as the Epping divisional race right before Indy. But, I can say that there was a sizeable crowd at NED this past summer due to their Night of Thrills type show being held Saturday night. It sucks to say, but it seems like to get people to a division race, there almost has to be another attraction that weekend other than just the regular racing. While quite a few of my peers from high school are interested in cars/racing, the appeal of stock eliminator, or almost any sportsman category, is not there. While I don't know precisely why, I can say that the rise in used/classic car prices definitely hasn't helped. Billy and I, well mainly Billy, has proven time and time again that you can go racing for peanuts, but to face facts, it takes a special person to want to race a rusty, brown cavalier. I know it's easier said than done, but maybe there needs to be more "old timers" letting "punk kids" race their cars from time to time.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Hey! Wait! What????

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Ya know, just among the track owners/operators that I know or know of in Div.1, there are people who race with or are friends with Pro/Stock, Pro/Mod, Drag Radial and Fastest Street Car Racers. I don't know or understand why these track owners/operators can't get together some kind of a "buddy-deal" and put together some kind of a show if that's what it will take.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I know we chat about this almost every year on how to make Divisionals Great and I have a lot of insight from talking to track owners when setting up my MA Schedules on how they feel about the Divisional Events and for the most part track owners are not big fans of having them due to the cost factor and let's be honest it's up to the tracks to spend the additional funds to help market those events and not all tracks have that deep of pockets to do so.

When you have Alky at these events, the tracks have to get additional insurance and the Top 10 in each Division in Alky get in for free along with a certain amount of crew and the track pays the purse on top of the fee that they pay NHRA (It's a base fee for certain amount of cars - I was told at one time by a track owner it's $15k for 350 cars and then it goes up as the count goes over 350....so when we complain about $60 crew pass, it's because the track is trying to re-coup some of that money)....when you look at 2023 D1 Alky points there were 22 TAD that earned points but, only 10 TAFC earned points in D1 with 2 who made a run so they could earn the free status next season. I mentioned at the MG August race that the Alky guys are mostly business men / women, they should be getting together to do their own purses, I know DJ Cox did at Cecil one year to help the track out. Then you have Alky qualify on a Friday at times that won't attract any crowds because people are working (12,3,5) it doesn't make any sense, I think you move Alky to qualify on Saturday and elims on Sunday to make it a show beginning at 3-4pm, let Stock, SS, .90, Comp get their qualifying rounds and maybe R1 in before the "Show" starts and be done for the day and run TS, TD, Alky, Jets, Benny the Bomb, Wheel standers, etc. for the fans. They always say that Alky runs on Fri / Sat so they have a travel day.....ummm most these guys have drivers who drive their stuff to the next location, and they fly in.

I know Bobby does a great job of promoting the "Car Show" with Stock & SS but let's all be honest kids today want to see a lowered Honda that can barely go over railroad tracks than see Stock, SS and the .90 cars. Our last .90 race was at Maple Grove on October 15th, we ran with a car show called "Static Struggle". The place was packed with about 250 show cars all Hondas, all fart boxes, all lowered and it stunk like weed....lol. The field where we park for the NE & LODRS was packed with spectators filling the stands, the concession stand was wrapped around the building with people buying stuff, they definitely made a killing on that day with just those cars and then you add in 100 T&T Cars at $50 a pop with no payback. Why I think your also seeing NHRA partner to run Alky cars at events like Cleetus & Cars and the Norwalk Night of Fire.

One thing you notice when you ever watch on NHRA.TV telecasts there is reasons we kick things off early in the morning with sportsman and you'll hear Alan, say maybe after SG or Comp runs "From this point forward, everything that goes down this track will go faster than 8 seconds". It's to tell people the "fast, not complicated cars" are coming out...people want to be able to understand classes and not try to figure out why this guy went 9.50 and the other guy went 13.23 and won. Thats why when you go to a NE.85% of the people are there to see ...John Force.

How do you make it better? I think you put together a 4-5 hour show that highlights the fast classes, if they want to come in early to watch Stock, SS, .90 they will come but, people these days are looking for the best bang for their buck, they don't want to be priced gouged, kids have the attention span of about 3 hours before they are bored....I saw this on a page today about Pomona:

"Im really perturbed in Pomona raceway I dont care what association it partakes in but if its $15 for a hot dog or $23 for a sandwich it better be at least descent it amazes me the cost of everything and get sub-par absolute junk . I understand inflation but these venues are failing if you disagree you are the problem . No common family can come out here and afford for a good time"

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

You are Spot On Rob, on saying the car show at MG was lowered Honda’s n such.
Most young kids today if their parents weren’t into class cars or .90 classes they sure
as hell are not building or buying one to race.
They love racing their Honda’s or whatever else that makes a lot of noise.

But yet, the Pan American race that Atco had as their last race, Wasn’t it Packed With
Spectators ?? Go figure…..

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I don't know if trying to get average fans to come out to a divisional race is going to work. I think focusing on making the event more attractive to the racers families and friends would be more effective. They are the low hanging fruit. We all have family and friends that want to support us, but don't come out very often because they spend a lot on money for a ticket/pass watch us go down the track for a 10 seconds a couple of times and then sit around bored for hours on end. If the track is a few hours drive away, hotel and other costs come into play. Heck, I kind of discourage people from coming out because I know they will just get bored and never come back. People want affordable and enjoyable experiences that they will look forward to coming back to the following year. Some ways to attract these people are:

>people like camping, provide space for them to bring their RV on site for a nominal fee, this will allow a group of buddies or a family an affordable option to stay over night, eat and drink
>allow friends and family to come and go all weekend so they can enjoy other nearby activities in the area like golfing, gambling, amusement parks etc in the hours between us going down the track. Let the event become a race-vacation.
>Include a free event tee shirt for the kids under 12 to show all their friends back at school
>kids under 18 get in free, heck they might bring their friends along
>host a racer BBQ with local cover band Saturday evening for us to all gather at
> provide a bounce house for kids which allows young moms a little break
>provide a shade/tent area to get out of the elements, just like NHRA provides for its VIP's at National events
< host a local car show

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I hate to say it this way but unless you're racing a class or have friends that are doing it in another class. Watching most of our sportsman racing is like watching paint dry. How many of you are in the bleachers after you make a pass watching other classes? Not me unless I have someone that I want to check out how they have done. For me personally I have seen enough pro runs to last me a lifetime. I still may go up to watch a round of Pro Stock.

What we do have is the greatest traveling car show on the planet. It would be great if tracks could capitalize on that.

Everyone will say I'm nut's no way to do it. I said that about being able to go to the corner store and buy some Pot. No way that would ever happen.

You can now bet on about everything under the sun.
You want to watch the stands fill fast get gambling involved. I don't think it would be that tough for the Pros that do it for a living to set it up.

Please all you old people don't think they need to put betting booths at every track. I can place a bet in less than a minute on my phone on about every game. I don't understand why it has taken so long. BP

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Talk to the people at No Problem as there is always a crowd all 3 days at our D4 divisional every year.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

These days, the buzz is all about No Prep, No Time, Drag Radial, Cash Days, Street Outlaws, boosted and sprayed, grudge, etc. If it helps tracks make money and stay open, good for them.

National events are fuel cars and everybody else for filler

Local tracks don't typically get spectators for bracket shows and rely on specialty events to get people in the gate.

Not sure how much more can be packed into a 3 day Divisional, or a race like the Dutch, when it seems like they have trouble getting it all done if there are any weather or on track incident delays now.

Not sure how you can attract people who don't understand, or appreciate, class or .90 racing without dumbing it down or fundamentally changing it. They might show up once, but if it's not their cup o tea, they probably won't keep coming back.

Different audiences. Not a lot of Jamey Johnson fans showing up at a Limp Bizkit show. Not even if it were free.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

As a non retired working racer the Economics of of Division race are way out of wack. Too much time from work for way too little potential to win $$$. Add in the ridiculous long delay in receiving contingency money when you do Win and Runner up, only makes it worse!

Once upon a time Top Fuel, Funny Car, & Pro Stock were contested at Division races. That went away when not enough people were showing up to justify the teams and tracks costs. Now Non Alcohol categories subsidies the Alcohol categories with the high entry fees to payouts Time is now to move TAFC and TAD out of Divisional races and raise the payouts for the Sportsman classes.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Some realistic low cost options I think could help
Incorporate car shows also where space allows. Most of my local cruise nights get a bigger crowd than a divisional
Track promoters can do their own podcasts especially to cover last races results and next races scheduled events
Local band night is a-good idea or DJ
Food trucks are usually better than concession stands
Gambling used to take place in the Raceway Park grandstands unofficially but if the announcer says just “who ya got in this race the Mopar or Chevy?” It drums up the people a little.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I'm a big drag race fan, but I will not watch throttle stop racing ever. even if my best friend is in the final. Get back to index and heads up racing.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I know this a little outside the box thinking but I would propose 1 of the days at a divisional would be free for all spectators, people will spend $ if they get in free, possibly charge $2 parking and $2 hot dogs $6 tshirts, have a car set up that kids can sit in and take pictures..etc Brian Seaberg

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

It's very obvious that a lot of you guys have never run a business...

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

The key is to restart the car culture, love of cars Americans, specifically boys had with cars. In an effort to do that, allow any kid up to 18 wearing a team or scout uniform/jersey in for free all weekend long and advertise it in the local communities where the divisionals are being held. These kids will bring at least one paying parent and maybe a friend or two. Also have a few junior dragsters on display too and have some of the junior racers and their parents do a Q&A on Saturday morning for 30 minutes.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

How people look at things has a great deal to do with which side of the paycheck they're signing!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I like your ideas Brian. I think with some local advertising and treating the divisional races like MLB Minor League ball games you could make the event something very entertaining and affordable for people. Throw in some local live music and tasty bbq food on Friday and Saturday nights!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

whose paying for these barbecues and live music, not the track owners!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Las Vegas Motor Speedway-Muscle Cars at the Strip puts on a 3 day sportsman event every year. Great entertainment, food, etc. The place is usually packed and is a lot of fun. You should come check it out. Next years event is scheduled 3-17-24 to 3-19-24. Hope to see you there!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

You bring up a good point. By contrasting Muscle Cars at the Strip, which is a fun filled event that attracts many, many spectators vs the Division 7 race at Las Vegas, you realize the promoters make all the difference. The energy and excitement level from promoters at Muscle Cars at the Strip is very apparent, they really try to express their appreciation to the racers and spectators, offer several events within the event, and best of all showcase Stock and Superstock. On the other hand, the Division 7 race is pretty much focused on just getting the race in with very little excitement and nothing else going on.

I believe Randy Painter and his brother are the primary event promoters for Muscle cars at the Strip, while Phil Mandella of PMR organizes the Stock/SuperStock race.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

That's a lot of entry fee paying, parts and tow rig buying, low maintenance for the tech guys, NHRA paying members and crew people you're advocating telling not to come.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Let's be clear and all agree, nothing will change that benefits the racer, payout certainly won't increase, the contingency program won't get better, track conditions will still vary from track to track as will the rollout and the NHRA will still struggle to finish the event on Sunday many times. THIS is all the racers that are paying the entry fee at the gate care about, not spectators in the stands, not the concessions stand, not a barbecue and not live music.

Divisionals will not be great again!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I disagree and think this opinion is shortsighted. I go to the races to have fun. Many of the suggestions put forward are aimed at improving the racer and spectator experience. Done in good measure this should translate into improved proitability for track owners. Most of us also care about sustainability of the sport. Making events more profitable is the best way to secure our future.
Jim Grossi

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I have to agree with Ed here. These tracks have to decide if they can get enough entries to justify having a division race. It would be really hard for a track owner to throw money at trying to draw spectators to an event that like it or not people just aren't interested in us. I know it hurts my pride a little to say that but it's true. We had some friends of ours go to Charlotte in the Spring with us and I honestly had a headache at the end of the day trying to explain the different classes and how each worked. They wanted to be interested but they just didn't get it but when the Pros ran they really didn't ask any questions but loved it......heads up classes is what people understand and like

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Not only will Divisionals not be great again but tracks will continue to close, meaning there will be less divisionals and more travel.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

We already know it's possible and we already have a great example of how successful divisionals can be, Summit Motorsports Park. Bader packs the house and makes more money than he does at his National. So if we already know it's possible, how do we get more tracks to take a similar approach?

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Have a huge manufactures midway get the sponsors involved again ,advertise the event heavily like a National! As of right now there are no spectators anyway ,so let them in free, they will buy stuff at the midway , parts, food ,t shirts, etc. Make them BIG events. Advertise advertise advertise!!!! We already know we will show up no matter what the pay is lol. The key is getting fans in the stands so the tracks want more of these races !

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Bader is successful because of that track's location, there's no magic to it. He couldn't move the needle in his stint at Maple Grove.

There's no manufactures midway to speak of anymore at national events because the NHRA chased them all away with their unreasonable fees, sane fees would apply to divisionals that have far less racers and no fans in the stands.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Bader literally told me in our podcast together that Maple Grove's location is the best, in fact much better than his.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Dude should have realized that In-N-Out Burgers were only $6-8 at Pomona. But I wholeheartedly agree that the cost of everything is way out of line. I have been arguing that NHRA national tickets are way too expensive for their demographic but as long as they keep posting pics of sellout crowds, I have no case. Seems Saturday is their only sellout day though, no one seems to care as much for Sunday finals anymore. Anyways, this thread is about increasing divisional spectator attendance!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

if so why did he FAIL? Answer because it's NOT!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Bader did not fail at Maple Grove, he was brought in as a consulant not track manager. That was 2018, they did fairly well there without a track manager. They sold out sat. of National event that year. not bad, so he didn't fail. Get the facts straight.