1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I just saw this on a Stock/Superstock Group on Facebook.

This car is listed in the NHRA Guide 231 at 245/295 as a natural G/SA car.
Has anybody tried running this?

Seems like it would be a pretty quick car with a 12.00 index.

You wouldn't even have to start with a Grand National, clone a Regal?


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Will Lamprecht
Div 1 this year. New car 65 Impala H or I/SA

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Vic Guilmino used to race one.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

So did Fred Vetter.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I am probaly drinking too much of the "Street Outlaws" Kool Aid! turbos and stuff!

Will

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I think that with 21st century electronics in it, it could be a hitter.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I seem to recall that while John Gallina was racing his SS/Modified V6 Buick, his wife raced a Stocker Grand National.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Rory, Pretty sure she raced a non intercooled 4 bbl turbo Regal. N/SA ?

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I think she had a turbo Firebird.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

'89 I/SA Firebird. Turbo car. Ran D or E/FIA when they had those classes. Was always stupid fast. I think it went 11.2's in I/SA way back in the early 2000's. Was never a threat in eliminations because she had to wait an hour for the turbo to spool up.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Yes..Forgot about that combo..That was after the Regal ,I believe.
Fred Vetter had one too. GN drivetrain in a 'Bird. Those things were a handful.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^- at every Buick club race I attended over 25 years of GS ownership and drag racing, NO NA 455 guy ever worried about facing any of the turbos in eliminations. The lag/spool thing, no matter how fast they were, made them a lame cripple at the line. I am certain modern electronics would help, hard to say how much.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Mark is correct on 1984 Buick N/SA.
I bought the car and raced it a few times.
Sold it to a Arizona buyer and have not seen it for a while.

If you lifted and got back on it near the finish......It would not
boost up until you were at the time slip booth.

To stage it you would have to keep spooling it right thru leaving water box
to get boost up. You would have to press the brake petal like King
Kong.......I knew when to stage it....My socks were WET ( I will not tell
you why )!

It was great for setting Records......Not much good in Eliminations!

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I stand corrected, I just remember that the Gallinas had both cars at Mission years ago, when his turbo V6 became the first S/Stocker to record a 7 second ET.
As for the Turbo Buicks being slow to spool up, in the early-mid 90s, we had a group of about 10 Grand Nationals that always raced and pitted together at Mission, they called their group "The Black Plague". They would start loading the engine against the brakes before the first stage light, and often spent a minute or so slowly creeping in to light the bottom bulb, at WOT. I could only imagine how hot their ATF got during that! I have not seen any of them since NHRA implemented the 7 second staging program.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I had a buddy that raced a GN in Super Pro. When Autostart came around they used to kill him at the tree. Everybody learned to go in first and he couldn't get it on boost in time to leave.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

When those Turbo Regals were running, were 2 steps allowed in Stock ?

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

considering the current crop of stand alone fuel systems (computers), getting one to build boost and cut a light would not be an issue. The hp factor is a bit high now, needs a few off. However considering turbo technology and NHRA's ability to tech a turbo beyond inlet housing size and general appearance, it may not matter.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

This was long before I started running a two step!

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Chad I think you nailed it right on the head there. Both with the newer stand alone fuel systems and with NHRA's ability to check and enforce the car. It would probably still be a pretty good combo.

Rick

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Marka Gallina's car was a non intercooled (we call them "hot air cars") 84-85 TType Regal (I think that the one I'm talking about was white), which was fuel injected. At one time, in a crunch, their crew chief bought the service replacement turbocharger off of my 84 TType to use in order to make a race when they hurt a turbocharger.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I still have mine (84 TType, low VIN, low mileage, titled to the original owner), it's sitting in pieces in a barn.

Even nearly 20 years ago, we solved the staging/turbo boost problem. You have to have the correct converter, with the ability to "free stall", while creating load to build boost, and with good torque multiplication to launch the car.

An ATI 8" Treemaster MRT, that Jim Beattie built for me, Charlie Plott sold it to me, was the first one to work right. When we put it in the car, the customer was pissed off, because "it takes a year to build boost". Well, he had put it in the car the day before the race, and never tuned it.

The Monday after the race, he went home, and started tuning. When he trashed the "usual tune" of the day, which had no timing advance to speak of ("you can't put timing in it while you're trying to stage and build boost, it will detonate, and blow the pistons and head gaskets out", or so everyone said) and dumped raw fuel in it ("you gotta throw fuel at it, it needs fuel to make boost and power, it will lean out and melt any higher than 7:1 A/F-R") and started actually tuning it, he found that with decent advance, and an A/F-R of around 11-12:1, it would build boost so quick and easy that it was hard to hold in the lights. Without killer brakes, and a stout left leg, it was nearly impossible. He had to go back and get much better tires, put better brakes on the car, and get real deep in the suspension. After tuning, he was literally pre staging, then getting on the converter, and as he bumped into the stage beam, it would go from 2 psi to 16 psi, blow the rear tires off and roll the beam before the tree came on.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Unless their is something additional in the tech manual that isn't published, the specs listed in the blueprints are housing size, number of compressor impeller blades, and compressor inducer diameter. I think stock appearing externally goes without saying, but that leaves A LOT of grey area in that turbo, probably 100hp worth

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

When I was running a turbo Buick NHRA made me remove the turbo an disassemble it.
They had all the internal specs. This was in teardown at a national event.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

but how long ago was that? and why wouldn't they publish that information.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

i am with Bob
nhra did the same to me
they have things that are not in the books
and i try to get them but it was a NO
i had no trouble with boost
15# on the line and 30 in the traps
stock tubro

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Perhaps after Ingersoll turned the Pro Stock ranks on their ear?

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Both the non intercooled and intercooled combos were horsepowered by non stock turbos. Nhra had no idea what to look for and thought a stage 3 turbo was stock. Apparently Dave Shultz before he died had schooled NHRA on turbos. After that they had all the turbo cars in the barns. The Gallina's were the only ones that ran a motec engine management system that was incredible. Now there are really good systems out that would help the "drivability". Plus dual calipers. That engine would have to make 450hp to be fast and at 30 pounds of boost it could be done once or twice.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Freddie Vetter's GN was bad fast, our car and his qualified in the top sixteen at the Keystones one year and we both went to the barn, except he didn't want to take his car apart because he didn't know how to put it back together, so he took the DQ and went home, probably to play golf. He was a great guy, but not too good with tools. He used to keep his golf clubs in his truck just in case.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Frank what year was that
i think he had the front mount intercooler on the car

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

1986? Probably 1987 now that I recall.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

What is this "lifting" you refer to? These cars are meant to be run out the back door! As far as Buddy Ingersol ,he is a Buick Legend that really made pro stock look bad.

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Didn't Kenny Duttweiler also run one in stock?

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

yes kenny did

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

before the Buicks Buddy has a bad AA/MC turbo 2.0L Pinto. NHRA used to stay up at night trying to figure out how to slow it down.

Roland

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Kenny built and tuned both the Gallina's Buicks. Len Snider and
Billy Chapin (Who raced another GN built by Kenny in SS) also were
helping on the Buicks.

They also helped me when I owned the Stocker........Alas I was Too
Stupid to run that car very effectively!

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

I first met Kenny when he was testing his 1985 Turbo V-6 Stocker at LA Co. Raceway in '86 or '87 I believe. Super nice guy.

I remember his car being EFI without an intercooler.

I was pitted next to him with my '79 Turbo Regal. He gave me some cool Buick Turbo V-6 stuff :)

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuZQEVAkV9U

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

Good run turbo vs nitrous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: 1987 Grand National Stocker?
 

That video does more to reinforce how great Bob Glidden really was!