Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect everyone)
 

Here is a picture I received, is Scotty Richardson the real winner of the U.S. Nationals?
http://www.classracer.com/indy.jpg

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

>> E6 0.026 7.932 162.59 ****WINNER**** 0.047 8.357 153.47

>> Jason Coan's MOV: 0.0047 seconds (approximately 13 inches).


Scotty appears to be ahead (comparing not only wheels but also front ends) already, and with Scotty carrying over 10 mph on him, you'd think it'd be impossible for Coan to get there, let alone by a wheel.

Either that or Indy's finish line is seriously crooked!

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

Tough to tell from a picture taken of a TeeVee screen, but it does look wrong.......:confused:

You don't suppose he dumped him having a moment do ya?
Maybe the Richardsons have a new trans supplier for '08? :p

Finish line at Indy screwy?? Say it ain't so!!!!! :D
Ask anyone who gets screwed there at the weekly bracket events.:rolleyes:

It does look like the Barone car nose is lower at the beam height than the Coan ride......

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

Beard, the finish line isn't crooked or anything like that. I've seen this happen over and over in super stock and people get screwed.... that is; the wheel of one car (Richardson/ Barone) trips the finish line beam and the nose or the "fin" (in this case) of the other car (Coans) does trip the finish line beam. Is Richardson's wheel in front of Coan's wheel?- Definitely! Is Richardsons "fin" in front of Coans "fin"? Yes! But Richardsons fin didn't trip the beam and Coans did. Could be the angle of the fin, his track placement etc etc. End of Story. It Happens all the time in Super Stock with the noses of the late model cars but now that it happened on the big stage in comp, it's coming to a forefront. Have you ever seen a guy in class run a crazy high mph and wins by a few thousandths? Same concept. It should have been done long ago.

NHRA/ Imbrogno/ Foster or whomever needs to lower the finish line beams to 1 to 2 inches (In the sportsman categories) so that the front wheels of everyones car trips the beams and this will fix the problem of a late model car tripping the beams with his nose and the other older car tripping the wheel with the wheels. Or in this case a fin of one car tripping the beam and the other cars fin not tripping the beam. In the PRO categories they can leave the beams the way they are so that the cars don't jump over the low "sportsman" beam. They could have this programmed in the computer.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

Here's a shot somebody posted on DRR...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1267/...e4a2e7.jpg?v=0

Not even looking at Scotty's 'fin', the sloped nose of the car has to trip the beam. Above and beyond that, even Coan's nose isn't 13" in front of Scotty's front tire, even if there wasn't body work in front of it!

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

this opens a can of worms. steve johnson all over again? what will be the answer, mike, you sure look right to me.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

I know what you are saying Beard. Scotty's nose/ front end should have tripped the beam but that's my point. It doesn't always work that way, that's why you see mph fluctuation sometimes of 3 to 5mph (sometimes the front ends take it and sometimes they do not). It happens all the time, thats why they need to lower the beams. It would make it a tire to tire race and take all the guesswork out. No more wondering.

Bottom line, Scotty and Barone got screwed (but so have alot of other people in the same situation) This is a totally different deal than the Pro Stock Bike.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ?
 

I lost a race this past weekend where I was on the brakes and ran over 1.5 mph faster than my best run over 3 days. No doubt in my mind the lights were tripped by my nose on that run and it looks clear that Scotty should have "dumped" to get the win at Indy. I had not seen those pictures before.......Racers obvioulsy have to know their own cars and what and where they trip the lights with.......I thought about it on my car but never addressed the problem and now it bit me..........

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Video frames are misleading - the top of the frame was scanned 1/60th of a second before the bottom of the screen frame (30 frames per second, two interlaced scans per frame), so the car in the nearer lane always appears to be ahead of its actual position because it was scanned later. In other words, you need a snapshot, not a vertically scanned video image, in order to get a true picture, or you need a video system that scans a lot quicker than 30 frames per second. The MOV in this example (.0047) is much smaller than the video frame uncertainty (.0167). And, given the angle of the finish stripe in the frame, the camera was not perpendicular to the track, further distorting the image.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Did anyone out there Tivo the finals?

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Looks like the only thing that was distorted was the win light in the wrong lane. Looks like the steve johnson pro stock bike final the other year.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

I have it on TIvo and you can only move it so slow, it is the same as in the photo shown..

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Guys,

Remember, we are really racing 1317.5 feet ( or so, depending on which body style you have) with beams 7 to 8 inches high at the stripe.

The tire starts the clock and the body/facia stops the clock.


??What was the reason for raising the beams at the stripe and when did if officially change?

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

.
This is a good example in my opinion why NHRA should catch up with the rest of the racing world and go with electronic transmitters on each car i.e., NASCAR, F-1, Indy car SCCA and even Go Karts. These little transmitters are relatively cheap, about the size of a pack of cigarettes and project down onto a scoring wire laid in the track. Their accuracy is excellent as seen by the July 4 th. race at Daytona and you could do away with all those ancient photo-reflectors used now. It would also eliminate all the finish line issues with paper blowing across the track, dipping games played by cars with low front spoilers etc. Its a shame someone looses because of 1960?s technology.

Jim Parsons

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

>> with beams 7 to 8 inches high at the stripe.

I believe at least the IHRA spec for the finish line beam (and all incrementals, except for the 60') is 5-5/8". I would assume NHRA is the same, or very close.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

I'd say that more than likely Mr Richardson was ahead in this photo but wasn't at the stripe. In the 5th round his speed was 166, so I'd say in the interest of saving index he pedaled to tighten it up and gave it back. And maybe because of the bobbing front end the front of that street roadster missed the beam and tripped with the front wheels and Jasons nose was ahead at the stripe. Just a theory but his speed is off 4 mph, why? And who's to say his 166 in the semi was wide open. Tough way to lose the U.S. Nationals for sure. I gave the stripe back plenty of times in my dragster days and my speed was alot higher than my opponents because of how late before you caught them.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

I spoke to Scotty at Etown. He said before any of this came up that he stayed in it past the finish line to the scoreboards for the win and thought he had it at the stripe. Vinny confirmed the datalogger showed it on the chip past the finish line. The return road celebration confirmed he had lost after he missed the win lights on the guard rail.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Here's the two different screen captures I've seen, in succession:

http://www.staginglight.com/images/comp_indy07.jpg

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

The change came with the Compulink "Startrac" system upgrade to infrareds, I can't remember the exact reasoning, other than I believe it was to compensate for the change from incandescent photocell receivers placed at 1 1/2" above the surface, also the 60' timer was moved to 61' 4", I think to compensate for the higher downtrack sensors, and keep the "standards" in line in regards to record attempts. It also helped alleviate the problems of anyone having a movable stripe catcher or other bodywork tricks.

Seems this all happened about 2000 or so.....We need Jeff Foster in here to answer this one.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Thanks Dave.

Thats good info. I would like to know more about that 60' clock spec?

Hello Jeff Foster.......................More info please.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

ok guys... let me know if this is true ???

in a breakout category using front end not tires to break beams is factored into dail in...
if you dont dip your slow... dial it that way and dip and you breakout...correct ???

HOWEVER comp is different... you dont lose if you go to fast, just slap on wrist ??

jack mccarthy

p.s. from beard's pics i think it is obvious... barone's car got screwed.

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

Not my pics, just stuff I've found other people post.

Now, from this pics on dragracecentral.com...

http://www.dragracecentral.com/stori...richardson.jpg

The only thing I can figure that could've happened is that the front spoiler went under the beam, and the fender flares went above the beam, so the first thing to trip would be the tire. Even that looks *really* close, but I don't know that it's enough reasonable doubt to overturn the timing system. They've got the finish line beam set at the leading edge of the painted stripe (right side in the pic).

Re: Richardson Barone, winner of the U.S. Nationals ? (Redirected. May affect every
 

The reason that Scotty's MPH was down is because the front bumper did NOT catch the second (1/4 mi) box infared/beam but did catch it at the first cone, that is some distance that was not counted for when the computer made its calculation. I asked Scotty and he said I swore I got there, thats why I stayed in it, otherwise I would have lifted. Not for nothing but if the Pictures look like Scotty got there, and Scotty (the most successful sportsman driver EVER) says he believes he got there first then I believe they got screwed, they are not the first and will not be the last!