new A/FX CLASS
 

Tuned in tv and caught the end of Bristol or Norwalk? saw that once again NHRA is adding another class A/FX , another big money class to weed out the backbone of NHRA the Sportsman Racer---Is this another class for certain people with huge wallets or the end of CAMARO PRO STOCK? How many cars do they actually expect to field?Seems to be another class to bump the field of Sportsman down again-If they get their way the field will be cut to 25 for the Sportsman classes only to apeize the the TV time, ,,,Next question is who is going to tech these cars? They dont have anyone on sight any longer to Tech the Stock/Superstock cars,

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Both the Challenger and Camaro are dead so what's the long term plan for this class?

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

There were a lot of bad decisions made just hours before the Titanic went down ….:)

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

It was fun to watch Greg Stanfield make the pass, but what is the point??

Will the next NEW class be Pro/ Suv? or Pro/ Ev??

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

my point exactly. keep adding some high dollar b/s class that will only have a handful, if lucky teams, again NHRA has forgot who made them, The Sportsman racer get basically no money for winning an event now , no sponsorship payout s hardly now, and entry fees are thru the roof, while the FATCATS running the association are getting richer and richer, for doing nothing.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Shock Eliminator

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

There will always be controversy when a new class is added. Some will
love it, some will hate it. I don't know that there will ever be enough
F/X cars to have their own class. I think they will become a mainstay of
Comp. Eliminator. However, if that high-winding manually shifted car,
didn't get your juices flowing, seek immediate health care. Does it make
sense financially? Of course not. Let me know what class does.
To hear Stephen Bell say yesterday that he is building a Tribute Bob
Glidden A/FX car to match race with Greg Stanfield at different Mid-
West tracks was good news. Maybe at some points races to enhance
spectator attendance. I thought it was all good news, and isn't going
to affect S/SS in the least. If people do nothing, we already know the
results. If people try new things, who knows what might happen.

J.R.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

I think the class is awesome and I enjoy watching the Stanfields race anything. In my opinion this class is what drag racing is all about. A/FX will bring one hell of a lot more entertainment value to the show than throttle stop cars.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

When this new class was first brought up I was interested in it.

With the Camaro and Challenger going away, what cars will be used. If any cars that have been available in the last few years then it just might work. Yes, I have changed my thoughts about this.

Doing tribute cars, like the Rod Shop car this past weekend, could bring some fans back. The thought of 2 to 8 of these cars match racing at various events just might work. A way to draw more spectators to events.

Imagine - Rod Shop, Bob Glidden, Don Nicholson, Ronnie Sox, Bill Jenkins and others - very cool.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

I have liked the premise from the start. BUT, the initial premise was new Factory Stock car bodies/engines in tube chassis. Right now, THAT's a dead player unless NHRA wants to get into some kind of a Nostalgia deal where they allow ANY YEAR bodies with a MODERN (not current year) engine. NHRA always (at least since the '60s) seems to be about a decade behind Detroit.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

I look at this a bit differently since it is my hope that it will grow to replace the gas funny cars they now call Pro Stock.

As for affecting quotas, I can see the concern but I think it's a separate issue where the suits made a terrible decision years ago and will never admit they made a mistake that needs to change. They add classes in hopes of a better gate take - and sportsman quotas, if they even are on the list, are at the bottom.

A third thing is that there is absolutely no doubt that sportman racing is why the NHRA came to be and is its background. But the mbas in Glendora never think about that. Sportsmen pay way too much money and don't get what's fair in return. And they cost money to provide services for. Yes, all of you provide the money for NHRA to make theirs.

The classes that have been added are some finance geek's wet dream as to how to increase revenue (spectators) while not spending another cent. If any of the manufacturers are still involved, that's more free income.

Is it right or is it fair? Not by any stretch. But no one should be surprised that some overpaid execs forgot about you (but not the money you're charged) long ago. We allowed our voice to be silenced decades ago. It's painful, but the best (only?) strategy right now is to make the best of what we can.


I don't expect this post to be very popular, but having been involved since the early 1960's, it seems very clear to me.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

My take is it's a great class in and of itself, but I don't see where it fits in, in the grand scheme of things.
They jumped right up and changed the rules to let the factory ringers in..anywhere they could .
They dominate qualifying in Stock, for the most part.
They are all over S/S too.
They brought them into Comp to pump that up.
The showdown cars were supposed to be the answer for fans who only want to watch heads up, flat out racing.
Now we've got a few F/X cars, so far (back in a minute)

As someone called it, Camaro Stock got out of control with the body mods and all the same power plants.
Are they going to phase it out in a few years? Do they want to? Do they like getting sued? Those guys aren't going to want to slow back down and run F/X.

Showdown cars are just a slower version of F/X, with automatics, to the guys in the stands. Do they want to phase them back out too? Without new cars to participate, might as well..They can get in on the lawsuit too.
Some of those guys are getting a little long in the tooth, you might say and are not going to want to move up to a Comp type stick shift class.

So where is this all going, except maybe to the lawyers?
Remember Pro/Stock Truck !

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Interesting you mentioned PST. I was thinking of that situation the entire time I was writing my post.


I've stayed silent for a long time about how I felt about the class. Life is strange. I got assigned to write an intro article about them for Super Stock and the next thing I knew I was doing color commentary on them in the tower.

So, spilling the beans, I always thought it was the answer to a question the racers never asked. Not once did I ever hear it brought up.

It was the start, or at least a major jump, in the "money gets you anything" programs we've seen rise up through the years. Truck sales were getting hot, and the factories were on board and willing to throw some money at them. NASCAR had already done the same and back then it was monkey see, monkey do with NHRA brass following and adopting their programs as quickly as they could.

But other than the piles of money from the various makes, a tremendous amount of lobbying was being done by nonracers in the industry. Chassis builders led the pack, followed closely by anyone who made parts that would go on the things. I can't count the number of racers who made plans due to being told "It's a cheaper way to go Pro Stock/It's small block Pro Stock/you'll be racing in prime time/lots of sponsors wanting to jump in."

So people bought into that, most of the sales pitches didn't pan out, and it wasn't long before the stands would empty when the sessions started.

I think that situation is 180 degrees away from the new A/FX. I'm pretty sure people will once again like seeing production cars that they can buy (yes, in some cases it will have to be used for now) using highly developed production engines that will take an immense amount of talent to drive well.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

"In the grand scheme of things", NHRA really needs to shake up it's entire Professional program. The suits have been selling the same show with (mostly) the same people for years. I'm glad to see that they've finally given the Pro Mods a bigger part in the show to take advantage of the popularity of the street outlaws stuff which, realistically, are Pro Mod cars. And they (Pro Mods) pay their own way, don't they?
IMHO, NHRA should make the T/F and F/C engines much smaller and allow any type of engine to make things less generic and more interesting. And in F/C, go back to the old "engine make has to match the body" rule. Probably should do the same thing for P/S.
No, I'm not drinking........... just doing some brain farting.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

When the class was initially created, it did not require the current investment.

Then, the big chassis builders got involved and demanded changes to the chassis and body to fit their agendas such as one-piece front ends, carbon brakes, and more. One of my close friends who is a well-known chassis builder started to build the first COPO for the class and worked directly with Lonnie on making sure the build and design of the car met the rulebook.

However, due to the pressure exerted by the big-name shops, every other week was a new change to the cars by NHRA. Eventually, he had to go back and start changing stuff on his new car, including going from bolt-on fenders to the new one-piece front end. Not only wasted money and time but also increased the cost of building the car by a large amount.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

It’s a cool class and all but just another pro class that takes up time from the sportsman classes. When is NHRA going to learn that they already have too many different classes. This will be an extremely expensive class to run and will take a big crew similar to pro stock. The clutch tuning to get down the track will be tricky on the small tires. Another bad idea by NHRA. One already crashed several months ago testing.
What class will they drop to make room for this new class?

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Sorry guys but I just don’t share your enthusiasm. The FS cars should never have been allowed in STOCK eliminator, PERIOD …As fas as the new A/FX class, I really don’t care one way or another what the millionaires do with their $$ ….:)

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

I've believed for a long time that they (the suits) keep coming up with different classes hoping for one to be a "home run".

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

How about sharing which rules were changed that allowed the FS cars into Stock Eliminator?

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

I'm pretty sure that the "Suits" didn't come up with this new class.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Gump, we have been through this before …They ain’t stock eliminator cars, they have no vin like Billy’s nova , they weren’t bought off the showroom floor, if you want to argue some more ,…. Send Lt. Dan …..

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

We sure have! As long as you keep beating a dead horse....

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Gump, my post was not directed at you in any way, shape or form. Just because the FS cars race in stock eliminator does not make it right. They have no business racing in stock eliminator. For a guy that thinks he is so smart, you are just not very bright….
WITH WARMEST REGARDS …..MJ

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Gump, I wouldn't pretend to know what NHRA will do, at any given time.

Little history here:
50 years ago they forced us in Jr.Stock, into S/S to pump that up.
Then they created a sort of pure stock to replace us.That didn't last for 3 years, before it morphed into what we have today..Not even close!
Next, Modified was broken up into S/S and Comp, even though there were more entries then, than there are presently in Comp. Yes, they did pay off the racers that were involved in the lawsuit, an undisclosed amount. I don't figure they'll try that again, with Comp.
9.90 was lifted from the California Pro Gas (9.80) group.
Then they stole Pro Mod, TS and TD from IHRA.
Now, supposing they need some FS cars to pump up some new, late model eliminator? I know where there's a bunch of them ;-)

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

And yet, I will continue to run my program, despite your crying.

You are very brave behind a keyboard...

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

One of the most principle rules of Stock Eliminator once was the "minimum of 500 cars manufactured" rule to start with. Sorry to get off track.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

My .02 is that the problems NHRA faces are not the classes or cars or participation or payouts, The problem is the competition has done a better job capturing the imagination of the American Hot Rodders. Their main customer. Programs like Street Outlaws and No Prep Kings and races like that have done a better job promoting their type of racing. They made it easier to understand to the generic fan. First to the finish line wins. No head starts, no ET's and RT's posted. It's not about what Detroit is selling or not selling any more. They need to promote what they currently have better, top to bottom.
They can promote the fastest B/SA shootout picture the interest in a Camaro vs Mustang vs Hemi car shootout all chilled down and no AHFS penalty. It's a matter of selling your product that you currently have. The average hot rodder or restorer can picture building and racing their garage build but few can envision buying a new COPO for $125k then cutting it up and modifying it for another $100k or more.
They can sell a grudge match between the 2 best Super Street drivers with the right promotions.
NHRA has a strangle hold on the Stock Super Stock racer because there is limited option for us outside of NHRA style racing but they can sell even a U/SA mathcup if they try

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

In one way or another, "the suits" are involved. Be it taking something from someone or some kind of "support" in other ways.
They have, for the most part, lost focus on the majority of their members AND their customers.
These people (the suits) are "supposed" to be the "experts" in the field of Drag Racing and as such should be right on top of any new trends but they keep getting beaten to the punch by others. And when they ARE "beaten to the punch" they have been known to condemn the "others". Look back at how they maligned the street outlaws initially.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Like I said, my initial post was not directed at you or your program. Obviously you can not understand basic English.
I am just going to LAUGH at this one . You may want to do a little homework ….

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Regardless of the topic, we always end up on the same highway, new cars
shouldn't be allowed to run in Stock, and NHRA is the enemy. The NEW CAR issue isn't new. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember as a very
young lad, the 1970 season at our local track. Stock Eliminator was run
weekly at almost every track across the nation. Two new cars were brought out that year, A 1969 Camaro 427 4 speed car(B/S) and a 1970 Olds 442
W-30 (F/SA at the time) and this was my Fathers car. The dominant car up
until that point had been a 1959 Chevrolet, running in N/SA, and a 1953
Oldsmobile, running in V/SA. The wailings of protest could be heard for
many miles. "How can we compete?? Look at the parts they get from the
showroom floor. Heads, cams, aluminum intakes, etc. etc.It is called evolution. But look at the fun. When Billy beats a New Car with his Pontiac/ Buick/ Cavalier/ all of the Junior Stock contingent goes crazy with elation.
Lets face it, we're having fun, and if we're not for what it costs, then we are crazier than most. Rather than bashing NHRA, or beating up Gump, who has made tremendous contributions to our sport, let's get pro-active.
We have been given a soapbox with our reps for each class/division. Either the reps are not interested( which I don't believe) or they perhaps feel that their voice isn't heard. I would love feedback on that. If they feel powerless, a meeting with NHRA is warranted to establish each parties abilities to help us move forward, in the best harmony that can be achieved. In the meantime, let's not hate on each other, we are in a world that is presently derisive enough. Let's enjoy our hobby together, and always strive to make it better.

J.R.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

On this I'm sure we can all agree.

And just to be clear, I personally don't have any problem with the new cars.
I DO however have a problem with the absence of any Tech Inspection.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

From what I have seen, the FX class has been mostly driven by racers. Obviously, the tech department and OEMs have been involved to pull it all together.

I see it as a natural growth from Stock Eliminator and Showdown. Pro Stock has become too much of a departure from the production cars to show even a hint of the class' roots.

There are reportedly quite a few cars being built. You would think that all the Showdown teams would eventually make the switch.

Only time will tell if the class is viable or not.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

From what I've heard, an awful lot of Racers have been asking for their chassis deposits back................
BUT, "time will tell".

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Someone please explain to me and to the casual observer/fan. What is the difference in that Camaro and any other pro stock? Other than a different engine combo, they look identical. Is there really a need for another class? Most of the X pro stocks in comp are the same way, no difference to the fan…. Sorry I thought it was a great idea at first but then realized that’s what pro stock used to be before a loss of parity and so now the all Camaro show that it turned into. I would’ve loved to of seen them somehow fix pro stock invest more into that instead of creating several more classes that just may not work.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Ya know, about a million years ago, Michael Beard approached then IHRA Pres. Bill Bader (R.I.P.) with a program he called International Pro Stock. Tube chassis, "stock" roof and rear quarters, 2.0L turbocharged engine using an OEM block and head.
I'll grudgingly give Michael credit but IMHO, this concept would take off and fly today and there are dozens of 2.0L cars/combos all over the world. I don't think it would become like "Camaro Stock" any time soon and in a short period of time they would probably be as fast or faster than a current P/S car.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Gump, you think we're beating a dead horse here, but where do you see this ending?

The COPO Camaro is only sold through U.S. dealerships. The COPO Camaro is a purpose-built race car which is not street legal and therefore can not be registered in any of the 50 states. The COPO Camaro is sold without a title, on a Bill of Sale, and does not have a VIN.

A 632 old tech BBC, fitted with EFI, could never , ever be a street legal, dealer sold automobile in 2023.
First of all , it would knock the CAFE standards way out of whack for the smaller engine Camaros down line.
It's nothing more than a factory experimental platform being used to promote crate motors. No way, in any scope or fashion, does this car belong in STOCK Eliminator
Keep this nonsense up and they will be allowing FX Comp cars in Stock in a few years.
I'm sure you'll jump on that too, right?

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Last year I took delivery of the very first Big Block COPO built. I didn't buy it to wreck Stock Eliminator. I got it because it is historic. As it was placed in the guide, we have been racing it. Being honest, have you seen us do anything with that car that harms the Class?

Note that I favor the combinations that are based on the production castings. I think that you would agree that we run those cars pretty hard at times?

I will add that I was very involved in getting the 2015 Camaro into the guide. I caught massive crap for that one too!

In answer to your your questions, I hope that, somehow, the OEMs find a way to keep producing at least limited numbers of ICE cars geared towards performance. I would happily race natural Stockers.

I also hope that we will have a place to race long into the future.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

As far as getting combos in the guide someone with some pull should have NHRA put more modern production models in the guide (i.e. Dodge Chargers, Chevy Caprice Police model, Chevy SS, Pontiac G8, all Mustang models both V8,V6. 4 cyl combos. We are racing stockers that are 40 - 65 years old. Do you see our eliminator lasting well into the future status quo. At present I think not.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

As long as the shipping weights are some what close to what the cars actually weigh. Not 500lbs+ lighter.

Re: new A/FX CLASS
 

Billy, and that is what happens when you get overpaid "professional" business people and bean counters at NHRA headquarters, rather than people that are, or at least were, actually racers, or at least had some personal interest in drag racing.