**Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Posted Today on NHRA.com




10/19/2007

After reviewing nearly 500 responses from Stock-category racers regarding the usage of two-steps in Stock Eliminator, the NHRA Technical Department has rendered a final decision.

The voting results were nearly divided down the middle with 49 percent of the racers voting for two-steps to be removed from Stock eliminator while 51 percent voted for the continued use of two-steps.

Of the 51percent voting in favor of the continued use of two-steps, 61 percent voted for the application to be pedal-activated only.

?Along with their votes, most racers also included some very good opinions and suggestions,?, said Len Imbrogno, NHRA Director of Sportsman Racing and Member Tracks. "The added racer input was very beneficial to the tech department in making a decision, considering the voting was practically split down the middle."

Effective for the 2008 season, two-steps will continue to be allowed in Stock eliminator but must be either clutch- or break pedal-mounted and/or -activated. No remote button locations will be allowed.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

ridiculous.............

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

It sure is ridiculous to allow any electronics in stock!!!!!!!!

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

works for me ..

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

I heard the E-shift will stay too and all cars will be able to use them in 2008.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

What is the going price for the machine work on a set of legal heads? $1,000.00? Any engine Builders want to answer.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

not to offend but why would you want them to be slow (i mean legal) ?

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

LOL...Buttons are gone, yet the bitching continues! SHUT UP! GO RACE! GET BETTER!

It dont matter what kind of button it is, on the pedal, behind that pedal, around the pedal, when you let go of the brake your car moves! You people are IDIOTS! The majority wants to keep 2-steps, Thats the way a vote works!

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

I have a name...Stockracer...Im just another cheater in Ed's world that we call drag racing!

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

i have to agree with ed.in the 52 years i have been racing,none of my cars have had one.may want to try it now and i sure need to know. biggg

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Should make it interesting hearing them go on the chip at 1300 feet......:rolleyes:
That's legal, right?:rolleyes:

I'd say adjustable pressure switches on the rear brake line will become popular, search your NAPA buyer's guide or Grainger's catalog........

There should be a pressure setting that will allow the switch to activate on the starting line, yet not activate with a light pedal pressure to drag a few hundredths off down at the big end.


Pass the popcorn, this is gonna get good........:cool:

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

yes!

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

If the majority voted this way then that is the way it will be. Have a great weekend to all in Silver Dollar and Rockingham! I need to find two tenths.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

well,,its a start in the rite direction,,,,,,here is my preditiction for 2008,,,,,you will still see the same winners but the packages wont look like something in super comp or super gas,,,,,Ive examined the results and the RTs in some cases were as good as racers using delays and transbrakes........this means that slower indexed cars may not have to be driven by gods to go rounds anymore and whether most on this board know it or not,,,,it is very important to preserve the ability of slow cars to win. Next year will be a "tell tale" into the future if only a certain class of cars is all that is competitive in stock,,,,,,,with all the EFi and carb cars combined,,,,there are going to be alot of heads up runs.......my point is,,,since I dont have a large knowledge of "go fast" and NOT going to spend 60k in a competitive A ,B or C car, tha someone built,,,I can race something with a slower index and have a better shot of going rounds and not spending a life savings to do so

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Tim, I've noticed a few posts about this topic, about how slow cars are uncompetitive. I'm just curious how you arrived at this opinion. There have been several "slow" Stock racers that have proved to be very competitive. Didn't you nearly win a world championship in a slow car? Myself, Ed Fernandez, Michael Beard (before LED's, no less) and several others have done very well, in slow, pure-footbrake Stockers in the recent past. I did very well in a seventeen second HF/SA, with both LED and regular bulbs. Ed F has back to back Top 10 Div finishes, in two seperate sanctioning bodies. Steve Pohill has driven his stick Escort (that didn't sound good) to two finals the past several seasons. I really don't think we're quite dead yet :~)

B.D.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Mike,,,slow cars are at a very big disadvantage to start with,,,you race one,,,you understand that there are big obsticles to overcome,,,,not that it cant be done, but doing it is tough.........when you consider all it takes to go rounds in a slow car,,,,,and top it off with a guy in the other lane sitting on a .010 lite nearly every round because of the style of racing the buttons and 2 steps have evolved most racers into,,,,makes for a grimm outlook for winning.....like I said,,,not that it cant be done,,,,,yes,,I got close,,,and if it wasnt for about 4 or 5 crybabys in Div 9,,,would have won it (another story),,,but alot of if was sheer luck,,,and didnt go hardly any rounds in the 1/4 mile,,,,,The run packages it took in 2002 wasnt nearly what it takes now....I was winning races with no better than .04 total package runs,,,,now??? I dont believe a .04 total run packge would get you past a couple of rounds,,,,,if any at all........time will tell I guess

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

This **** is getting stupid>>>

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Maybe i could jack off with my foot that seems natural?????????????

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

If we cant allow any electronics then the 67-69 Camaro never came with electronic ignition. Oh well that has nothing to do with a 2 step or does it. I can only race a handful of races each year anyway but I agree with the earlier post the same winners will be winning.


Herb jr

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

so clutch cars leave off the clutch with a 2 step, auto's leave off the button for years, now the autos have to change and the sticks stay the same, who benefits????

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Yea herb no wheelie bars or slicks either.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

lol...yes, I am very aware how tough a FWD/slow car can be to win with. Actually, cutting a light was never a problem with me, even dead shallow with old older stype bulbs. I was pretty killer most of the time on the tree. The twenty inch rollout sure helped with that. The biggest thing I had was keeping the car on the number when the wind and weather changed by the hour. But, you're right. The level of competition has increased quite a lot over just the past several seasons. I remember when Stock racers could average an .060 light through seven rounds, and win an event. Unless a racer was really lucky, I doubt that could be done nowadays.

I've never raced with a two-step, so I can't comment on the advantage/disadvantages of them from personal experience. I wouldn't mind trying it, to see what the hype is about. You still doing any Class Racing?

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

sold the stocker and sit out for a year so my son could race,,,If I traveled,,,he couldnt race his dragster,,,,too darn fast to turn him loose by hiself,,,,he was still in school and couldnt travel,,,,,he graduated and got a good job so we are back at it next year,,,so looking for a couple of cars,,,,probably run hotrod and stock next year,,,sure do mis traveling,,,it was fun !!!!

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Where exactly on NHRA.COM is this posted at cause i cant seem to find it anywhere???

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

look in the lucas oil division section---comp 387

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Rumor has it that some of the stick shift racers have their two step hooked to the line lock button . The other rumor is ( again,..no names ) they are not about to change a thing for next year.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

A majority??? I wouldnt exactly called a slam dunk! the buttons are still here,no spec,they will just change a bit,and for the elec shifters..cant we drive cars anymore? stupid move if it happens!!

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Mikey, I'll give you some thoughts you can relate to since I used your former car for a year then stepped into a car with a two-step recently. Just like the Sunbird I can put the pedal to the metal, no stab & steer. The chip is set for 2,600 rpm. I dont need to worry about it creeping forward on me either.

BTW, I like the rule change because if they didn't make it I would have stopped using the two-step mounted on the dash because I ain't coordinated enough to make my finger and foot go at the same time. Now there is one less motion I have to worry about while going down track

Now as far as the two-steps being activated down-track when everyone starts scrubbing the brakes, maybe they could mandate some sort of switch that automatically disarms the two-step after you launch?
I'm gonna see if I can install something like that anyway because then I can run the car in Pro ET without having to uninstall everything.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Just dont step on the button.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Once your past the chip limit you can step on the brake and nothing will happen. As in 3500 chip, and your at 7000 in high gear it won't activate the 3500 side! At least not according to my MSD tester! John Lang

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

Damn, I was really starting to like my button.

Oh well, too bad my car has a pressure activated switch already!!!!!

I liked the button so much i hadn't tried it yet. Now there is a brake pressure gauge going in this winter for sure!

It's really not that complicated the whole 2-step piece guys. There is a relay on my shifter, once it goes out of first gear the 2-step cannot be activated. It's a lot easier on your bottom end too......

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

John,,,it will activate ,,you just dont hear it,,,car will eventually slow to the 3500 stutter,,,,,only bad thing about doing that?? if the chip is on for any length of time,,,it will load the cyliders/headers/mufflers and could cause serious engine damage,,,,,,back in the thottle stop days,,,I blew the mufflers in half on a racecar doing the same thing


stockers (with any brains) arent doing this,,,if anything,,,they are hitting the high side....possibly with a switch to deactivate it if needed,,,,,here is the theory,,,,(1/8 mile racing tested),,,,,the ET of a car is directly related to the RPM...meaning that, if a car is running quicker,,it will make more rpm and exactly the opposite,,,the less ET,,,the less rpm,,,,,SO,,if your car is turning 5500 at 630ft,,,,and the next time is turning 5550 at 630ft,,your car is running quicker,,,,,,,,,Im using a 5500 chip as an example,,,,,,,if a car hits a 5500 chip at 630ft and the next run hits it at 625ft,,,,the cars is on a quicker pass BUT hits the chip to slow it down and put if back on pace,,,,,the same works for it being slow,,,,if it hits the 5500 at 640ft,,,it was on a slow pace BUT the car has run wide open longer to again put if back on track for the desired ET,,,,,,,,,,,,now letting a car hit a chip this close is undetectable to officials and if the driver didnt know it,,,he wouldnt even notice it,, with the exception of it would seem to just quit pulling,,,,,,contrary to belief,,,it wouldnt run up and just stutter like mad,,,,it just slighly bouces against the llimiter,,,,now if you held it on down for another 2 or 300ft,,,it would stutter like mad,,,,,,,,,,

IF THIS IS GOING ON,, this is how its done,,,,a switch connected to the high side 2 step to turn it on after the shifts,,,or car is being short shifted and run thru on the chip

the same issue could be used with timing retards,,,its just not as effective as using a 2 step

AGAIN,,,, ,I WANT TO STRESS,,,""IF"" THIS IS GOING ON,,,,,if I were an official,,,I would be looking for RPM chips that wasnt accurate (reasonable),,,,3 steps,,, or wiring to the 2/3 steps where they connect to the MSD,,, I would be looking into the programs of EFI cars to examine what type of timing they are using on top end,,,,and also looking for timing retards in carb cars

the problem,,if one wants to cheat,,,,officials just cant stop it,,,,,an LED tach can be used to same way WITHOUT any of the above mentioned items and it will work,,,,

if alot of you racers will examine runs,,,you will see that alot of the runs dont add up,,,,alot of racers are getting info inside the car to make calls on the track,,,,whether this is legal??? dont know,,,,,,,,Is it illegal for me to watch my LED tach till it rolls up to 6100 and let off???,,,the big analog tach arent very reliable,,,but the new LED readout tachs are,,,,,,,,is that illegal???? should it be??? Just like stated above about hitting chips,,,,should that be legal???? what if you didnt want to blow motor and it hit a 6400 chip every pass???

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

I wouldn't worry about the stick guys that keep the 2step hooked into the line lock switch, because in a stick car, if you let off the button, the car still doesn't move. And if you hold on to the button and let go of the pedal, the car is leaving whether you like it or not. Believe me, I have forgotten to let go of the button on a run or two while testing.

Moving the two-steps to the pedal is a start, but I would like to see Stock be a Footbrake class, and Super Stock be a No-E class.

Not like any of this bothers me too much anymore. We are going to an auto for the next year or so. Cant afford all of the parts breakage the clutch is causing, and cant afford to call Youngblood yet.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

:) Most of you who are complaining are IHRA racers anyway. So why are you worried about NHRA rules? I prefer to leave the rule as is. I don't think changing the rule will stop the people who are winning now because they are professional racers. Professional are usually good at what they do. Suck up your tears and lets race. :)

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

since Im one of the most vocal,,,Im assuming your speaking to me,,,,so I will answer,,,,,,,1st,,even though I have complained about it,,or "cryed" as you put it,,,,I neclected to send a vote or an opinion to anyone in NHRA,,,,my only goal is to correctly inform other racers who read these post just how and what advantages there is to using one and where its leading,,,,(in my opinion) ,,,,as a personal opinion, I would welcome ANY and ALL electronics to stockers,,,,not just to the select few who have choosen to get around the rules ,,,but to everyone and anyone that races,,,,,but what I dont like is a cross of the rules,,,,again,IMO,,either do away with it all or run anything that is available,,,even down to track counters

now to the Ihra question,,,,,nearly 99.99 percent of the time,,,what Nhra does,,,Ihra follows as far as rules are concerned in the electronic area

all this stuff needs to be brought out of the closet so all racers and more importantly the tech guys understand how things work and are being used,,,,sorry if it upsets a few

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

I hate to put it like this, but a large majority of NHRA racers are just like this. They are in their own little world and their sh!t dont stink

If you haven't noticed, this discussion is about the future of Stock Eliminator... which is also contested in IHRA, and IHRA follows NHRA's lead most of the time.

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

I wouldn't spend $2100 on a clutch either if it's in the budget to replace broken transmissions, driveshafts and rearends. You'll especially enjoy the cost of a competitive metric 200 trans and a convertor (or two) :confused:


Sorry I'm off topic. I'll go away now...:rolleyes:

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

I believe you should have done your homework before you made that comment, my friend.

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no biggie Mark,,,racers dont like me giving away secrets,,,,But I am suprised clutch man wouldnt be in favor of doing way with buttons/2steps for automatics,,,,that way he could go back to winning consistently in stock

clutch,,your rite,,,I have had no success at nationals ,,, absolutley none,,,,was completely out of my elements,,,but that still doesnt change the facts of what Im posting,,,you know it and so do I,,,,,,racers somehow are getting info as they are moving down the track,,,,,,whether its legal??? whether its a guess??? who knows.....

Re: **Final decision on two-step usage**
 

For a man that has never raced, I have watched Tim kick tail on a weekly basis. Even in a Super Pro final footfeedin...

If my history is correct... Tim is a past NHRA Sportsman National Champ, and finished second in IHRA Stock Points a few years back, and has won his fair share of bracket races. I would say Tim is one of the smartest racers out there.