Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Do you want to see racers qualify with all out runs?
Do you want to make the AHFS system work.
Give the racer a reason to cut her loose!
How about a first round BYE?
Not just for #1..... but how about 1-10 byes in round one?

Do you know anyone that would rather run against someone in round 1 rather than take a BYE run?... (answer is NO)
If someone wants to take a chance that their -.90 run will get them in the top ten (while running their restrictor plate, they take a chance that others will bump them out of the BYE group.
Here's where we use "Out of the box thinking"... NHRA uses a "randomizer" after all qualifying is complete, and then lets everyone know how many bye runs there will be. One week there could be 10, next week 7, next week 5... who knows? Maybe they even guarantee 5 first round byes per race. Then everyone shoots for top 5
Just look at the guys that cut her loose at the end of the year to get #1 spots for nothing more than a first round BYE,10 more points, and not having to run anyone in the dreaded first round! If more people are chasing a first round BYE, more people go fast and make the AHFS work.... "It ain't that hard to do"
REWARDS BRING RESULTS

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

And the ladder formula is?

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

....should not be an issue - just something different.

example #1 ... 64 car field
NHRA gave top 8 a bye run (the rest run rd 1 on a normal 56 car ladder).
rd two would be reladdered with the 8 byes and the 28 winners (new 36 car ladder).

It's not that hard.. with in the first couple of weeks, someone will have a new ladder book for all to use (for every situation available)

OR.....

Better yet
example #2.... (same scenario as example #1 - 64 cars with 8 byes earned)
Just use the standard 72 car ladder!
(1vs37, 2vs38, 3vs39... 8vs44)
All you would have to do is insert dummy entries called #BYERUNS into the qualified field for qualifier 37-44 droppng everyone else down 8 spots to fill out the 72 car ladder.
Easy Peasy... case closed

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

So 59 cars pay entry money. You need a 69 car ladder. No time and money involved there.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Just our special classes need this too. I'm sure NHRA would say "perfect"

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Kinda off subject, but if someone goes -1.20 and has to tear down, and is certified legal, and the run is under the current NHRA record, I think NHRA should give them the record. As it is, you get NOTHING for going -1.20 except the 'privilege' of tearing down and getting HP-what?

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Tom, I respectfully disagree with everything you and a lot of others have voiced on this forum regarding how to fix the AHFS system. Like most people with an agenda to get "soft" combinations HP, they only have tunnel vision for the FIX but do not see the big picture. Is there under factored combinations, YES!!! Have those competitors played within the rules of NHRA to keep their HP factors down, YES!!! Sorry nobody wants to destroy there combo to be #1 at a nothing divisional or national event!!!

What nobody here is mentioning is how "OLD" combos got HP!!! Class runoffs and rivalries within a specific class. Being the badest B/SA or GT/HA car use to mean something. But now everyone dodges everyone to avoid heads ups in the "eliminator"!!! Given the 30 newly added FS, FSS and FGT classes, manufacturer crate motor GT combos, the dozens of mid "80's & '90"s combinations in STK/SS added in the last decade, stockers running SS, the loss of shipping weights in GT and cars being able to run SS or GT with same combo...all that coupled with class runoffs being cut down by more than half, a Performers Award system that disappeared overnight, lowered quotas at National Events, an annual review period(instead of semi annual) and the price of engines being North of 50k in SS, ya I'm gonna say that getting HP will be nearly impossible moving forward!!!


So instead of trying to MF all the guys with soft combos by adding ridiculous measures on them(ie. checking weight at the scales, restrictor plates, 1000' increments +++) why doesn't the SRAC and the NHRA simply bring back what is proven to work???!!! OHHH and just curious on who will be the mathematician "chosen one" that will figure out everyone's backhalf splits, how fast they "could have gone" with 115#'s out of the car!!! No offense, but I'm not exactly confident in most peoples ability to do simple math.

But keep pounding your personal agendas...just like all the other special interests groups in Canada and the USA, I'm positive that you will get your way!!! If you guys want everyone to be the same...there index classes you can run! STK and SS are performance based classes!

PS: How did that whole AHFS at Indy thing work out for the less than 20% of racers that wanted it!!! That's what I thought...The problem with thinking other people are stupid does not automatically make you smarter than them. ;) IMHO

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Give points to #1 qualifier, a little competition at getting points along with the bye run may help.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Kevin, Where are we going with this? I don't disagree with much of what you said, but what would be your plan?
Tom put forth his. NHRA isn't going to do it, but that's the theme here.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

AHFS will never work with its current leadership. Now if Lonnie Grimm cleans house/ eliminates the problem, then it might have a chance but let’s face it AHFS has had the same problems 10-15 plus years now.
1. You can run -1.10 at an event and go to the next event and make 2 passes at -.55 to bring your average back to under-.80 making it safe from HP.
This window to lower your combo average are passes of -.85 to -.35. This window is way to big. I mean how can some make an argument that one weekend a guy runs -1.00 and the next weekend there making runs at below -.60. to pull the average down. There is no logic to this window. Personally, if a combo can run -1.00 then no runs under -.65 should count in lowering the class average

2. I Think the most important thing that will help AHFS work and put NEEDED performance back in the SS/STK class is going to a 48 or 64 car field at ALL National events (But INDY). Let’s face it the national event quotes are not going back to 80 plus cars per class at most national events so let’s just meet in the middle make all the quotes 70 cars per stk and ss. This will make guys step on there cars a little more frequently. I personal would like to see 48 car national event fields with around 60-65 car quotes. This would reward the #1 with the potential semi final bye into the final. I would leave points meet at 128 car fields and national open at all run field. This would create a kind of steppingstone affect for the class depend on you combos performance. This would also eliminate the 105 points Issue for winning a 6 or 7 round national event (East Coast VS West Coast) if all the National events were a 6 round max to win.

3. All runs of over -1.00 should have a min carb/TB check, casting # check and a PG if time permitting.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

I'm old enough unfortunately to remember before the AHFS . One fast run got you hp. Tuff cookies for the others with that combination. I believe NHRA tried to come up with a system that didn't chase the guy or gal out that didn't have the knowledge or the bank roll to keep up. Making a tweak like throw out the mineshaft races and seeing what happens for a year or two could change things. At least something like that. For example the divisional race at Boise this year in stock had 37 cars. 13 were a second or more under and it went mineshaft. So none of those runs mattered. I would have to research to see how many races went mineshaft. Could be very few. It would be a job at this point to add them in now and look at combination averages. Again just a change to one thing and see what happens. Looking under the hood at least for a second under run isn't the end of the world either.

Paul

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

I am certainly no expert on how the AHFS was intended to "level the field" with so many classes, but wouldn`t it be nice if any car that ran quick enough to cause a HP increase, was at least given a full teardown to ensure that it was indeed legal at the time of the run?

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

There will always be racers to manipulate any system in place for their own benefit, and why wouldn't they. No system is perfect and performance Awards would be nice.

I think an easy way for the AHFS to work is to lower the trigger to -.50 under. This would make it very difficult to bring the average down and protect the combo. I know people will say this only helps the "slugs" but it may also promote new blood into the class as any system should be what is best for the sport not the individual.

These are just my thoughts so flame away

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Probably easier to just give the bye to however many cars there are above 64. 70 cars means the top 6 cars get a bye. 65 cars means only number 1 gets a bye. No crazy new formulas for an unknown ladder. Would this apply to national events only?

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

I do like a first round bye, but I think making #1 qualifier a contingency paying position for national and divisonals would be very effective as well.....kind of like what class used to be expect better.....who wouldn't want their products on the #1 qualifier? #1 qualifier really should be looking at the same if not more than the contingency for winning the race. It wouldn't be boring at least. Eric

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Even pay the top 5 qualifiers. Make it a little more incentive for it not to be a bracket class. Go back to giving a round point to the number one qualifier as well.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

All of this is easy. You said someone goes -1.10 under one race then run -.55 under twice to bring average down. All Nhra has to do on those runs is take the 1/8 mile numbers and run them against the -1.10 under run the week before. Doing this would fix a lot of combos in about 6 months.

Disclaimer: I no longer run SS anymore but still like to read all the posts about s/ss. Just my .02

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Ed, Please give me a call today.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

That wont work!!
They dont run fast to the 1/8 and then lift,they just go slow (on 2 barrels or a stop in the linkage etc.)
Anyone that has been .850 (.950) under or more during the period should not qualify for supplying any runs slower than that to AFHS

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Quote: Kevin, Where are we going with this? I don't disagree with much of what you said, but what would be your plan?
Tom put forth his. NHRA isn't going to do it, but that's the theme here.

Mark, I thought I was pretty clear on how to "FIX" the AHFS. Bring back performance to the STK and SS Classes. More class runoffs(we use to have class for either STK or SS at every National Event, some had both (Indy, Gators and Vegas) plus we also had 3 Sports Nationals! Bring Back the Performers Award. Perhaps points for top 5 or top 10 qualifiers, points for class winners? More review periods, not less. I like Charlie's idea for qualifying 64 cars at National Events; however it will not make the top half push themselves anymore than they do now....the bottom half are the ones that will need to start running it out or harder thus probably pushing the fields into "mineshaft" more often and negating more 1 sec under runs which would have triggered reviews for HP.

Most of the competitors voicing their displeasure with "soft combinations" and the AHFS system not working are also competitors(generally speaking) which at one time had under factored combos themselves. They ran them hard, received HP over a long period of time and now are pissed because other guys are in the same position they were 10-20 years ago. And that is another huge problem....it took a lot of the older combos a decade or more to get all the HP they have today...but just like Millennials everybody needs everything right away, "Instant Gratification"!!! If you want the system to work then don't move classes, chase guys down with those combos and make them run hard! Ohhh but that 's right, you might have to be the sacrificial lamb a few times to get results... Yes it will take time for them to get HP put on those combos, just like all the other combos before them and probably longer now due to the dilution of the classes and lack of performance rewards. But it will happen.

Changing or "tweaking" the AHFS to MF all these combos in 1 or 2 years is nothing but absurd and childish!!! Like I said before, there is more than one way for the competitors with these combos to get around receiving mass quantities of HP....If you think they will just play into your hands and destroy their s@#t for a #1 qualifying position at a nothing race, that's crazy!

PS: Mark there are two other options...work on your stuff or change your stuff!!! IMHO

Rant over....the minority groups will prosper in todays societal environment!

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Thanks for clarifying ..You're on the record..Thank you

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Quote Kevin Gaffney: PS: Mark there are two other options...work on your stuff or change your stuff!!! IMHO

Kevin you knocked it out of the park. I have a EFI combo that seems to be the target of the special agenda. One thing I can tell you is there are several combos that I cannot out qualify, but for some reason they go unnoticed. D1 modified car is one example, bad *** car that runs like a pro stocker. Gove is an example of how fast a modified car should run, he works his *** off. Thank goodness for him that the special interest are not in his classes or he would be on the radar. I agree with your comment (work on your stuff or change your stuff!!!) seems people would rather spend big money on motor homes than their race car and that's their choice. The new normal is you no longer have to bring yourself up, when its easier to bring the others down to you.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Very well said.........you took the words right out of my mouth.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Don't forget the AHFS is a doubled edge sword. If you work within the rules it can be rewarding.

When we first got the truck out in the mid nineties the AHFS was non existence. How performance penalty's were handed out, in my opinion, were unfair and arbitrary. Case in point, Topeka Q1 we go fast 1.00 plus under index with at least a 15 MPH tail wind. We get tore down checked and pass, we get informed we will get HP Monday. I ask the question, If I was setting a record would I be awarded the record with a 15 MPH tailwind? The answer was NO, too much tailwind for a record to be established. I could not get a record under those weather conditions but I was getting HP. Fair, I think not.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

This is a Performance Base Class work on your **** the fast will always be fast because they put the work in to make it fast and to keep it fast. The combo's that have been protected are still good because all those poeple worked together for the most part to keep them that way. I'm all for points for qualifying and more heads up and this is coming from the dad that let his kid get his teeth kicked in a heads up semi final round but it is what it is
Just my 2 cents Stephen Belanger

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

"Protecting" a combo indicates to me it's under factored. Case in point, 350/255. Sorry James. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

No way that combo is under factored. Hmmn let me think a certain 1969 Dart with the 383 is way under factored. But more power to him. He worked on it and protects it. Nothing stopping anyone from buying or building one.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Really? You pick the wrong combo. 350/255 at 280 HP. Under factored? ��
First of all the car BANGING my combo is a 1970-to 1972 move claiming as a1969 nova
Is that fair? Do I get to change the front bumper?
How about the 1982 to 1985 camaro. At 263hp
Combo takes a 122 under hit
Monday gets hp. By Thursday gets a new front bumper and loses EARNINED HP
So there the problem with AHFS. It’s not applied when earned
FACTS. So please think first when throwing stones

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Yeah Frank, I think you're a little bit off on this one. The 350/255 has been getting beat up since it was new.
Let us not forget all of the old wedge combos that got loads of HP reductions during the old Gracia days. There's still a few of them that are real soft.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

James,
I love your passion but I'm not throwing stones if I'm wrong I stand corrected. But part of my example and I should have clarified this is that the only original part required on the 350/255 is the intake manifold, am I wrong? And I believe because of that some racers are protecting that combo.

Billy,
As far as the Max Wedge example, Dan Dvorak (RIP) was pretty tight with some unnamed NHRA Tech guy(s) in Glendora.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Billy,
If you're implying that Steve Wann's '62 combo is soft, why? I only ask because nobody before him was able to make a 413 fall out of a tree. John's '64 car is very fast but with the AA/SA 10.70 index I don't believe he can run a .40. Did I miss someone?

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

I maybe wrong but to my recollection the AHFS was in place the year the ‘62 413/420 went to 405 and no one went down the track in one that year. I believe it was a stroke of the pen that got it down to 405 although the rules were in place. I also believe the the ‘70 350/360 now at 325 received the the same loving care. 12/19/02 for both on reduction date. I do not know if the Camaro 350/360 made any runs that year.
I could be wrong!

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

I didn't say anything about MAX wedge.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

It's funny how that works.......................sometimes.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Billy, You ignorant slut. In Mopar land if you refer to a car as a Wedge it is immediately associated with the connotation MAX!
Also if you're referring to a D4 426 Street Wedge getting a HP reduction a few years ago oddly I agree it was misguided. Maybe the 383 needs a few HP too.
How's that for honesty?
I now need to say a prayer of forgiveness to the Mopar God.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

You're forgiven son but your penance in h&ll will be working on FFFords for eternity!

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

You are not Tom Hoover!

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

.................................................. .....

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

Billy you have a PM.

Re: Easy way to help AHFS work
 

You guys are crackin' me up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM