Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comments
 

Alright guys,

I sat down with Lonnie Grim, and I have to say it was a very enlighten and pleasant conversation. One of the first things he said to me after I introduced myself was "CUSTOMER" He really does get it. He told me of the importance of making the customer happy. Even if its just a polite hello as we roll through the gate getting parked.

So here we go... the first idea from Lonnie. How would you all feel about a purse increase. The entry fee for national events is 340, how would you feel about paying another $100 with all of the 100 going back to the racer. 64 cars = 6400, They start paying back in 4 round. Double round money in 4th rd, 5th and runner up. The winner would get the rest. If I did my math right it would be another 3000 for the winner on top of what NHRA pays now. I maybe off a little, but you get the idea.

Second... one period for the AFHS. Instant horsepower at 1.30, but you can go fast at a few races but still bring your average down by the end of the season if needed. We did not talk numbers for what the trigger is, but he would love to here ideas from us. He knows Stk/SS is a performance based class and he knows we would like to run fast and not get hammered every time.

Third... All class race winners where class is held would qualify. Say there was a 64 car field at the Gators. All class winners are in and whats ever left would be the fastest under the index, just like years back. Also opening quotas to say 80 cars, but you have to qualify to make the 64 car field. These numbers could be different, I just want give you an idea on qualifying to race.

Fourth... Shipping weights. We all know the guide is full of combos that don't reflect real world shipping weights. But we also know that people have been using the guide to build there combs. Its not our fault that wrong weights were submitted. One idea is to correct all the shipping weights but let everyone move up or down 2 classes. Another idea would be to run the class they wanted as long as the weight is correct for horsepower claimed. These are just Ideas guys... How would you fix the shipping weight issue? leave it alone or try to fix it?

The one thing I got from the time I spent with Lonnie is... he knows we are customers and we should be treated with respect. He is definitely an advocate for the racer. He wants us to have a great experience when we are here. He wants the racer to feel they can say NHRA is a great place to race. He knows it will take time, but he is willing to listen and make changes for the future.

I know we can not make everyone happy, but we need to come together on things we agree on to improve NHRA for the sportsman racer.

Lets talk ideas and please be respectful... I don't want to here NHRA bashing, its a waste of time and does not help improve our sport.

Chime in guys, if you want changes... now is the time, what do you think of the ideas above?

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

How about class at all divisionals or at the very least each division gets one race where class gets contested.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

How about natl records are forever and are worth at least a few points (once per season). I don't know of any other sport where natl records are only good for two years?

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

I like the third. I guess that would only effect Indy though. Some Divisions (2) have sponsors for number 1 qualifiers. Our announcer likes to give out small prizes as bounty prizes for beating the last winner. Some of the excitement at Stock/Superstock combo races are door prizes. I guess my point is NHRA could find sponsors for some gifts for a few things to make it fun again. Best engineered, best looking, number one qualifier are something of the past at most divisionals. Plenty of things like that. There is a "Right on Trailer" for Nationals. Spread the wealth to divisionals.

Paul

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

I agree the quota needs to be raised. Not a fan of the eliminations not being all run. I think that would be counter productive to grow the class. Adding another $100 to the already high national event entry fee is also tough to swallow with fuel prices near $5.50 per gallon. NHRA should look to a sponsor to increase the sportsman pay out. Class winners should get some points for winning class. That also means class would have to be run at the national events and not like it is here in D2 with class run at the baby gators and not at the national event weekend. It is good that Lonnie is interested in improving sportsman racing. Just hope he doesn’t pander to only the guys with thick wallets.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

How about an experience that doesn’t send half the competitors home the first day!?
We spend a lot of money and time to do these prized national events and we still get treated like dog crap when it comes to schedule!

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

What could be done to fix that ?

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

i think it time to think let all stock elim engines run roller lifters since their are no coated solid chev lifter im the country to be had and 1800 to 2000 dollars is plain crazy lonnie if you check you will see this is driving cost way to high for average racers think its time for a change

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

I wasn't really planning on running that many National events due to the cost/payout,but I'll throw in my $4.42.

1)The entry is so high already,another $100 isn't too bad if it would actually go to the Stock racers and not 10% to the BIG GUY.

2) The AHFS is such a manipulated system that might as well just abolish it.

3) Class winners automatically qualify should have never changed.If you must qualify to race,I'm out.I have one of the slowest cars in the class and would not bother paying $5 a gallon for gas to get there and not possibly qualify.The quota system needs a standby list once full.And the quotas should be raised.

4) Shipping weights.I already commented a few months ago that any car should be able to run any class that it can fit into.Along with that,the 170 pounds extra for the driver should be eliminated.If your horsepower rating is 300 and you want to run E,that is 3000 pounds minimum weight.Period.

5) The schedule.I can't imagine driving all the way to Charlotte and having to run first round already tomorrow.I know the weather is a problem often,but I see a 0% chance of rain on Friday and a 20% chance of rain on Saturday.Why are they running first round tomorrow already? The Pros run 4 wide,so that shouldn't take that long.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Tech cars again.
All they need to do is enforce the rules they already have.
And NHRA needs to stand behind the tech official and not FOLD!!

Another thing that would be nice is to quit making the races shorter by days . Like said above give people what they pay for a great experience ! What’s wrong with 3 qualifiers at a national event . Also make the quotas higher these tracks can fit hundreds of cars . When I started racing stock in 2009 all I wanted to do is go to a national event and run class ! And it was a blast then , now a days it’s a joke ! Hell if you have a bad outing by the time your buddies come on Saturday to watch you , your home lol . Idk what the fix for any of it is , but it lost its luster for me that’s why I sold all my stuff . Hopefully they can make it fun again !

If they truly want to see how to treat a "customer" go to the class racer revival or Bo's race he put on thats how you do it !!

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

totally agree

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

64 & 128 car qualified fields at national events with no entry quotas.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Entry fee already too high for the payout. Adding the extra 100 would only lead us to being like Pro Mod and paying our own purse if we want to race

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

I am a wanna be S/S racer. Nat events are already too expensive for the experience of being a time filler between pros, to me. $440 entry fee for 1 race is silly and a deterrent to a larger portion of the racers or wanna be racers, IMO. The reviews about the CRR and Bo's race last year where glowing and complimentary on here, but from the outside it showed me that a lot of folks don't care about the purse being increased. That thought based on both racers struggling to get car counts. This year CRR struggled ahead of time and almost got cancelled before the weather took it out. (NOT KNOCKING THESE GUYS RACES OR THEIR HARD WORK!!) I currently only bracket race around Michigan and hope to jump to S/S in the next ~2yrs. I fully expect all of my money spent on racing to not come back. I didn't make it out of the 1st round all last year. I don't do it because of the purse size, rather because I love it. I view drag racing as a fun/ $ spent equation. $440 off the top makes it UN-FUN to me. I can bracket race ~2-3 days for that cost. I get that it 'isn't the same' but squeaking out a .010 light and .004 MOV round win IS really fun and the opponent, lack of fans or Pros on the property doesn't matter, to me. Just my unsolicited $.02 :)

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

How about preparing the track?

I ran the NMCA race at Rockingham last weekend, no issues. Same car at Charlotte, blow the tires off....

For the money we spend, we should have the best possible racing surface.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

I had the same thing happen to me Gump, when I questioned the starting line crew the answer was: "you need to work on your car"

Its NHRA the track should be the show place.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Glad to hear Lonnie is open to ideas.
As far as raising the purse great idea.
Raising entry fees is a bad idea. Think about it like this. Nhra can change the payouts anytime they want to. If you pay 100 more this year and next year they want to lower the payout and pay more in another class. You still pay the 100 more.
Quotas need to go up. How can you attract new customers if they know they probably can’t race at nationals. There is already lots of people who would go to national events that can’t because the quota is too low.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Raise the purse without raising entry fee. With 80 entries and 64 spots, no byes, the extra money for the purse will come from the DNQ’s. Class winners, must run on or below National index. If Class is not contested the fastest car in that class that runs under the index will be the place on the ladder of 64 as the class winner. The rest of cars will be place on ladder based on how far under the index they qualified.
The type of cars in stock will be more varied with everyone looking for “their class. “
The AHFS will work a little better since there will be a need to run the cars harder to qualify for the race. A racer will have to decide if it’s better to not qualify or up the average to above -.850 under.

Shipping weights: “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.”

What I believe needs some attention is the is the Hp ratings of the new cars, 2020-up.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

The idea to eliminate the 170 pound driver weight wouldn't be fair. You have Larry Hill who is a very tall man, and might be a tad over 170. Conversely,
you may have a jockey sized person who may be 120. The driver weight
rule as written is equitable. On increased purses, raise the quotas, the money is sitting there, begging to be taken. On additional fees to raise the
purse, for National events, see above, for points meets, which we all run
more of than national events, an additional 100.00 that is optional, you pay
the extra 100.00, you can win more money, you don't pay, you get the posted payout. Additionally, weigh the extra money a little more towards the semi-finalists and runner-up, with extra money for the winner, just not as weighted to the winner as in the past. They get a little extra contingency.

J.R.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Here's a couple from me.
1- The AHFS does not work at all. Put some common sense into it, look at MPH in relation to ET, 1/8 mile ET/MPH, etc.
2- Straighten out some of these grossly under rated cars that play the game. For example, factoring the same engine grossly different whether the it's in a Firebird or Corvette, for example, doesn't make sense. There are other examples as well.
3- Sorry to disagree with a couple of previous posters, but no roller lifters unless it's OEM.
4- If you're going to raise the purse, spread the money out. Don't just pay it to the winner and runner-up.
5- Put the Drag Paks, Cobra Jets and new COPOS into Super Stock where they belong. They've all got mechanical rollers, CNC-ported cylinder heads and 9" Ford rears.
Jim Kaekel, Jr. #3836

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Sure, I owe myself some me-time. Mr. Grimm, we've never met although I hope to meet you at some time. I would hope that anything I have to say here will cause you no offense.


Ya know, just something to think about, I have ALWAYS been a Member of the NHRA. There is a world of difference between a Member and a Customer!


First, I haven't raced at a National Event in a few years by choice so I may not have a right to comment on this but......... I will because I DO support your Divisional Races and am a long-time Member.
At National Events, the NHRA Cash Purse hasn't changed in over 25 years. The NHRA Contingency Program is a pittance of what it was 25 years ago. National Event Entry Fees have gone up significantly as have Membership Fees. Why should I as a Member/Customer suddenly be made to "make" my own purse? I don't like it.

Second, make the AHFS one period? Ok, with a couple of real world suggestions, leave the "triggers" alone. Start using eighth-mile times to help weed out the "sandbaggers" and "welfare recipients" and increase a real Tech Inspection presence.

Third, all Class Winners at an Event where Class is run SHOULD be in! And there SHOULD be at least a few Races a year that have a large enough number of entries to make it a Qualified Field.

Fourth, the shipping weights that are being looked at have been the way that they are for decades. Leave them alone. Leave the "one-up-or-one-down" alone also. Changing this would just be another step towards S/SS becoming ET-2. HOWEVER, if you feel the need to go making changes to the Guides then why don't you have the Tech Dept. start reviewing some of the "revisions and changes (and enhancements)" that have been handed out in the Technical Guide over the years? I mean, the "people have been using the guide to build their combos" from the Technical Guide too. And the Technical Guide gets "manipulated" far more often than the shipping weights in the Classification Guide do.

Mr. Grimm, I will look forward to meeting you and possibly having a nice discussion some day. Good Luck in your position, you'll need it!

Billy Nees 1188 Stock/SS/ET..

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Agree, cars running motors that were not originally available to the general public from the dealer belong in Super Stock. Plus, I think there are legitimate safety concerns of stock racers barely going 100 mph at the finish line getting chased down by 1400 HP factory race cars going 150 mph+. The vast differences in required driver/race car safety devices suggest they should not be on the track at the same time.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Be careful where you're going with that or you'll be putting a cage and harness in your 16 second Omni!

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

How about this, run a full bracket of First round losers, the winner gets points towards their Division...and a gratuitous trophy or plaque. Maybe this could justify the cost of running a National.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Got my %^$ handed to me on a platter for suggesting it.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Got another request....please quit allowing aluminum cylinder heads on cars that never came from the factory with them. If someone wants aluminum heads and mechanical roller lifters, there's a place for them. It's called Super Stock.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Why pay extra entry and cut out third round pay out? If Nhra needs more money, increase field size like when Indy was 180 and 128 qualified. Let us turn it loose at Indy. Put the Jegs allstars in Columbus and stop the stupid class final runoffs by 2 fastest cars. Shipping weights are the least problems in S/SS.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

The biggest problem you have is the rest of Nhra management doesn’t think like Lonnie does. They don’t care……

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

This could also be fixed by getting rid of all the outdated slow cars that nobody but old people can relate to....

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Ouch! GUMP

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Gump, assume you mean cars like Lyn Smith’s 55 but does it include the Shelby Mustang of Bill Hawk? Just wondering about your definition of “old”..

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Daren poole -Adams, probably the stupidest comment any one could make, the old people you talk about are all thats left in stock and super stocks racing.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

1. First let us see the salary increases for the NHRA top executives for the past 30 years and figure out the percentage of pay increase they have got over the years . Then ask why they got an increase but the racers purse stayed the same for that long and eatery feels and memberships went up .

2. Instead of increasing the entry to a National event how about they increase the number of cars that can enter to a full field 128 car and increase the payout anyhow even if it means some of the top executives take a SLIGHT pay cut to show good faith for the love of the sport and organization and more important the racers who pay their salaries . Not to mention more T.V coverage of sportsman racers so we have a better chance for sponsors

3. The shipping wright thing only thing I would add is do away with the 170 driver math

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Simple answer in my mind, make NHRA fun again. I don't care if you run a Factory Stock or a Q/SA. I grew up idolizing my Dad and his buddies that chased around this country hoping to race a National Event. National Events have lost their luster for the Sportsman Racer in my mind, which is unfortunate. Sign me up for the first Time Machine Ride back to the mid 1980's please...

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Ask the professionals!

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

All participating drivers should be e- mailed a survey allowing us (the customer) to grade everything from the gate to the starting line.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

64 cars times $340. entry fee equals $21760. Surely they could bump up the pitiful round money and finalist payout without digging even deeper into the "customers" pockets. If they can`t sharpen their pencils enough to find where all the remaining entry money disappeared to, open up the quotas.
As mentioned, if you want to run solid roller lifters in an engine that left the factory with a hydraulic flat tappet cam, add a second "S" to the class designation on the windows.
As for "getting rid of all the outdated slow cars that nobody but old people can relate to", you mean eliminate the very cars that Stock and Super Stock were based upon? Like cars that were available new to the general public, with a production VIN number, and the same engines, transmissions and rearends as those cars that anybody to drive of the lot? Also, when I look at the typical Stock -S/S racer in the pits, I have to say, the vast majority are "old enough" to relate to traditional Class cars. I can certainly relate more to a 69 Mustang with a 428 Cobra Jet , like I used to drive to work, or my old neighbors SS396 Chevelle, that a 2022 "modern race car", that can basically race in Stock with a Competition Eliminator engine, a 2 speed automatic, and a solid 9" Ford rearend!

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

Have you not noticed all the bald or grey haired old men running stock and super stock. Lol

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

OUCH, that left a mark!


OBTW, don't get out the tar and chicken feathers yet.
Having spoken to Gump on a number of occasions, I'm pretty sure that he is just kidding.

Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
 

I will say this. If Lonnie is a true internal advocate that wants to make improvements, I would say he needs to consider what change or changes might be feasible from all sides. Then we should be considering how we can help. If we all draw hard lines on whatever pet idea we have, nothing will change and we could chase away a person thst could help our sport.

We need to find ways to help him help us. He may not be able to do a lot, but let’s support whatever change he can get pushed through that improves our experience and prove that he was right to listen and act on our behalf.

The NHRA execs have absolutely no clue what motivates racers that are into performance. They just know it costs them more to support us. If they really knew that each time they take the performance incentives away from class racing, they pull away the part that motivates us and sets them apart from every other bracket race in the country. They don’t understand that performance motivated racers don’t see pure bracket racing as an option. Maybe Lonnie can help learn and educate the non racer leadership at NHRA.

In my view, Lonnie may have some interest in keeping the class racer in play. Let’s support any positive efforts he puts forward and show appreciation for his effort. The NHRA execs don’t typically reward anyone that takes initiative to support class racers. He could use our support.