Stick vs Auto
 

Generic question but has anyone done a solid test on a stick vs auto for the same combo? Looking at a 350 Chevy Stocker combo?

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Wow !! Bubski can hear the crickets on this one !! All indexes should be the same !! Stick or Auto!! Bubkis’s thinking!! U can spend at least the same or more on an Auto combo as a Stick !! Why shouldn’t the indexes reflect that ?? Bubski knows y !! All the .1 to .25 indexes in favor of the Autos would BUTT hurt the nice people with the Autos that are more than happy to get away with their Weak ArSe combos !!

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

I'm asking because my auto combo is rated at 287 HP but the stick is rated at 275 HP which I think is opposite of what you are suggesting. I think. The index is only a tenth different.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

I know this will make LOTS of stick racers mad. But if you really wanna win some rounds & races, go with the auto.

I've run both, in Stock, and auto in lots of bracket races. Breakout style racing requires consistently good lights, as well as consistent ET's.

Now if all you wanna do is have some fun makin passes, or if you wanna build a killer heads-up car, that's different.

Yankin on the 4-speed was lots of fun. But I enjoyed winning, even more ! :)

NO, I DIDN'T say a stick car can't win a race. They've won lots of 'em thru the years. Won a few myself.

BUT, it's my own PERSONAL opinion that you have a better chance of winning more rounds & races with an auto trans.

Opinions differ. :)

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

That line of reasoning may be a bit outdated. Just like saying automatics are slower. There have been a lot of improvements on automatics, sticks and clutches that might change this old school opinion. There are more things to do in a stick car for sure and I guess with all of the legal driver aids such as auto shifts one could make the case. That being said, sticks are winning at a competitive rate compared to the number of stick cars that exist.
I am sure anyone comparing equipment from a while back or used outdated equipment would find consistent lights and ets a challenge.
I don’t think that holds water any longer if a racer takes advantage of the latest technology.

Oh and to reference the HP difference. I don’t think most of the HP hits would have taken place for automatics if the indexes were the same as stick shifts in some classes. I won’t say they all line up, but many should be combined and run off the same index in my opinion.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

This might help someone who is undecided, make up their mind.

There are a lot of people who post here who are retired & no longer race. So, maybe some of ya'll, who have the time & wouldn't mind doing it, could search back thru the DRC records & record the number of stick vs auto wins at nat events. DRC has over 20 year of records.

Anyone really interested could also look up the division races. I'd be interested in those figures myself, but not enuff to do the research.

"...I don’t think that holds water any longer if a racer takes advantage of the latest technology..."

Stick cars were winning races long before 21st century technology was available. Pontiac history is what I'm most familiar with. So, when I think if stick cars, I immediately think of the stick Pontiacs I remember. The Truman Fields cars come to mind. His 1st car won Stock @ Indy in '73, with him driving, & in '77 with Mike McKinney driving. Well, I assume there were plenty of auto cars entered, at both races.

I remember seeing Jack Mullins snatchin gears in his old Pontiac wagon. He won Indy in '75. Probably had to run several auto cars to do it. Also won the Sports Nats that year, IIRC. So, even with old technology, there were SOME drivers who could stick race good enuff to win races.

BUT, what percentage of races have been won by stick cars, in the last 20, 30, or even 40 years ?

Just as strictly a side note here, and only because I'm a Pontiac Freek, I figure most guys ran a stick in the '64-'66 GTO's because the only legal auto trans was the 2-speed, which some call a Super Turbine 300. I think I read that all the 2-speed only cars can now run a 3-speed. Is that correct ? :confused:

Just for numbers trivia, I checked the Stock Q-list at Indy in 2000 & 2010. Out of the 128 field, in 2000, there were 39 stick cars. In 2010, there were 26 stick cars. Gotta be reasons why MOST Stock racers choose an auto trans.

You can find all sorts of interesting info from the numbers on DRC. Some of the Indy Stock winners cut a string of lights with the worst being below .030. Most were below .020. Not many stick racers can cut 7 lights in a row, less than .030.

Here's an example: Peter Biondo's worst light was an .026, in round one. Best light .000, in the final. WOW ! :eek:

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Yep.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

No one ever told that to the Waldo's,Calvert,Helms,etc.:D

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Rich,

My 68 428 Cobra Jet with a stick is factored @ 366HP, With an Automatic it is factored @
380. Why? because there were so many Auto cars beating the crap out of the index over the years and very few Stick cars beating their index. I am assuming this is the same for your combo.

Racing a stick is much more fun than an Auto and you can win just the same. Good racers/Drivers win regardless of stick/Auto IMO. I only switched to an Auto for now because my daughter will drive it next season. That Nova would be a fun ride as a stick. Good Luck.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Keen, Peters, Comella, Zaskowski


It's no secret there are more automatic cars out there. Those number comparisons won't work.
I remember 2-3 stick drivers in the Top 10.That's a huge number by comparison.
Brad Z finished #2 in S/S a couple years ago. I believe he was the only stick driver in the first 200.. Does that say that he was a better driver than the first 199 automatic drivers? Can it be then said it's easier to win with a stick S/S-er? You be the judge.
Also no secret that stick cars require more drive line maintenance. Some folks are unwilling or not motivated to do that work. Some auto cars sit in the box all week long. When they come out, they're not winning anything either.

Bracket racing ; I've won brackets with 40-50 cars, where I was the only stick car on the grounds. How does that support the automatic for consistency train of thought?

Bottom line, in MY opinion.. There is not right or wrong conclusion here. It isn't easier either way. It depends on the driver . If someone is having trouble winning with a stick car and converts to an automatic, they're probably not going to win anything then either. ;-)

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

ar#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
339L Randi Lyn Shipp 5411 Chris Knudsen
E6 -0.018 10.912 93.99 ****WINNER**** 0.009 10.910 105.31
D/SA Dial: 10.64 (+/-): 0.272 C/S Dial: 10.66 (+/-): 0.250
Prior rounds:
E5 (P Devore ) 0.017 10.650 0.030 (B Speer ) 0.004 10.670 0.040
E4 (D Whalen ) 0.035 10.582 0.012 (J Lopez ) 0.034 10.534 0.014
E3 (L Deforrest ) 0.016 10.610 0.020 (G Emmons ) 0.005 10.585 -0.005
E2 (L Henderson ) 0.036 10.627 0.047 (J Tolston ) 0.004 10.556 0.006
E1 (J Emmons ) 0.033 10.784 0.224 (G Picek ) 0.000 10.558 0.038
Qualified: #6 10.609 -0.941 #25 10.583 -0.767

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

A stick car did win Indy stock eliminator in 2000. I was there. LOL

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Da champ!

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

I LOVE it !!!! :D

These highly competitive threads are really good entertainment ! :)

ALMOST makes me wonder why most all racers don't run a stick. LOL

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Running either one is better than just running your mouth.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

It’s called a man handle for a reason

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

I guess my question is not clear. Basically looking at same combo is the 4 speed faster than .15 over the auto? Liberty vs Metric 200 both well prepped. Not asking which is more manly or even more consistent. Maybe which brand of 4 speed manufacture is preferred too?

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

And there's the bottom line at the end of the day...

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

They are not nearly as bad now as they were 10-15 or more years ago. Good axles shocks and driveshaft. Clutches are way soft compared to what had been run in years past.

I see plenty of auto guys on their backs under their cars so I think maintenance is just part of racing

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Rich,

For your combo you would probably use a Jerico or Gforce transmission with a Mcleod Soft Lok single or dual disk clutch. I get my clutches done by Advanced Clutches. Not any faster if the Converter and trans gears were correct in auto, IMO.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Hi Rich,

I think this question is tough because I can't think of many guys who have switched from auto to stick. The examples I can think of aren't totally relevant (LS1s and SS/AH Hemis). Randy Mans's LS1 went from fast to rocket ship after the switch - maybe Mike Mans can chime in with what they learned.

For whatever it's worth - I think your combo would be awesome with a clutch pedal!

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Sounds a little sexist. Teach her to drive a stick.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

i have comparison that may help...
my car was F/pure stock.305/160-230 (IHRA rating)350 TH 2.75 low gear set,low volume pump..
changed over T-10 2.88.1.75,1.33.... best with auto was 8.28 1/8 third pass with stick went 8.02 eventually went 7.68/12.30 without any changes to engine..
later converted to K/S ran 11.85 with T-10 broke it a few months later switched to jerico and went 11.66 first pass....
was converter perfect.NO but i had done all I was going to do with it...adjusted all it could be..... when i switched over was clutch perfect NO...and never was,but best I could do... 7.68/12.30 on 8.90/13.75 index was best I could do...

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Some people may not be physically able to race a stick. I had a friend who could street drive a stick, but there was no way he could race one.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Ls auto to a stick goes from 382 hp to 357 or 25 hp less. 8.5 class x 25 hp less is 213 lbs. Maybe 2 tenths fast with a stick. If you look a well known stock racer just put stick in his mustang Tom.

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

I have run my SS/D 69 Camaro both ways and it is a solid .20 quicker with the stick!
Auto is ATI TH400 with ATI converter. Stick is GF5R Gforce with Mcleod softlock clutch.
Perhaps a ProTrans would narrow the gap but the stick would be quicker and waaay more fun!

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

Stick has the potential advantage of launching at a much higher rpm than an automatic.

Here's one of my ClutchTamer customer's sealed engine Coyote Stock graphs from several years ago, it clearly shows stored inertia energy contributing quite a bit to the car's initial acceleration rate. Energy that was stored prior to the start of the clock, then un-leashed after the start of the clock to boost acceleration. Notice that all the highest points of the Accel "G" trace on the graph occur while the engine's rotating assy is losing rpm (discharging energy) against WOT. But then as soon as the clutch stops pulling the engine down and engine rpm begins to climb, the G trace drops like a rock as engine torque alone is now accelerating the car with no help from discharged inertia...

https://grannys.tripod.com/clutchtam...ityQ3graph.png

Just something you might not notice if you are currently "driving into the clutch" like a lot of class racers do.

Grant

Re: Stick vs Auto
 

My SS/I 327 camaro lost .35 going from a jerico to a powerglide. This is up here in Denver. It needs a 3 speed but the stick will still be much faster.
Years ago with a bracket motor in the car went 11.20 with a glide. First time ever with a stick in the car went 10.66 first time out.