NHRA At It Again
 

The Arizona Nationals as of 1/4/23 had a quota of 60 in S/S, Stk, S/C, and I think S/G. Seven days later it’s reduced 16.7% to 50 entries per category.

It’s refreshing to know that NHRA is showing no favoritism to East or West in respect to the members having to grab their ankles.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

The entry reduction is even greater.

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Quota are now 70 ???
https://www.nhra.net/2023/nhraracer/NE/23_Quotas.pdf

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

NHRA just changed it from 50 to 70. That's more like it NHRA

A person can see from the time stamp that the quota got changed within the last 60 minutes.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

Guys and Gals, it is time for a little honesty session between partners.
By partners, I mean the members and supporters of NHRA, and the
NHRA. We each have Divisional Representatives in Stock/Super Stock.
My understanding is that they are our Liaison between the Racers, and
the NHRA. I, and I'm sure many others here have represented their
Company's, Employers, Action Groups, etc. as a member of one of these
groups. The purpose of getting these two sides together is to open dialogue
up between the two, so that we better understand each other's challenges,
and pull in the same direction, rather than each group going their own direction. I have been in this sport longer than I care to admit, and now that
I have recently retired, I want to live the dream, and race as much as I want.
But, with continually reduced quotas, and seemingly less importance than I signed up for being put on our classes, all I want is some honesty. If NHRA is going to continue to reduce Quotas, and in effect, ask us to leave, I would like to now. If that is the case, allow us the respect to know
what the 5 year plan is, so we may be guided accordingly. We can alter our course of competitive business, sport and entertainment accordingly.
We are all adults, I believe we deserve respect of being treated in that fashion.

Regards,

J.R. Haddad

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That's great news on the 20 more quota!!!!

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There is 5 less classes at Phoenix than the Gators. No prostock motorcycles, pro mod, TAD. TAFC and no Factory stock showdown. I guess that opened up some more spots for sportsman. Definitely not filling up as fast as the gators.

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So, we stepped away a few years ago, and parked our car. Because of that, I'm asking this question: What has the attendance of the LODRS races been like in the past five years or so? On both sides of the covid stupidity, before and after.


I ask this to see if maybe NHRA is using the shrinking quotas for more than one purpose. If attendance for the LODRS races is down, are they using the shrinking quotas to drive people back to those races to earn more grade points?

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I have not seen any noticeable decline in the car counts at the LODRS events as a result of the actual covid virus scare. I have actually done more racing during the covid era. Fuel was less expensive during the Trump years and covid. Now with fuel near $5 gallon and crazy supply issues some may have had issues with building, fixing and getting parts to keep their race cars and tow rigs running. I dont think there were many that just sat home because of the virus.

The shrinking of quotas is a direct result of NHRA adding classes. Now we have the new FX class starting this year. That will take more of the sportsman quota away at Nationals.
Last year approximately 935 stock eliminator cars competed and scored points. Just over 700 super stock cars ran for points. I would venture to say we have the highest car counts of any other classes but we are getting pushed out by classes that have nowhere near the numbers we have.

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Stock does seem to be the largest of the sportsman classes. I looked back from 2022 - 2017 to see how many Stockers ran a points-earning race of any kind, how many ran at least 5 Divisional races, and how many ran the full slate of 8+ Divisionals each year:

2022: 969 - 287 - 51
2021: 957 - 291 - 73
2020: 850 - 239 - 32
2019: 1077 - 282 - 61
2018: 1077 - 250 - 39
2017: 1088 - 260 - 42

It appears that the pandemic did affect the total number of racers to a decent degree.

The number of racers getting at least their 5 points races has been remarkably consistent.

It does look like the number of racers really maximizing their points potential and/or chasing grade points has been on the rise beginning in 2019, although I'd guess fuel prices put a slight damper on it in 2022.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

Probably a few open races to many of those racers.

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Especially for D1 racers. So many great opportunities within a reasonable tow to earn Grade Points and oh by the way, Real Points.

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Unfortunately D7 racers have only four (4) tracks participating within their LODRS schedule with three doubles. The Open schedule has two (2) tracks, three races with one double.
Long tows, big division. Expensive.

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Skewing those numbers somewhat would be the border shutting down and losing the Canadian racers and races for two of those years.

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Same could be said for D6 and even others Frank. $5-7 diesel is with us for quite a while longer it appears so have to wonder if local associations and even bracket programs will benefit. I’m even beginning to wonder if there is a possibility that AZ will not fill at 70, which of course will prompt NHRA to say “See, you wanted higher quotas and then you didn’t support”. Good news for those with with fewer GP’s of course so obviously hope it does fill. Regardless, all the “big” events will continue to require GP8 to get in. The Quota deal is going to big a huge topic of discussion this year.

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Yes D6 and D5 racers also have challenges collecting Grade Points, D4 racers also have long tows but are among some the most loyal racers competing. Ron Ortiz stated in D2 if you live in south Florida it's a long tow to many races. D3 geographically is fairly tight with good opportunities.
The moral of the story is why has the N.H.R.A. lowered the quotas and placed a hardship on so many racers?

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Because in NHRA's opinion we're (Sportsmen Racers) not the show.

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Gentlemen, Let us not forget NHRA is in the entertainment business and not in racing. Its like F1- about the show and not the racing or competition. Their goal is to make money and sell TV adverting to the mASSES.

Revoke the non- profit and make them pull back the curtain and lets see what is really going on. Sorry, I just woke up from a dream (nightmare).

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Class Racing may not be the "Show" but a major source of revenue for the sanctioning body.
I believe it's the greatest car "show" in America.

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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^is not MY problem! As A member/associate/business partner/investor (pick whichever one you're comfortable with) I SHOULD BE entitled to the same privileges as any other dues paying person/Racer. Maybe it's time for them to stop hiding their dog-and-pony show behind the guise of a not-for-profit!

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

As NHRA continues to add classes, seeking to find "the next new thing" and "draw the new, young crowd", they will find that it costs them their core fans, and their core racers. Their attempt to "be everything to everyone" will be an abject failure.




Honestly, the ONLY that saves them with Stock and Super Stock racers is the large portion of the group that is convinced that they receive the greatest "prestige" from paying large sums of money to NHRA for a 1 in 50 to 1 in 70 chance at a Wally.


What people need desperately to understand is that, if Bo Butner puts on a Stock/Super Stock race with NHRA tech, a week after an NHRA event, and you race the same 5-7 racers at Bo's race that you did at the NHRA race, the real prestige is the same, the only difference is Bo paid you more and treated you better.


If you can't collect enough grade points to get into a National event, and you can't collect enough points to win a championship, or you have decided not to chase a championship, why are you skipping good races put on by good racers, who are treating you well? To go take a shot at a Wally? To collect too few points? To collect a woefully inadequate purse and contingencies?


I'll say this, right here, right now. When we went to Bowling Green for a Stock/Super Stock combo, we raced almost the exact same people and cars we raced the previous weekend at an LODRS race, or would race two weeks later at an NHRA National event. And winning that combo, against the same drivers, and the same NHRA legal cars, was damned sure every bit as much fun, and brought as much pride.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

Alan, good post!
I really want to answer you but I think that I'm going to start another thread. Gonna have to think about this for a bit.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

Stock does seem to be the largest of the sportsman classes. I looked back from 2022 - 2017 to see how many Stockers ran a points-earning race of any kind, how many ran at least 5 Divisional races, and how many ran the full slate of 8+ Divisionals each year:

2022: 969 - 287 - 51
2021: 957 - 291 - 73
2020: 850 - 239 - 32
2019: 1077 - 282 - 61
2018: 1077 - 250 - 39
2017: 1088 - 260 - 42

After looking at the numbers Tony put up, it appears that the ones who complete 8 or more are the ones who fill the quotas for the last couple of years. Understandably. But it sure cuts out a whole lot of others. And that's including all the other grade 8's.
It's their game, I just play in it a little. While it lasts.

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Listen to Bobby Fabio “Insatiable Bunch” video on the other thread and it will open your eyes on how some of the racers think.

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Exactly my point. 100% agree.

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Too late for 70 on the gators?

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Good thing they increased the quota for Arizona, it’s going on the second week and it’s got a whole 28 cars entered in stock! Good thing they were quick with the computer!

Tim Stickles

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

While we ask for NHRA to expand our quotas for a heavily attended on the east coast that filled in 180 seconds NHRA raised the quota to 70 in Az. After a week S/S and Stock are less than half full for the Az race. So will NHRA officials say we raised the quota and us races did not support them?

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Exactly. Not needed at that race.
Customer base East of Mississippi is where the big fields are
And they will say we raised the entry and know one showed. Right On

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If a race fills at 8, it reflects criminal behavior by NHRA.

If the race doesn’t fill at 7, it shows a complete lack of interest.

:rolleyes:

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Weather is a big factor in March there. I’m sure that plays a role plus huge travel time and 800 miles - 12-13 hours from here.

Only having one divisional in Ca pretty much sucks!

From NHRA

National event quotas: How and why they're set
One of the many important duties of NHRA’s Racing Administration department is the setting of class quotas at NHRA national events. Deciding on the number of entrants per class and in total takes into account many factors that reflect the current environment of the events, including historical data, the size of facility, television broadcast times, track and local curfews, weather history, the size and number of haulers, and past on-site experience. Despite quotas being set, at many events already this year racing has run well into the evening or NHRA officials were forced to reduce the number of qualifying passes to time constraints.

Below are some examples of the challenges:

Facility size: In many situations we are limited on the amount of entries we can accept due to overall size of the facility. In Gainesville, approximately 20 teams were parked in the spectator lot.

Live TV: With the move to FS1 and 17 live TV shows changes are made to ensure that segments of racing meet time slots set by FOX.

Curfews/weather: Based on a growing population around many of the facilities, curfews have been established, which limits the amount of time that race cars can be run. That challenge is made tougher early and late in the season when cool weather conditions can produce conditions that are not ideal.

Size of haulers: Over the past several years, the size of haulers have grown, which limits the amount of useable space to have additional cars on property.

NHRA strives to deliver the best experience possible to everyone attending a national event, and the ability to do so is challenged when NHRA is forced to park racers in spectator parking, schedules force us to run late into the evening under conditions that are not ideal, which is why the establishment and enforcement of quotas is so important.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

Below are some examples of the challenges:

Facility size: In many situations we are limited on the amount of entries we can accept due to overall size of the facility. In Gainesville, approximately 20 teams were parked in the spectator lot.

Funny... I've attended the bot the Gator Nationals and Baby Gators in 2020, 2021 and 2022. There has only been 1 time in the 6 races that I saw racers parked in the spectator area - last year at the Gator Nationals. Racers moved out of the traditional pit area to avoid the swamp created by poor drainage after the monsoon rainstorm earlier in the weekend. There was still plenty of room of all racers in the traditional pit area for more rigs even before these racers moved.

Too bad the sale of Atlanta Dragway that was supposed to fund improvements at Gainesville hasn't actually happened to improve the drainage in the back pit area.

I'm not bashing NHRA or their reasons for setting quotes where they do. Several of their arguments are legit and well justified... I just hate it when facts get misconstrued or cherry-picked and end up being leveraged inappropriately.

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

I don't know about the TV schedule.

Gainesville has space for many racers, if the spaces are sized according to number of cars entered by the team.

Does Gainesville have a curfew?

Does Gainesville have lights?

It can be perceived that this years quota is a little light on the historical data factor.

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No curfew and it has lights. We raced at 10PM one night at the Gators years back.





Bret Velde
2003 ??/SA

Re: NHRA At It Again
 

With it being a Sunday and no Honey Do's left on the list I thought take my shoes of and try to do some math.

I looked at a Gainesville that had Stock, and Super Stock Class eliminations.

At this race TF had 25 entrees, FC had 19, PS had 35, PSB had 29, for a total of 108 Pro entrees. I wonder how many Pro teams we will have this year? I guess I should count the alcohol in with the pros since there rigs are the same size. TAD had 15, TAFC had 14. Add those 29 rigs brings the total of pro size rigs to 137.

Now if we add the 70 SG cars, the 104 SC cars, the 89 SS cars, the 109 Stockers, plus the 137 pro type rigs we get a total of 537.

Stock and SS got three shots at the track and the rest of class eliminations.

This is why I think NHRA was a lite on Race History

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Larry, keep in mind that most of the Nitro "Pro Teams" have multiple tractor trailer rigs for a single 2200 pound race car, not to mention "technology trailers", hospitality centers, and, sponsor display trailers, always parked in prime pit spaces. Years ago, I was at Gainesville, where there was Class Eliminations in both Stock and Super Stock, and both classes had more cars trying to qualify, than the 128 cars fields allowed. AND, there were a lot more Pro categories back then as well.

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Don’t forget the Manufacturer Midway
Oh wait a minute…it doesn’t exist
Why is that. Where are them sponsored race trailers?
It’s more like a swap meet just shirts a trinkets

And don’t forget. Credit card only at some venders

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Doesn’t help that so many sportsman racers are pulling in huge stackers with multiple cars, double entering and such. It’s encouraging though that so many are getting their kids/significant others involved and that helps with infusion of new blood. Ton of youngsters doing a great job and for them I’m sure the allure of a National/Wally is very compelling. To essentially turn them away with low quotas does not bode well for growing class racing. The reasons NHRA has given would indicate they have all of these strategic and logistical considerations in play but abruptly bumping up the AZ quota at the last moment would suggest otherwise. They can continue to cater to the Nitro crowd almost exclusively and watch the sport slowly die, lose venues in areas that push EV adoption, or lay out a strategy that truly grows the sport. Otherwise it’s essentially back to bracket racing which is looking more attractive for many. They can start by overhauling the quota system.

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I think that is exactly what they are trying to avoid.

Said another way, NHRA has told me in the past that the ability to get all the cars down the track is a limiting factor on quotas. The number of classes that allow burnouts past the starting line has exasperated the problem in my opinion.

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AZ has opened up for GP7, looks like 6’s will probably get a shot. Pomona (quota of 60 as usual) already almost half full in Stock. Gators quota still mystifies, what I really hate about that is it will hurt attendance at the Baby Gators, which features GREAT Class Racing.