IHRA and Memphis
 

Most of you - at least in this neck of the woods - knew about the IHRA two-race event scheduled at Memphis International Raceway this past weekend. I’ve been to this track a number of times since returning to drag racing as a Stock Eliminator participant in 2009. My initial impression with the quality of the facility combined with the professional manner in which the races are run have kept me coming back. This past weekend was no exception; however, turnout was absolutely embarrassing for both IHRA and the track operators. We racers awarded their efforts and hard work with a total entry count of 54. I believe Stock may have had the highest number of participants in its category at 17.


The staff handled the disappointing outcome very well, called a driver’s meeting early Saturday to share their disappointment with turnout, but thanked the few of us for being there. Given what they had to work with, they made the smart decision to run both events through to completion on Saturday and allow the local bracket program to merge in during the second race for their scheduled Saturday evening event.


After looking for answers and gathering viewpoints among the few class racers there to visit with, nobody could come up with a reasonable explanation and all were very disappointed. A few observations:

• It was hot (always is in Memphis during August) with little chance for rain in the forecast and we got none.
• MIR is an outstanding facility that based on my experiences, is run as well as any anywhere.
• We all want and need facilities like this not only to survive, but thrive in order to provide the track operators a living and us a venue where we can do what so many of us love to do.
• Unless I overlooked it, there were no other schedule-conflicting events anywhere in the region. What am I missing?

I comment here infrequently, but I check the forum often and read through most of the threads where meaningful and constructive information is being shared which is why I’m offering up this topic for discussion. In my mind it’s just simply perplexing ... I can’t figure it out and hope to get some feedback.


By the way, I think we were all impressed with the HUGE Saturday night bracket racer support this race track has cultivated – a heck of a turnout loaded with quality race cars. I have no idea if a track of this magnitude can make it on a bracket program alone, but I’m sure IHRA is wondering what to do with Memphis.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Bill,
Many,many racers I've talked to think IHRA has disappointed them again. Many feel that doing away with the Divisions gave them less to shoot for. (Many racers work for a diviisonal championship). I know they now have the National Championship but really how many IHRA racers will tow that much to chase that. Many will chase divisional points, even for the smaller amount of money awarded to them for the divisional championship. Last year Stock racer Jeff Gardiner won division. He said he had been trying to win it for years. That accomplishment was huge for him.
I also think that IHRA's lack of letting racers know of long term plans hurts them. Where are the real Naitonal Events???
Really when you go to a divisional, (NHRA or IHRA) the lack of spectators takes away from the excitement.
I think IHRA's format of 2 races on one weeked is great. Last year we chased points all over division 3 and enjoyed it. This year we will be at the season ending race at Dragway 42, that's it!!!
Stock and Super Stock racers have many excuses for not going, some good-many not good. Mike Beard can tell you about the disappointment of S/SS racers not supporting a good paying event that had much fun built into it.
That said, Our family has always liked the IHRA way. Lately we've not been feelin it because of some of the reasons above.
Jeff Ross
Ross Family Racing

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

My guess would be they picked a bad weekend to schedule the race. The same weekend was Brainerd. Bowling Green is this weekend and Indy is the following week. Not many can take that much time off of work and do that much traveling. Most all of the racers run both sanctioning bodies. That's the hot bed of racing in that part of the country for NHRA. IHRA needs to figure out how to schedule their races so they are not on top of the NHRA schedule.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Notice that these national events were barren. Tried to go to as many as possible but did not have the pop or excitement and the fans just did not show up.

Did not see and active marketing. If you were not an IHRA member you did not know these races existed. Didn't help that NHRA and NMRA are pulling racers from all parts of the planet.

I liked that Divisional and National Races were separated. Remember the seasonal National Races Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall Nationals. National Records were set at the Nationals. They were special to go to. Do not see many IHRA tracks west of the Mississippi.

I was the only Stocker racer he did not name and when he did could not even pronounce my name. Comments were few about any of the racers and their cars.

I am a contingency sponsor and was that was never mentioned in any of the races. In fact the only sponsor mentioned was Sunoco.

However walking in the pits and met several racers. Lots of conversation about those planning on building a Pure Stocker.

Kind of like the excitement for driving IHRA has taking a rest.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Ihra and Empire ran a tight show. Quality cars and great racing by the drivers. The two Barracuda stockers were impressive. Pat.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

I always liked making the 600 mile tow to Memphis when it was NHRA. They had a bigger draw for cars when it was NHRA. I agree with the poor scheduling comment above, but for me, no way I am towing that far for IHRA. Just my $.02.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

There was also a double Combo race at Bowling Green this past weekend.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

I love Ihra races. Went to San Antonio this year for the double had a great time. Here's the problem. Too many "I'm to good for IHRA" nhra racers out there. It's nhra or nothing. Whatever......

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

I don't have any specific answer but Stock and SS car counts have always been a little low but solid. They have always had very respectable .90 class counts to make up the difference in my opinion but I have noticed the last several races a steady decline in those as well. The alarm really sounded for me with the Maryland race which is very nice facility and they also had a bad turnout especially in the .90 classes.
Maybe these guys are concentrated on more big moneybracket races, just a thought.
For me it is simple, I like running 1/4 mile races and I don't have the time to run both series so I have opted to spend my time running NHRA. I also like the NHRA nationals so its really just a matter of preference. I had planned to go to Budds Creek, even purchased my membership but had a problem come up and couldn't go. That was several weeks ago and I still haven't received my membership card.
Ed is right there are some out there that will not run IHRA but what has happened to the ones that were? I hope for their sake they figure it out soon because 54 cars will not cut it for long, I see them having a real issue trying to sell a national event program to a track next year right now!

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

I'm unsure of what the answer is either, but I can almost guarantee you the question won't have to be asked for long. IHRA has tried and tried to put a sportsman series out there in multiple configurations and people just refuse to support it with numbers that will make it a sustainable business model.

Excuses are excuses. Scheduling conflicts, 1/8 mile, don't like the points structure, buy backs, the dog ate my membership card, whatever. Yes, they are far from perfect, they do things that annoy me as well, but it is an option, an alternative, its a venue to compete at, but it will not be there with this level of support. And frankly, I think its too late, this was the last crack at putting something out there in hopes of getting a decent car count.

Sure, the old IHRA national events had more excitement, but so did the old NHRA national events. The events in the current IHRA SSNC format, while considered nationals, are obviously more like points meets, but so what. Timothy won Hot Rod Saturday at Empire and got $1500 purse and 9 stickers at $200. It was the same deal at Pittsburgh when each kid won in Stock and Super Stock. $150 to enter, double events, and only 2 days required. How isn't that a good deal.

Again, they are flawed, but so is NHRA. I'm not throwing rocks at anyone, but sometimes we're our own worst enemy. After all the talk, no one supported Beard's race, so not wanting to lose his *** he bailed. IHRA and track operators can't continue to throw good money after bad, and the complete lack of support, for whatever reasons, is going to make NHRA the only game in town other than combos.

Won't be any need for excuses soon...

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Well said Dan...

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I agree with Dan, we were at the Empire race this last week end.Were was everyone?? it was two days of racing , well run, and the track and the IHRA staff were great. We need to support the IHRA.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

How many total cars were at Budds Creek?
I hope to make it to the races at Dragway 42.

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I heartily agree with Dan. There's a lot more at stake than just egos and preferences. Stock and Super Stock cars are a very specialized definition of drag race cars. If you want to sustain and even grow the sport and someone gives you a place to race, go there and race and be thankful. You can be erased from the landscape with merely a pencil.

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Don't know the total numbers, but here is a link for results from each class.


http://dragstory.com/forum/index.php/board,310.0.html

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Looks like around 80 not counting Jr dragster.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Thank you, Dan. In Root Cause Analysis fashion I believe you sized it up quite well. What a sad state of affairs.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

I also agree with Dan The Man, and Ed Carpenter as well. This brings back my memories of the San Antonio Raceways "Summit Sportsman Spectacular"! A disgruntling 10 Stock entries were there, and grossly upsetting "4" Super Stockers made their way to the race. I'm still bummed over that one, partly because I stunk up the joint with my reaction times in the 1st and officially 2nd rounds. Mostly because I am one of the most low-buck stocker racers in the country, yet I traveled 1000 miles to attend the race, and many closer racers didn't. Shocking.....

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

For me, it's very difficult and almost impossible to run for a championship in two different organizations plus support our local combo races. We run approximately 12-14 NHRA races per year that are all less than 7 hours from home. We run another 5-6 combo races per year. Then, if you throw in at least 2 weekends of testing, were gone from home approximately 20 weekends a year. When you factor in our racing season begins in April and runs through October, we only have approximately 28 weekends during that stretch. There's just not much time left! Hope my wife doesn't read this!

Nick

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

As Dan Has stated. Everyone has an excuse, My self included ( I have run full IHRA schedule since 2004) I chose to Try a full NHRA schedule this year. I Love racing with IHRA.

Reasons for dismal car counts:

Too many other races available, If NHRA/IHRA was the only show in town car counts might be larger.

Racers cannot afford to race 2 series and choose NHRA.

Racers Have a big Ego to race anything other than NHRA.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

275 miles north east of Memphis there was a Saturday and Sunday NHRA combo at Bowling Green, Ky....The previous 2 weeks there was a NHRA points meet in Columbus, Ohio and Indianapolis ,Indiana. 42 cars attended the combo..It was hot as temps exceeded 90 degrees....These 42 racers attended the combo knowing that in a matter of days most would be returning to run the points meet...I think its pretty clear cut any way you slice it....

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Many good points have been brought up, but one glaring problem is the average age of current stock and super stock racers, and the low number of young ones getting into class racing. Not sure what it will take to entice more young racers over to our side; hope an answer is found before it is too late.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

IHRA has lost its place in the racing world. Thats mainly why attendance is low. For those who want to class race on the biggest stage and win Prestigious races and Coveted World titles you have the NHRA World Championship . Which also offers moderate purses (subsidized by sticker money)

For those who want to chase a points championship but can only run regionally, you have the Lucas Oil Series. It still offers a sense of prestige to win and also pays moderate purses (again subsidized by sticker money)

For those who want to run locally without large time and money obligations like NHRA tours demand you have local S/SS S/St, S/G, or S/C series, which in most cases pay decent round money and decent - moderately good winners purses for what the entry fee is.

Then you have the current IHRA sportsman system. It unfortunately is not contested on a big stage anymore (like you could argue it did from 2001-2008), It does not offer a regional points option anymore (even when it did it was abit difficult to follow for some). And last it doesnt offer much in sticker money, purse money or a good purse-to-payout ratio.

So back to my point of what do they offer thats any different then the above three options currently dont offer to everyone?

I'm still a big IHRA fan, I think there is a place in the market for them with the right plans in place , but its going to take an ownership and management team that understand the economics of motorsports not just economics to turn this ship around.

Andrew

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Andrew, Your viewpoint is too one-sided. IHRA probably could have done some things a little differently, which may or may not have helped. But it's not easy in this competitive market. NHRA has problems too. But IHRA has had growing pains since the new owners took over. Look at what they HAVE DONE and look at all the concepts that they came up with throughout their history that NHRA copied. -


* Mountain Motor Pro Stock
* Top Sportsman & Top Dragster
* Nitro Harley
* Double-header divisional events which includes lower entry fees and less days off from work.
* Points format was the same as NHRA, so that's not even a valid argument. They have obviously tried other points systems that haven't gotten the desired results.
* Incredible payouts in their Sportsman Spectacular events, bonus Super Rod events and a record sportsman payout this year. But few people came.
* I can't remember the last time IHRA racers complained about a "one lane track".
* There's probably many more.


What comes first, the chicken or the egg. A racing series can only grow if it is supported by the participants and spectators. They have set the "stage" with opportunities to grow, but not enough racers came. IHRA, and others, have gone in the red many times in their attempts to attract racers. The more racers that show up, the more they will be able to pay out, attract more sponsors, etc. Aside from some glitches, the Motor Mania TV and ESPN3 coverage has been great and have gotten a LOT of views online. That's a great way for the "little guy" to provide exposure/impressions for his/her sponsors. If you know what they can do better, offer your ideas. It's easy to find fault. But it's useless criticism if you don't have a better idea. I'm no marketing expert, but I don't know of any more big changes they could have made without going broke.


I don't think that IHRA was trying to compete head-to-head with/against NHRA. Nothing wrong with a "medium" stage. I look at IHRA as a way to compete against racers as good as NHRA has, and many do compete on the IHRA side also (they are the open minded ones), but it's a more affordable level for me. I can't afford to race an NHRA national/divisional schedule and there are a lot more class racers that can't as well. The biggest problem is lack of support for IHRA. I hope I can keep racing with them because it's been a lot of fun and I've met a lot of great people. I wouldn't expect less from the NHRA side, but at least with IHRA I can afford it and the competition isn't any less.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Myron, other then your thoughts on my view point being too one sided, I agree with what your saying in regards to what IHRA has done, what NHRA has taken from them and to an extent what IHRA still has to offer racers.

To expand on my thoughts alittle I feel there are 5 slices (choices ) to the Class racing Pie, 1) NHRA Nat Circuit 2)NHRA Divisional circuit 3) IHRA Circuit 4) Local Class Racing Associations 5)Bracket Racing and or parked/not racing

Somewhere in there IHRA has lost a chunk of their slice to one or more of the other slices and they need to find a way to re-engage them. An example would be a few weeks ago, Grand Bend hosted their IHRA-less Mopar Nationals. They brought in the Can-Am Stock Super Stock series which had roughly 30 cars running in it in two races in two days (Average race attendance I believe is 38 cars for them normally)

Fast forward to Empire this past weekend there were 34-35 cars combined between Stock and Super Stock. Of the 34-35 only 8 were regular Can-Am S/SS racers.

What I take from this is that IHRA lost a percentage of their pie slice to the Local S/SS option because racers felt it was the better choice to make in their racing/scheduling plan. I feel its safe to say 10 years ago many of those racers would have circled the Empire event as a must attend, just like Grand Bend, TMP, US 131, Rockingham and Norwalk would have been. and they would have filled in the calendar with S/SS combo dates.... Now (around here it seems atleast) its the opposite.

"If you know what they can do better, offer your ideas. It's easy to find fault. But it's useless criticism if you don't have a better idea."

Here is my overall better idea, Stop trying to be everything to everyone, put a 3 year plan together and stick with it and find some consistency within the organization starting with the CEO/President.

No one is going to board your ship if they they think its going to be the next Titanic...

Andrew

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Just an observation.
One key past conversation was that IHRA runs a lot of 1/8th mile races.
I have learned to like them but prefer 1/4 mile.

Have are a few ideas to bring in a few more racers.
Some meets make the Sunday race a Double Point event.

Another idea. Saturday 1/8th mile, Sunday 1/4 mile.
Another idea. Have one Triple race weekend
Another idea. Bring back Modified Production
Another idea. Points for setting National Record.
Another idea. 10 extra points for racing in both weekend races

Btw...daughter just announced I will becoming a grandad.
Wow...
D

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Dan,
Did you mean bring back Modified Eliminator? Now that would be cool if people would participate.

Congratulations on your future grandchild. I assume its your first, we have a 3 /12 year old grandson and I highly recommend being a grandparent!

Bill

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Exactly.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Suggested this before.
The new Cars from US and Foreign manufacturers are the cars that people are buying and racing them.
If you want Stock to be populated by a younger generation.
Got to create a path to consider Stock and Super Stock
Which includes migrating them through a Pure Stock Class to allow them to compete.
IHRA limits to 2005 and NHRA ignores them completely.

The car racing market will invent itself around the large sanctioning bodies.
Hence the success of NMCA and other more flexible organizations.
If you want a younger set you have to go after them.
NMCA is packing them in.

NHRA and IHRA to survive in todays market are going to have to invite foreign models to compete.
BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan and so on.

There is such resistance to these cars that it is killing potential growth.
But that IMHO is where the market is growing.

My 1995 Impala SS is more than 20 years old.
But one of the newer cars compared to the old stalwart racers from the 60's.

Factory Stock is popular but for the rest of Stock you got to grab the lower HP cars.

D






D

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Here's a different point of view from someone that's been doing this for a few years now and under the age of 40.

Stock is crazy expensive even with a dime (not so)rocket. Demands all of your spare time just getting to the track. Travel expenses have increased. Entry fees increased. Ihra you need to have 2-3 days off and Nhra 3-4 days off work. I can go on and on. Now how many people under the age of 40 can afford to work 4 days a week, spend $300 plus travel expenses, start a family, buy a house etc.

When ihra had divisions it was something to try and win. 2-3 good weekends and you could win the division but now youre committed to 5 weekends and 2 of those aren't even close for anyone in Ontario Canada/New York. So what's the point for us to travel 8-10 hours to Maryland or Virginia especially once someone wins everything in the south.

Ihra/Empire put on a great weekend but their business model sucks.


On a side note Empire has 1000 to win races every weekend for $50. Sometimes double headers so why even travel.

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

I approached IHRA with the idea for double headers many many years ago, and was told it would never work. Later that year, Ralph Hester at Immokalee had the same idea, and made them try it. They've been boasting that it was their idea ever since.


IHRA has been a death by 1,000 cuts. Some of the decisions may not even register as a big deal, but innumerable decisions throughout the years have added up to where we are now -- decisions by all involved: sanctioning body, racers, sponsors, etc. It was tough even in the best of circumstances. I don't see how it is financially viable to save at this point.

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First and foremost, I love the IHRA format, their racetracks and their personnel. Have supported them for many years. But for reasons I cannot comprehend, IHRA has plain lost competitors. Many to the NHRA. They either need to figure out how to get them back, which is highly unlikely, or grow new participants. I believe there are a fair number of local bracket racers who would compete if entry fees were lower, travel was significantly reduced, and possibly fear of racing against more seasoned competitors was lessened. I think there is a possible solution. Contest the divisional races at many more local tracks, maybe once/month, with track personnel. So IHRA doesn't have to travel a gang to every race, they reduce expenses. The divisionals occur with a high frequency at your local track, so travel is minimized. And since they are in your house the fear of the seasoned traveling racer is reduced. And one more tickler. Run a big money bracket style race in conjunction with these "divisionals." You attract more local racers, plus some that want to travel, plus some racers that chase big money bracket races. And you can have divisional champions and a run for a national champion.

This seems like it could be a win for the IHRA with reduced expenses, a win for the tracks due to increased car counts at IHRA events.

The points structure would need to be re-worked, entry fees and purses will need rework also. But the current structure is not working. Seems like no amount of tweaks will pull in more racers, so something radical needs to be done.

Ron Cannatti

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Mike Beard makes a good point...bleeding from a thousand cuts.
One of the annoying issues with IHRA are the inoperable scales.
Having to use portable unreliable scales.

All the tracks should have professional operating scales.
MIR had operable scales. Keystone that had the portables.
MIR was 25# heavier with same amount of fuel.
At Empire barely made weight despite filling up the fuel tank full.
At MIR would have weighed 120 heavier.

This is one of the things that detracts from otherwise well run races.
I bet NHRA has proper working scales.
Just one small thing that can be corrected..

On a positive note.
Did like the fact Empire improved its rest rooms..very clean.
Guess something happened. Sunday they had portables..

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Another idea...
If NHRA requires four day...IHRA might want to do that too.

Thursday arrive and Tech and night time BBQ.
Maybe a little music entertainment at night.
Some of us are musicians too. Bring the Axes!
Maybe have a car show...we got the right stuff.

Friday and Saturday are Divisional Races.
Sunday the National.
Attend all three races 15 extra points.

Do a good bit of social media to attract the curious!

D

Re: IHRA and Memphis
 

Like Michael said death by a thousand cuts. I know people who had gold cards and didn't race with them this year. That's bad when you can race for free and don't go. It's like somebody else said they have lost their mojo, they don't matter anymore. I don't know how they fix it at this point, or if they can.