Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
We all know by now that what ever NHRA says is law. Makes no difference whether the call is correct or incorrect. Seems they would rather take it to the grave than admit they were wrong.
This first became obvious to me in the early to mid 1960's when Bill (Farmer) Dismuke bounced everyone that went through teardown with a Chevrolet '097' green strip solid lifter cam (270 & 283HP). Seems somewhere between GM & NHRA the wrong specs. got published. Even though a cam was gotten over the parts counter and run "out-of-the-tube", it was bounced. Dismuke, after a while at least, knew these guys weren't cheating. but wanted to make a point, ruling with blinders on. A lot of innocent racers (if there is such a thing) got hurt by the call that he knew was wrong. The latest Turbo-Action Cheetah E-Shift for stockers ad in the Dragster shows that this exact same mentality still exists at the NHRA. NHRA drew their line in the sand on this issue saying that all cars with fuel injection can use the E-Shift controller to automaticly shift and cars that came with carburetors, can not. Makes no difference if the cars original computers controlled the shifts or not. The example used in the Turbo-Action ad is 1985 Camaro 305 fuel injection can use the E-Shift controller and 1985 Camaro carburetor can not. Neither car came from the factory with electronic shift. Why would the fuel injection car be allowed an electronic shift and not the carbureted car? What happened to a level playing field? Another example of how narrow minded NHRA can be. |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Bobby, you are right. When I ran the trucks, we used a 904, but it would have been ok to have the e-shift. I think there are tech meetings @ Indy. Now might be the time to send an email to tech, Len, or someone so that item might be addressed. I assume all the EFI GM cars already have this inasmuch as this was the original design. Does sorta seem to be a funny item.
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
The E-Shift controller is an outside controller, which in my opinion does not have a place in Stock. If those computer-controlled cars can program their factory computer to handle the shifts, -=shrug=-, fine. Otherwise, pull the shifter yourself. It's more fun, anyhoo. If you want your automatic transmission to shift automatically, hands-free, then don't put a manual valve body in it. ;-)
They're fine for other classes where air/electric shifters are permitted. Sounds like a great product, like all of Turbo Action's stuff. This one's just not for Stock, in my opinion. Just my $.02, |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Bobby--I think your comparison is flawed-the NHRA of today is nowhere near as tough as the "Farmer" . He once tossed me out of a race for being less than 2 lbs. light on a valve spring.I certainly don't think he (Bill Dismuke)was a bad guy -it just was a different time and rules were not as flexable. As for the E-Shift--I don't think there is a performance advantage-but they do make a driver more consistant. Turbo Action has a great product that should be allowed in "ALL" stock classes not just the FI classes ---its just another case where racers need to write or E-mail their Division Director (and Tech Director) and voice their opinions so we can end up with a level field again.
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I don't have a dog in this fight other than having a TurboAction tranny in the car, but I would think that the E-Shift would be allowed in ALL combos because it could be considered a safety device! Maybe it should be brought up to NHRA in this aspect? Jim
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Michael,
I'm not saying I don't agree with you with your stand on these deals in stock. I'm saying that if allowed for some, it should be allowed for all. Jack, You don't think there is a performance advantage, it just makes a driver more consistant. I understand what you are saying, but that in itself is a performance advantage. Jim, That's what the Turbo Action ad stressed. The car with the shift controller "is safer to drive in the air on a 9" tire" than the one without the controller. |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I am with you Jim and Jack. Michael, how do you think the late Model Cars Transmission's were shifted from the factory? Yea i know, don't go there, we could put the Factory Computers back in and run just as fast. I guess everyone has his opinion, i don't think we should be allowed 2 steps and adjustable buttons either!
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Jeff is correct. It is currently being looked at. Lets hear from stock racers on this one.
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
>> The car with the shift controller "is safer to drive in the air on a 9" tire" than the one without the controller.
Okay, someone's going to have to explain that one to me. >> Michael, how do you think the late Model Cars Transmission's were shifted from the factory? Yea i know, don't go there, we could put the Factory Computers back in and run just as fast. You have aftermarket computers to handle engine management. If those aftermarket computers handle the shifting, too, fine. I see absolutely no reason why E-Shifts need to be in Stockers, *particularly* in cars that did not come with computer-controlled transmissions. >> I guess everyone has his opinion, i don't think we should be allowed 2 steps and adjustable buttons either! I agree. When Stock becomes a "let go of the button and hang on" class, I won't lose interest, because I will still be footbraking and shifting myself. I enjoy *driving*. $.02, |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Len since you asked, here it is my opinion and mine only.
Yea, it is a safety device. One can always pull the safety card. I don't believe it is needed for safety anymore than the new F bodys needed 4 wheel discs. I recall seeing a post on here that was a real tear jerker. Probably made NHRAs lawyers change the disc brake rule right there. It was something about a racers daughter needing those disc brakes to keep her safe because of the disc/drum setup not being adequate. Of course, if safety was the only concern, the stock 4 wheel disc setup would have been just fine. Now I say that and I too have 4 wheel disc brakes on my 66 nova. I put them on since they were lighter and that makes me quicker. Don't paint everything in safety just to push the desired performance piece through. I bet the wusso/autoo shift is more about consistancy than safety if we really want to talk about it. I am waiting for someone to ask for remote control next. :) Leaving for Indy. Good luck to all. Jim. |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
the transmissions in the injected cars are not eletric-shift units you cannot take apples and oranges and make bananna pudding. just my 2-cents
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
As for the safety factor, if you are scared to pull the shifter with the front end hung up.... then you shouldn't be driving a car that hangs the front tires that high.
Stock is supposed to be STOCK! I'm falling in with Beard here. If you want the car to shift itself, get rid of the manual valve body, or use the factory computer to do your deed. If you guys all get to have the e-shift, then I want all the stick cars to be able to have clutchless transmissions. Fair enough right! Just another "enhancement" for our future. |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Who with a stick uses a clutch to shift by.
Mylin tell me what shifts the late model cars? |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Quote:
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
>> As for the safety factor, if you are scared to pull the shifter with the front end hung up
If you're steering with any number of hands with the wheels in the air, umm... you're not doing anything. Pro Stockers drive with one hand. Where does an automatic shifter enter in as a safety device? While we're talking safety, how about fire jackets mandatory for all drivers running 11.49-quicker? |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Michael, what is wrong with the Jacket Rule?
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I feel that everyone required to wear a helmet should also be required to wear a jacket-that's everyone, right?
As far as the transmissions and e-shifts, no one has mentioned that most of the cars that are now allowed to use the e-shift were not even available with a Turbo 200! Should they have to run a 700R4? Did they have a computer controlled transmission? I've got two stockers that (I think) were available from the factory with a Turbo 200. Why can't I let it shift automatically, whether it's electronically controlled or not? I'd probably make the 2-3 shift manually, anyway, so it's really no different than a Turbo 350 with the auto 1-2 that I'm currently running. How do you get in touch with Len? E-Mail? |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Quote:
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I was wondering the same thing about the handshift guys:confused:. My ears been listening to drag cars for many years and the stickshift cars I hear today don't always sound like what was normal years ago.....Maybe my ears are shot :(
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
This situation could be cured without changing the rule. Just add to the rule that if a electronic transmission is used it must be a production electronic transmission. No adding electronic shift solenoids to non electronic transmissions. Nobody ever produced a production electronic shift 3 speed automatic. So NO 200,904,C-4. Unless you want to shift manually.
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
adjustable buttons...electric or air shifters....AHFS games...how fun are we having anymore...really? everyone is looking for a way to get the car/driver more concistant...(wich is bracketracing to me) rather than try to go faster(because of the current factoringsystem awards that in a fine way)..that stock and superstock became sort of a bracketrace back in the days was needed because the diversity of cars and classes became alot better ofcourse,but when you hear some people in this class want to get rid off heads up runs,change the redlight rule,keep asking for driving-aids...i just dont know anymore...dosen't sound like the same type of racing and group of people that i used to know and love....
sorry..again...this post was about why some could have e-shift and others not....i support the idea that it follows :can only be used in transmission that had them from factory!maybe we will se those newer trans on older cars... |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
>> Why hasn't anyone answered Woodro's question about stick cars?
Norton probably is, but he runs a Pure Stocker. Nobody's answered the question about why the E-Shift is a "safety device". Woodro -- has NHRA changed the jacket rule, or do they still have 9-10-11 sec. Stockers with guys wearing t-shirts? While it didn't become an issue, my Volare has been on fire, and while I always wear my fire jacket, it's made me re-think some stuff. I've since moved where I have the fire extinguisher mounted so I can get to it quicker/easier in an emergency. Back on topic -- Louis brings up something I was going to ask last night. Are these late model computer cars running aftermarket transmissions, or are they running "performance built" versions of the stock transmission? i.e., Could the computer shift the transmissions that are being used in these cars, or would people have to manually shift them if it wasn't for the E-Shift? |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Michael, 11.49 or M/S must wear a Jacket. As for the Computer shifting the Tranny, the Holley system has a function for shifting the tranny just like the OEM computer. You know some of you guys have pissed and moaned ever since i brought out the very First LT1 Fuel Injected car, get over it, it's here to stay and as for the OEM tranny NHRA didn't want us using it because it had overdrive and Lock up Convertor. If that ever comes about i am sure they would be quicker yet. Now you guys voted to get the Fuel Injection cars away from the Carb cars so why do you care how we shift? Hey guys this is the 21'st century, times change.
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I'm 100% behind Woodro on this. If you think a fuel injected car is more consistent than a carb car, you are mistaken. I've ruined entire seasons from a consistency stand point by making one seemingly minor wrong call in the ECU. An EFI car has to be set up about perfect to be as good as a carb stocker.
Clint Blezien 37 A/FIA |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I wish everyone had the opportunity to drive an upper class stick car and find out what they have been missing. Buttons, automatic shifters and 2-steps on the automatic cars take away from the fun that makes Stock "Stock Eliminator"
I understand that it makes the car more consistent and competitive. But they are getting to where all that is left is to add a throttle stop and it's a super class equivalent car. I know that my car isn't the majorities choice to try to win with but I like a challenge. And stick cars do sound differently then they did years ago! Transmissions have come along way and shift much better than OEM equipment. It only takes light footwork to make a smooth gear change. And yes they CAN be shifted clutch-less but it?s a no-no and hard on parts. Hell, I could probably rip the tachometer off the dash and still hit it within reason?. p.s. ? Part of the fun of driving a stocker is shifting with the front wheels in the air ;) Regards, |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Quote:
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
>>Michael, 11.49 or M/S must wear a Jacket.
Good to hear. Sorry - been a number of years since I ran NHRA. >> As for the Computer shifting the Tranny, the Holley system has a function for shifting the tranny just like the OEM computer. That's cool. >> you guys voted to get the Fuel Injection cars away from the Carb cars Personally, I think they should run together. If the cars are factored correctly, then it should be a non-issue. Thanks for the answers! |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
I have to disagree on the inconsistentcy of an EFI car. We are still running the factory ECM and the car is pretty deadly.
Woodro - I am one who does shift with the clutch, well, because I still run the factory transmission, with all the factory internals. The rulebook does state that it has to be clutch-assisted. The overdrive deal is something that I am confused about though. Am I allowed to use it or not? I would like to put a bit more gear in the car and use overdrive, mainly because we are trying to run high 12's with a 200hp combination. |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
When i built the Car back in 94, i was told no Overdrive or lock-up convertor, now if they have changed their(NHRA) minds, i am not aware of it!
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
But how can they tell me no overdrive if I am running the factory transmission?
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
2007 Rulebook
Transmission, Automatic "Any model transmission (must be same make as car) having the same number of forward speeds (O.D. gear not required) and reverse permitted. Transmission case must be OEM from a standard automotive application as found in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. NHRA-accepted adapter plates permitted. Modifications to shifting pattern permitted, provided full shift pattern is retained. Full shift pattern must include park and reverse. Any gear change must occur as a result of an internal function of the transmission or from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, etc. shifters prohibited. Lockup converter permitted if OEM-equipped with lockup converter and OEM transmission is used. Otherwise lockup converters prohibited. Electronic shifting of automatic transmission permitted in computer-controlled electronic-fuel-injected vehicles. Otherwise, automatically shifted transmissions prohibited. Deepened stock or aftermarket transmission oil pans permitted. Drilling of transmission case or rear of engine block to adapt incompatible units prohibited. Functional neutral safety switch mandatory. Transmission brake prohibited. Tailshaft modifications for bushing replacement, or NHRA-accepted aftermarket tailshaft, permitted. See General Regulations 2:12, 2:14. Transmission, Manual OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket transmission having same number of forward speeds (O.D. gear not required) as original, and reverse, may be used. All gear changes must result from direct action of the driver. Pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, etc. shifters prohibited. Floor-shift conversion kits permitted. Clutchless transmissions prohibited. Clutch must be used to change gears in a conventional manner See General Regulations 2:12. Automatic Transmission It seems that any automatic transmission can shift automatically as long as it is not controlled externally. Otherwise the driver shifts the transmission. Only EFI cars can shift electronically. If the car was originally equipped with a lock-up converter and the originally equipped transmission is used, lock-up converters can be used. Manual Transmission With manual transmission OD need not be used. Does not say that OD cannot be used. Hope this helps! Frank |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Lock up converters????????????? thats a complete new thread.
love those 4 speeds John |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Agreed, If you gave some guys a lockup converter it would be scary...
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
If the automatic shift in the fuel injected cars would be such an advantage don't you think more drivers would have that? (Biondo, Fletcher, Zane, etc., etc.)
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
The overdrive deal is something that I am confused about though. Am I allowed to use it or not? I would like to put a bit more gear in the car and use overdrive, mainly because we are trying to run high 12's with a 200hp combination.[/QUOTE]
I doubt that you would be very happy using the factory overdriven 5th gear in a Stocker. When I was still running original style T5`s in my M/S 85 Mustang, I did try using 5th on one run, rather than letting the engine hang its tonque out in 4th. The OD on my T5 was 0.68, I believe, and the RPM dropped like a rock, and the car dropped off a bunch. I doubt that you could run enough rear gear to make the OD feasable, especially with such a low power engine. Even if you could, the 1-2 shift would crazy. Also, every OD stick trans I`m aware of has very weak looking gears, as OD is normally a "cruising" gear, without much load being used. As for Mr. Hendersons comments about the fun aspect of a faster stick car, he is dead on. Although it`s not a Stocker, I have a Ford Fairmont bracket car with a 428FE and Jerico 4 speed, that runs 10.0`s at 132, with 1.29 60 foots, hard not to smile banging gears while wheels up ! |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
The auto shift works very well and there are those using it happily. The down side is if you spin the trans will shift and the run could be wasted.
As far as the lockup converter in the modern trans: Can the internals take the abuse. Does anyone modify these transmissions? What would be the cost of developing it? Who wants to be the first?? |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Quote:
We have had the cover off the trans just to see if we had hurt it, and surprisingly after just under 200 runs it looked decent with just a little wear on the synchros. |
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Page 44 of October 12,2007 issue of National Dragster has a Turbo Action Advertisement that says ACCEPTED IN ANY YEAR STOCKER?
|
Re: Turbo-Action E-Shift Controller
Look at their web-site. Says it's accepted in all stockers any year... in big bold letters.
I think I'm pissed now... |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:43 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.