spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I am starting to work on my super stocker engine and just noticed the pistons ( top name) I purchased have the ring type rather then the spiral lock sets ,, I am accustom to the spiral locks that I know work and will not come out ,, can I get some feed back on what the most of you use ,, I have contacted the piston manufacture of my concerns ,,
thanks in advance gmonde

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Single or double spiral locks have been the std. for many years.

There is NO way I am going to use something different. I'm Not going to use a round ring type lock no matter what the piston manufacturer says.

I've never had a spiral lock come out and I've built a lot of engines...

The old snap ring type occasionally would break a piece off but never came out either....

I'd send them back and either redone for std spiral locks or replaced....

After seeing the destroyed engine on here on another thread and the replacement pistons with spiral locks....there's your answer...

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

yeah I agree,, I will see how much push back I get ,, if I get to much it will be posted here

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Round wire clips work well , and are OEM on most production engines currently . Be aware that the wrist pins used on pistons with round wire clips are chamfered specifically for these clips .

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Rich, since I was mentioned I would like to at least explain that my replacement pistons have spirolox not because I don't trust a round wire lock but because I don't trust the piston manufacturer.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Todd I don't know the exact reason for your engine failure but I would not change what has worked successfully for many years.

I have no idea why a piston company would change to something different.....

I've used spiral locks as I said for many years and the pins don't have a lot of movement side to side between the locks. Never had one come out....

I always make sure the pin is free to move back and forth between the locks after assembly and use a heavier type assembly oil on the pins and pistons....

Round wire locks might work fine but you won't find them in my engine. Now that I know these are out there I would make sure any pistons I buy have Spiral lock grooves and locks.....or I'm not buying them...

My dragster engine is a 565 and has Diamond pistons with spiral locks....I built it......It's 6 years old and has hundreds of runs on it.....and has been apart for inspection and some fresh parts.

I built engines for myself and many others for years and years......

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Rich, I agree with everything you've said. Why the piston manufacturers have gone to a round wire lock I can't comment on, I just don't know. What I do know is a round wire lock will not work if the piston manufacturer doesn't machine the groove properly. Not sure if the same applies to a spirolox groove or that type of lock is more forgiving to machining discrepancies.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Unfortunately in this day and age manufacturers have to have something new to help them sell and be different enough to be the latest "new & improved"
.
Sometimes change is good if it's made for the right reasons.
Sometimes change is bad if it's made for the wrong reasons.

I have been racing with my partners for 50 years and always on a tight budget. No money makes it difficult to recover from adversity.

We raced what we built. The dollars spent had to produce.

Why would I risk our racing money on a trick of the week.

I know that I will take some heat for this post, but that's OK because I've handled heat my whole life...

As I remember back there was a very well known Junior Stocker guy that had written on his car "Trix are for kids" and it's still true today.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

Here is a joke that might fit for this...

Consider the new round wire pin locks "the green alternative "

In my experience if it says its "green" It just doesn't work worth a you know what....

Plenty of modern things are better and may take some getting used to.

Plenty are not and you regret getting sucked into the marketing...

I would assume a round wire lock would work fine in a properly machined groove with a pin finished the way it would need to be to work with that lock....and all proved by testing...

But exactly what is the reason to make a change from what has worked for decades.....

You have to ask yourself why did they make this change.....There is NO advantage or improvement since what they changed was not failing....

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I have engines with both dual spiral locks ,and the round wire rings.
Mahle has the round wire clips in their specialty performance line.
Since the wire ring engine has not been pressed into service yet ,I cant personally attest to their durability.
That being said , my finger tips were in much better shape after assembling the engine with the wire clips !!
Back in the 80's the machine shop that did my work was building some mighty successful Dirt Modified engines with the wire clips , I cant remember them having any failures. . ...Plus they had some Cosworth engines there which also had them.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I have been running round pin rings (CP) for over 2 years now (200 runs) in my 5.7 drag pak up to 8400 rpm and never had a problem with ring clips, pins or piston.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I have not seen a Cosworth piston that did not have round wire rings in them and they started business in 1959. The last V8 Ford Formula One engine they did ran at 19500 rpm without any failures that I can remember. Even flathead Fords had round wire locks.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I was in the engine machining and building world for many years and not once can I recall seeing round wire pin locks....from any of the major piston manufacturers.

Round snap ring type was common.....double per side and then spiral locks were the most common.

Yes they tear up your fingers and usually end up with some blood involved.

They made a tool for them but I developed a pretty easy method of getting them in and out.....no blood....usually...

I would guess the round wire lock does not pound out the groove like a flat lock does making it harder to disassemble pistons after some use...

I also assume the round wire lock groove is cut to fit the lock and if done wrong bad things happen...…

I usually Learn something new everyday...but I'm sticking with spiral locks.....LOL

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

thanks guys for responses ,, I did get some helpful information from the piston manufacture as well that puts my mind at ease
gmonde

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

The more I thought about it I do recall some old engines had round wire locks....maybe some foreign stuff......can't recall anymore exactly....its been to long....

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I still prefer spiral locks also. But there were a few somewhat major piston manufacturers many years ago that utilized round wire locks. One you might have heard of....Cosworth. We used lots of them in the 80's on Buick R&D at the shop I worked at. Cosworth seemed to have it figured out, even the "on center bore" V6 Buicks still had rod offset issues and I can't recall a single Cosworth piston pin issue.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

I'm not sure Rich, but I think that you might be referring to the doubled up Tru-Arc snap rings.

Bob

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

We used double Tru-Arcs a lot. Sharp side facing away from each other..to the outsides.
Again, no failures.
Also used single spiral locks too.

Re: spiral or ring type piston pin retainers
 

No Bob.....What Mark said was spot on about Tru Arcs....exactly what we used and how we installed them..

I was thinking of some old engines and oddball stuff that we occasionally worked on....Round wire locks...

In my long working career I once worked in a pretty famous restoration shop here in NJ.....They did all old cars and specialized in Packards and other high end old cars....I worked on some real interesting cars for a while.....I worked in the mechanical end.....engines, drivelines,brakes, you name it.

Was to slow a pace for me and the pay was poor.....Rich guys spending a fortune and we got paid coolie wages....LOL

Like they say today.....He gone....that was me....