If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

What would you say to an advocate who agreed to help with the important issues that are confronting the Sportsman racer? No, this isn't about any type of legal complaints.

An important Sponsor to NHRA at both the National (event sponsor) and Divisional level has agreed to listen to what we have to say and to make a determination as to whether our issues are important enough for them to approach NHRA. The staff of this company expressed surprise and a real concern for the health of Sportsman Racing. I know we are a fractious bunch from time to time but it would be very important for folks to offer their sincere thoughts about the current state of Sportsman racing (from all Categories) at NHRA. Thanks in advance for any and all responsible responses.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Good post Bruce. I would like to see Lucas Oil express their opinions to NHRA. They support the racers and have for many years and their voice should be heard as they sponsor NHRA.

I also heard that NHRA hired someone to overlook sportsman racing and that he was walking around at Pomona. I believe the young man's name is Charley or Charles Meyers and was with NHRA in past years and just returned this year.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Somebody please enlighten me to these alleged important issues and the implied failing health of NHRA Sportsman Racing.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I would not jump to conclusions. There are several companies who fit the description above. And more may become interested as we continue to work on these problems.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

who is "we" and what problems?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

https://twitter.com/nhracharles

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Bruce, we both know that you and I don't always see eye-to-eye but I really appreciate you taking the time to have a look at this.
I am however going to have to take a little bit of time to formulate a "smart" answer to this subject.
Thanks again.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Times 2 , Bruce, All the way

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

There are several threads that are open for debating the pros and cons of NHRA Sportsman Racing. This thread is for racers to offer their thoughts about the current state of NHRA Sportsman Racing. You are welcomed to offer your thoughts about how pleased you are with Sportsman racing. But, again, this is just for comments. I hope people will respond because we may have a chance to win some much needed support.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

This is true, Charles Myers, former Stock racer and great guy. He ran GALOT media relations before moving on to work for NHRA.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I just want to add another element here in addition to $ and eroding skills of these old men who are complaining about the NHRA...those that don't race.

Bruce, these alleged important issues and the implied failing health of NHRA Sportsman Racing that you refuse to elaborate on, how would you know?

The last time you competed at all 5 divisionals was 2013 and you have NOT raced one divisional last year, 2018, not one in 2016 and not one in 2015. 2017 you competed at 1.

So how is it a guy that hasn't supported the Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series in 4 of the last 6 years can alleged to important issues and failing health of NHRA Sportsman Racing?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Charles Meyers ran the Bakersfield Track and has been
in Advertising/Marketing for NHRA for the last
couple of years (As I recall). I believe his new position in head
of Sportsman Relations (Or something like that)

He is a extraordinary talented younger man and loves Sportsman
racing. He WILL BE a asset to the Sportsman community.

He and his father purchase my '80 Aspen O/SA a number of years
ago and he has won class at a National race a couple of years back.
They have been regular competitors on East Coast when time allowed.
He has been thinking about buying our SS/MA '80 Aspen for a while......
But I think he is going to be pretty busy in his new position!

I believe this to be a positive development for Sportsman Racing......He
loves it as much as we do!

Charles: I hope you are not mad at me for posting a little bit about your
background without checking with you first.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Charles is monitoring everything currently being posted
on this site and others.

If you wish to communicate directly with him......PM me and
I will try to facilitate that happening.

I am hoping that his appointment to this position will be a
real benefit to the Sportsman Racing Family and a truely
hopeful sign from NHRA!

My son and I will be in Phoenix and Tucson if anyone wants
to stop by and visit.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

still waiting to hear who is "we" and what problems?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

My biggest concern would be the possibility of running off the important sponsor.

The appointment of a person in charge of Sportsman Relations is good news. The fact that it is somebody like Charles Myers is described is fantastic news.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Allrighty then, first of all, I personally believe that in most of the country NHRA Sportsman Racing is in better health than the pro program. I am very concerned about how the NHRA management appears to be putting all of it's efforts into the "big show" and neglecting the "Grassroots Program" although it appears to me that the "Grassroots Program" is where they get their working capital from.
I worry about how fragile the function of the "big show" actually is. With the small number of actual team owners that exists today, it wouldn't be impossible (not probable but not impossible) for the "big show" to lose 1/3 of it's teams. If the "big show" catastrophically folds, what happens to us?

With that off of my chest, let me get a little bit more realistic;

The costs of admission, membership, permanent numbers, crew entry (remember when a Natl. Event entry came with 2 crew passes?) etc. have steadily gone up with or beyond the rate of inflation. The NHRA "Cash" Purse hasn't risen in over 25 years. Why is that? How could Wally Parks pay out the cash purses that he could with less incoming cash? Where is the money going? To the pro show?

The NHRA Contingency Program is a shadow of it's former self and IMHO, a joke. Why is that? Does it no longer concern or benefit the powers-that-be? Did the price of entry into the program from the Manufacturers standpoint get too high? Is there no-one in charge of this program who cares about the Sportsmen?

Stock and SS Eliminators are "Performance Based" eliminators. Over the years, the powers-that-be have seen fit to "retire" (eliminate?) the knowledgeable Tech Inspectors and Tech people who are supposed to be at the Races to "police" the entries. Excepting the U.S. Nationals, there is no more "tear down", there is very little in the way of class eliminations and with the ridiculously low entry quotas, class eliminations don't mean what it used to. Who sets National Records anymore? Why is that?

The AHFS system is in dire need of fixing. What is there is way too easy to manipulate and is being over seen by people who don't understand the concept. Superseded/replacement parts has declined into hearsay.
Knowledgeable people are needed back in positions of responsibility.

I truly hope that the "Baby Gators" is a look at things to come. Class Eliminations at Divisional Races would be a pretty nice thing AND a pretty nice show!

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Good Luck with this idea of input from the sportsman classes. NHRA sent a rep to a meeting at Columbus Nationals Years ago to hear our suggestions, complaints etc. He was very understanding. He met with NHRA after this meeting and was fired .Anyone remember this ?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true.


Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true.


or maybe it's that in this millennium with social media, manufactures have realized they can reach far more racers and hobbyists than the NHRA contingency program could ever do and they don't have to pay the NHRA or racers. You think Mark Williams bowing out years ago effected their bottomline? I'm sure it did, for the BETTER. They nor any other former contingency sponsor has closed their doors.


is it really? From my eyes, it's a dial in bracket race 99% of the pairs.


the only ones that care about teardown are those wanting to set records that no one cares about any more. Who gets excited in the year 2019 about some obsure combo running 15 seconds or god forbid slower No one! 1970 is long gone and never coming back. The LS6 Chevelle's 13.2 second performance, tuned by GM and driven by a professional back in the day, impresses no one today least of which young men 17-30, not when you can buy a brand new, street legal, off the showroom floor 9 second car and if that's too rich for your blood, 10 to 12 second showroom stock cars are plentiful. Cars that do everything better than those big old muscle cars ever did.

Again, the world changed, our country changed so why is it shocking to some that drag racing has changed. Drag racing nor our country is going back to what it was 10 years ago no mind 50 years ago and that should be obvious to all by now. Stop complaining about the money, who has it, who gets it, who spends it and focus on the fact that we are all fortunate to be able to do this. Motorsports is on life support. Enjoy what time it and you have left and stop complaining.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Ed, I will no longer respond to you.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

You just did.;) Why is that Billy, lets have a mature discussion supported by FACTS, not opinions, assumptions, lies and personal attacks.

BTW, I didn't see your name "Liked" here...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=72244

Or you telling my son here

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=71987

that you are "very happy for his success in S/C and wishing him continued success"

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

You're lucky someone of Billy's stature converses with you at all.
Who in the hell do you think you are, besides a bracket racer from The Patch?

Take a hike...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHpFFHNRwS4

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Mark, just an FYI, I don't ever recall speaking to Billy in person, Further, I don't believe we were ever formally introduced. Lastly, I only know of Billy from about 25 years ago when I first started racing at ID.

Now who I am is an NHRA Sportsman Racer and 1/2 of the TEAM that won the 2018 NHRA Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series Super Comp Championship. Who this season with be campaigning two(2) cars in the LODRS.

I'm not leaving nor will I be silenced here by anyone other than Ken.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

WELL HERE GOES ANOTHER THREAD......................

DOWN THE TOILET!!!!!



Is it impossible to have a CIVIL and respectful
discussion anymore on this site?

Well it is time to take my 70+ years of degenerating
skills and load up my low $$ no talent Racecars
for Phoenix and Tucson Races

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

good luck

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

1320 Racer:

Your comments and OPINIONS are no longer needed here. What you have to share will in no way help this conversation. You have never raced stock or super stock, so your OPINION is not warranted for that arena.

As someone who has been around this sport my entire life, I can answer to the question that was addressed in this thread.

I truly feel that the majority of stock and super stock racers want the recognition and rule support for the performance part of the classes. It takes a lot of time and knowledge to get a car to run well. To not uphold the rules or at least check engines really can take the joy out of building a legitimate fast car. If everyone else is fast, but are cheating to do it, what does it mean anymore.

I think with class being dropped, that shows that NHRA does not want to invest in the man power to police their rules and does not really "care" about performance catagories in sportsman racing. It is a headache to them.

It takes money to make money- they are saving all they can.

As far as the super classes and T/S and T/D. They "seem" to be doing well.

Change is an inevitable. Some things may come to an end, new things come to be.

I dont know if the purse is the drive for many racers. I feel, it is about the level of competition, quality of the venue and its systems and knowing you have accomplished something next to and around some of the best in the business.

Contingencies -WIn on Sunday- buy on Monday. I dont think the manufacturers are seeing it that way any more.

Thanks,

Hope some of this helps.

Ryan

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Wagonboy, my opinion is no less valid than yours. The comments, alleged problems and implied health concerns in a few threads over the last couple of days was about NHRA Sportsman racing, NOT Stock/Super Stock.

of course it is and of course they don't know, one cares in the year 2019 except a few old guys still living in the 70s.

That said, like with the NHRA, you don't make the rules here either that is Ken's call and I'll continue to post my opinion here as long as he allows me to.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

1320 / Ed
I'll take a shot at answering some of your questions..... (based on my experience, although I believe if someone wanted to take the time to do it, finding verifiable data wouldn't be that difficult)
The cost of racing....
National Event Entries are about double what they were in the 90's when I started racing. And they definitely included one crew/restricted area pass.
The Nationals were a blast to race at back then. There were two days of qualifying and time trials..... (some races would have class eliminations) and the race eliminations started on Saturday morning. Compare that to now..... Entry twice as much, only one day of time trials/class etc with race eliminations starting no later than Friday morning. So in my view a good part of the fun factor is gone. The quotas are a drag, a real point of contention in my opinion. Back in the day there were often 90+ Sockers and 80+ Super Stockers at most Nationals in the heavily populated divisions. I can't say for sure but I strongly believe there were a lot more Super Class .90 cars as well, way more than the current quota system allows. Anyway - Somehow, even with the 2 days of qualifying and elims they still got these races done. They just don't seem like a good value in the current state.... I believe the others see this similarly but I can't speak for anyone in particular. I get it, and I accept that things have changed. So I attend these races when I feel like doing so and I don't when I don't.
Divisionals on the other hand, haven't really changed as much. The entries have gone up only moderately ($120 in the '90's / $170-$180 nowadays) which is understandable. The purses haven't changed much either, they may be modestly higher. I still see the divisional races as a good overall value (if that makes sense). No quotas or pre-entry factor a plus too.

Stock & Super Stock are traditionally performances based classes. They are mainly a dial in race as you state but..... Stock Eliminator, due mainly to the fact that it has remained organized in a traditional way (i.e. fewer classes), has a lot of heads up runs. It's there, you just may not have noticed. Super Stock (which has a lot more classes because of GT, FGT etc.), has a much lower frequency of heads up runs.

The advent of the AHFS put a damper of sorts on chasing performance. Class elims in the old days were like mini wars and there were a lot of rivalries which made it fun. Because (except for Indy) that's all crammed into one day - it's just not the same.

I'd love to see the old days come back because it was a lot of fun, but realistically that's not going to happen. I don't complain about that stuff myself, and I try to make the best of it because that's all I have time to do. We all have to adjust in our own way. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for people on here like Bruce and Billy, who not only are traditionalists but also have the will to advocate for the rest of us. You make an excellent point about enjoying what we have, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And when these guys race, I have observed them to do exactly that. But In order to at least preserve what's there there needs to be folks willing to assert themselves.... and we are lucky to have them.

I hope that helps put things in perspective. I didn't intend to be so long winded. We truly are all in this together.
Best of luck to you this season
Ang

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Angelo, thanks for taking a shot, offering some history and your perspective.

You are correct, we truly are all in this together and that's why I'm here commenting.

Thank you and good luck to you as well this season.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Before anyone holds out hope that NHRA has hired someone who will devote time to talking to/ listening to sportsman racers and will have some clout to do something with that info, two simple words to consider: Len Imbrogno

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

amen

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

John. With your dangerously degenerated skill set are you sure that is safe?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

lets go back to good old days
NO s/g,s/c,s/street,t/s, t/d, all have to run a class a/gas ??????
pro stock at div.
run class first then, elim. ( class winners only)
all run off national records
yet good old days

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Hey 1320racer

It is unfortunate that you never experienced what drag racing was in the 'old days' before you were even born. Those were good days, and us old guys loved it. The sport and NHRA have changed, we continue to race even though NHRA no longer appreciates us except for the money we bring. You apparently enjoy your category and the way thing are, so why would you criticize anyone wanting to improve things? If some of us who want change can get together and maybe effect it, why criticize? I just don't get it. BTW-FYI-This section is for Stock, Super Stock discussions.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

A most outstanding, well-spoken, professional and classy response, (especially for a NewYorker: Disclosure, that's an entirely friendly jab there from a guy who grew up just outside Newark/Jersey City, NJ, so I think I can get away with that...) I remember watching you race in the 90's,but have never met you in person. I hope to be able to do so some day, and have a few glasses of wine together. Thank you for bringing this death spiral of a post back to level flight.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

The best-laid plans of mice and men can be ........ disrupted by a person so confident in his ignorance that he makes something so simple seem convoluted and ugly.

My intent for this thread was to ask for responsible feedback from the racers but clearly that cannot happen when one person is intent on blowing it up.

I have not raced for two years because I got into something wet in VA. and crashed my car. The year before that my racing was cut short because of work and health issues. I should have my new car out by the end of this year. But have never surrendered my membership or competition number. I think most people who visit this site might remember some of this story. Obviously one guy was pulling lint out of his navel at that time and missed it.

I personally think the biggest problem that the Sportsman racer is confronted with is the obvious effort by nhra to remove us from racing at National events. 20 years ago we could compete at the Gators with 600 cars on the grounds. And somehow the race was a success, barring bad weather. Now because the Pros need so much room and the TV schedule limitations they have scaled the race back by over 200 cars. Yet, nhra still has time for a cackle-fest and other forms of entertainment when we should be on the track racing.

It's easy to write a suck-up post to Lucas Oil and tell them what a fine job they are doing for us because it is obvious and true. Lucas Oil has saved our behinds out of the kindness of the Lucas family. They are the best. But we also have to be honest with them and say that nhra is taking their money while kicking the Sportsman racers off the grounds through the use of these draconian quotas. Lucas deserves better. It's investment is diminished when Sportsman racers figure out that it will take 7 or 8 grade points to get in a national event and there is no way they can attend that many divisional races in a year. And for many Sportsman Racers, getting grade points to attend national events is a prime motivating factor for attending Division races.

There is more but my old phone is about done. So I'll continue at a later date.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I'll repeat again, this is a lot about nothing but the ramblings of a few old men, living in the past that think stock eliminator is special and want these events to revolve around them that also think if the rules are reversed to a time gone by decades ago that they and their old cars will find the winner's circle like they may have long ago. You collectively have been crying about most every rule change in this class for decades, more recently...aftermarket brakes, aftermarket seats, aftermarket heads, wheelie bars, 2 steps, class designation, HP factors and the list goes on and on and I didn't even talk about those cheating with ported heads and manifolds that I have seen done in person with my own 2 eyes! You don't work harder nor are you more deserving than any other class racer!

NHRA Sportsman Racing isn't perfect but nothing is. I also do not see the "obvious effort by nhra to remove us from racing at National events " What I do see when I look around the pits at every event is men and women that are excited to compete, hope to win and want to be there. Again...


THANK YOU


and to the few old men here living in the past, not one of you btw, "Liked" the above, stop complaining and enjoy what it is or quit!

BTW, if you think I'm alone in my opinion you are mistaken again. I have a lot of friends in NHRA Sportsman Racing running in most every class including stock eliminator and everyone that I have spoken to agree with my comments.

Ken, thank you for this forum where all can voice our opinion on every topic regardless of who disagrees.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Ed,I believe you know who I am and I think you pretty much have hit the nail on the head. I have been doing this 55 years and it has always been crying about factors and rules,costs quotas etc. I love running stock and Super Stock but I accept the rules I'm given and do the best I can. Do I always agree,No would I like to see changes YES but others may not see it my way. We just have to make it the best we can without trashing each other. See you at the races.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Lee, I'm not sure I do but I appreciate your honest reply. Good to hear you are still loving racing and make the best of it. See you soon and good luck this season.

With that said, I'm out of here for a while, no Ken hasn't banned me yet.:p I've got two cars to get race ready in 8 weeks for testing. Got a very busy May and June, starting with my son graduating college on May 5th.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Ed congrats on your son graduating college thats a big deal in his life.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

This issue isn't as much about the rules - it's about an organization that is pushing out the Sportsman racers of all categories from National events. None is so blind as he who refuses to see.