I Need Help With A Math Problem
A good friend of mine has a heads up in Stock second round. So for fun I looked at the HP rating of his competition. Much to my surprise the 1970 Camaro 350/360 in Super Stock was de-rated from 360hp to 325hp 12/19/02. I know the AHFS was in affect at that time and according to the rules: a competitor my have requested a reduction in Hp rating. The scale for reduction was based on the year’s previous runs by that combination. The reduction was written as 1.25% if the fastest run was quicker than -.165 under the National index and the class average was below -.550. If the quickest run was -.115 to -.164 under the reduction was 2.25%. So to receive a 35 Hp reduction using the 2.25 % I believe the start Hp would have to be 1555hp. Would y’all mind running the numbers to check my math. And for example a 15 Hp reduction on an engine rated at 420 the start Hp would have to be 666 Hp. I wonder how all this happened with the AHFS in affect?
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Wouldn't the 420hp example have started out around 480 hp? I'm on par with Jethroe Clampett math wise though.
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If what you say is accurate about hp reduction then you are correct, 360hp at 2.25% should have received 8hp reduction not 35. been that way for 20 yrs Watched this race earlier and if not for a red light itwas going to be a close race! What does that say about the car's hp in the other lane? Both cars are fast and a LITTLE under factored!!!!! LOL
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Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
Larry, you don’t have a math problem …Your problem is Pat C ….If you need HP off a combo contact Jim Hale for help…he can work miracles….
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This is just one example among many across all brands that this has happened to. It was over 20 years ago by Larry's info,, so who knows. This particular engine is the original LT1, 360 in a Camaro and 370 in a Corvette, in 71 they had less compression and were 320 and 330 if my memory is correct. I believe that the stock and SS rating may have been both lowered at the same time. There are some running in both stock and SS.
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Being a performance person, these races are ones I look forward to seeing. Jerry and Andrew have been great drivers for a long time. Too bad Jerry just barely missed the tree. It would have been interesting two really fast cars. Runs like these should be more the norm. Great to watch and guess who will win on that given day. It's too bad the AHFS the way it is written now for me has ruined a big part of Stock I enjoyed. Now almost everyone is trying to go .65 to .85. under. Sad to watch !! I don't get it. BP
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Mr Hill doesn't seem too worried about it, running 1.01 under , and putting himself in the hp pool this morning.
Keep it up ,and maybe the 400 Pontiac, with NO aftermarket heads will catch up a bit. |
Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
The point of the post was how does a combination receive a reduction of 35 Hp in Super Stock using the rules as written wit a maximum of 2.25%. The starting Hp would have to be 1555 Hp X 2.25 %=
34.9875 rounded up 35 Hp reduction. How does that happen and how did it happen on a 420hp reduced to 405 Hp. |
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Those Camaros at 350/325 can thrash our 340/314 Mopars at will!!!
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and I'm pretty sure that a 383/330/281 in H/I/J WITH an available Edelbrock head could win any heads-up race that it got into.
and the same for a 426/365/300 in G/H/I WITH the same Edelbrock head available. |
Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
NHRA needs to realize that favoritism and special treatment outside the published rules will kill the Stock/ Super Stock sport. Everyone suffers from Elephant’s Memory.
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Lonnie, are you listening? |
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There’s a fix it clause, it’s the Hp reduction part in the AHFS. I got my pink car competitive staying with in the published rules. Like they told me that I needed to work on my car and I did. So how does NHRA fix all the racers that have lost to these combos that got reduced outside of the published rules. I know I lost a heads up finial at Indy to one of these special cars, and it still bothers me.
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We NEED a, call it an "oops" clause or an "aww s#!t" clause or a "reset" clause to undo the HP give backs that some combos have already gotten! |
Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
But meanwhile back at the ranch, we ,all of us, are getting hosed by decisions made outside of the rules. I.E. Number 129 qualifier at Indy that did not make the elimination cut. The racer that should have advanced in elimination but got pounded by a gift car in a heads up race. NHRA go by your rules and fix the screw ups.
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Dumbo is begging for HP.....
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GUMP if I can get Dumbo to move in 60' a little quicker it will be ok. At the BG Sports I'm going to try a set of ported heads and a SS intake to see if I can wake him up.
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If I remember correctly, the 350/360 as rated at 390 or 400 HP back when we raced on street tires, around 1973. I remember that because nobody was racing them because of the HP rating. The '69 Z/28 302 is rated at 309 HP now and to race a '70 Z/28 which is rated at 320 HP, there is 110 LBS difference between the cars with the '70 having 48 cubic inches more with the same engine manifold, carb and heads. It's one of the biggest loss of power than any other engine combo.
Casey Miles 248H Stock |
Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
Casey I didn't bother checking, but I'm pretty sure there was a difference in the intake lobes on the cam between '69 Z-302 and '70 Z-350. I think it was around .030 less on the 350.
Might be a little harder to feed those few extra Cu in. Still soft...IMHO |
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Casey Miles |
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Happy Birthday to the great mathematician Larry Hill!
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If this bothers you this much, why not go to the source instead of an open debate forum? And Happy Birthday!? |
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Brett.
I would really like to know who decided to go outside the rules and favor one or two racers. So do you think I would get any kind of answer asking NHRA, but I will try. Thanks so much for the birthday wishes. We hope to see y’all soon. Safe travels and good luck. |
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All the best! |
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while yall got your ciphering hats on (jethro was bodine not clampett) explain the 30+ hp reduction jan 2014 on the 302 2bbl fffords ???????
rendering a perrenial 40 year class competitor totally useless for class eliminations :( thank s jack |
Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
[QUOTE explain the 30+ hp reduction jan 2014 on the 302 2bbl fffords ???????
Jack, if it’s any help, I have personally given back 13 of my 30 hp gift! I started as a natural U car and now I’m a natural R car. If I keep this up I’ll barely be able to run the index in another 5 years. Your friend in horsepower. Kelly |
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Are your sure all the HP came off at once, or was it multiple reductions over many years.
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really funny that one / two combos in D/SA GOT -30HP AND 9632 people care enough to view respond to larry's post ....
but when over 300 combos of 302 2bbl fords get -30hp (all fit u/sa itslast v-8 class) no one but me is pissed ... minimum 2-3 top 10 qualifying spots at indy including several #1s but its only me beating a seemingly dead horse :( captain |
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I think there are better educated responses here, rather than some Johnny Come Lately that NHRA believes knows their stuff, just because they know somebody and got a position.. just my opinion.. |
Re: I Need Help With A Math Problem
Guys,
The last sentence in the AHFS explains the math. "Adjustments are rounded up to the nearest full horsepower even if the fraction is below 0.5 horsepower. As an example, 2.15 horsepower is rounded to 3 horsepower. The quickest run, by the combination being reviewed, is used to determine the adjustment percentage. The decision to adjust horsepower or to increase the index will be at the discretion of the AHFS Committee. |
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Unfortunately Larry !! Archimedes couldn't help you or anyone with this "math problem" We live in the world of upside down !! How is it possible ?? that a 66-283 with more compression an a bigger carb rated at 1 HP less than a 60 -283 ?? or a steel head 69 Camaro rated more than an aluminium head engine ?? Not to mention those FFFords who defy math as we know its !! Cheers !!
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