Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I wish them success.

I wonder when the last time NHRA raised the payouts for Comp or any of the Sportsman Eliminators?

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

We started in 98. The NHRA payouts are the same as back then. But there's half as many contingency's. I bought my first Superstock engine for ten grand. A new one was 13 ( from Koewn, our builder back then) , so I bought used . Now compare that to today . New ones are 35, 40 with all the whistles ...
Back then there was top qualifier money also, I remember some went for that, as it paid their fuel bill to get to and from the races.

Someone had the Sportnationals from Diamond P ( remember them !) on facebook last week and the commentator was saying that the winner < Bobby Warren, just won 8 thousand dollars ....In 1978.... That's the same as last years US Nationals SS winner ( if everybody pays him) .....40 years later

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

In 2008 I got $21500 for a S/S win @ Norwalk--2016 S/S win by Bryan @ Charlotte netted less than $13000--But of course tires -motors-fuel-parts and entry have gone up!

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Money is nothing now compared to the 70's. I won 9,500 for my 76 Fall Nationals win in Modified not to mention the serious amount of free parts, tires, etc. help we got going forward. A brand new Booth Arons motor was 5 grand and fuel was about .65 per gallon as well!.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I love Comp but let's be real it is extremely expensive to be competitive and that's what is keeping the cars home and new people from entering the class. I was recently looking at the classified ad Mr Aragona had on this site, what a steal for that altered but not many can justify buying it when there might not be a year or two left them you're stuck with something that's worth pennies on the dollar.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I agree totally.

I also agree that inclusion of the faster FS cars in to Comp could very well help save the class and the good news is they already exist.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

To all--- that $9500 in 1976 would be $41,300 in 2017 ---my how times have changed

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I probably should mind my own business on this one, but seeing it's in our section, here we go anyway.
So plan to rejuvenate and replenish Comp is to tell the same semi-retired racers to freshen up their stuff and come on out and race, because Comp is not going away until there are no cars left?
That's it?
Come on, boys. You can do better than that.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

In 1988 I was runner up in Montreal in SC won $8300 the following weekend at the IHRA Sportsnationals in Marion Ohio I won QR and won over $12,000 not even close these days for payouts but I really hope there is a save for comp eliminator

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Boy, I look at that ad every day and think, "do the boys really need to go to college?!"

I'd love to have that car and compete in Comp. I've seen how hard it is and how much luck in involved and I'd still love to give it a try. How bad does that make me :-)

I'll still pick up a couple lottery tickets and I've probably got Jr and Sr's numbers memorized from looking at them so much.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Korey, with that runner up last weekend, stay in SS and put your kids thru college. Congrats

Greg

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

The old saying probably applies to Comp eliminator racing more than some other categories...

"How to make a Million dollars in drag racing......Start with 2 Million! " :eek:

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Not much interest over here, I see.
I was thinking a few guys would offer suggestions to help our Comp friends.

How about a nostalgia Super Modified for 1st gen Camaros and Chevy II's ?
Maybe a spec or crate motor, stick shift deal?
Main problem with one class and index...As soon as one guy beats up the index, the rest of the new guys will be chasing him around with pitchforks.
Maybe this one needs some fine tuning.
A place to start a dialogue from, anyway.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Much as I love the original old school modified classes (those videos from Bowling Green are ones I can watch all the time) not too many of the "modern fans" NHRA seems to be catering to would give a damn about them. It would be nearly impossible to revive those classes, or the original Modified Eliminator as it was. The cost would be out of control over night, and NHRA would never want to bother with tech and factors in a class such as the old Modified Eliminator. Spec stuff and crate motors aren't going to help either.

I'd love to see it. But we can barely keep Stock and Super Stock from extinction. They seem to linger on the brink constantly.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I too would love to run comp, but the cost factor we kill me. Not many people can afford to be on the dyno at least once a month or more. Also in the old school modified classes it would be to hard to police the cylinder heads no matter what rules dictate. Somebody will always find a way to bend them. They have been many posts on the subject on Spec heads and engines but once again someone will bend the rules.

Bruce Cameron
68 Camaro Superstock ex-modified production
68 Nova Stock elim

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

For my return to racing, I seriously considered building a Super Stock Modified car. However, saw it more viable to build a Comp Super Modified.

One of my biggest issues in building the car was dealing with NHRA as regards to the rules on what is and is not allowed. When asked on a specific change on the car based on my interpretation of the rule book, I was usually told No. Then I would ask why it was allowed on a specific car, I never got an answer or response.

I know this same issue has happened to many friends that race in Super Stock GT in regards to what is allowed and not allowed in the class.

So, after much debate and a long discussion and email exchanges with Bruce at NHRA, and with my chassis builder buddy, I decided to build the car for Comp Super Modified class.

Another consideration was the drivetrain. There is not much difference between a Comp engine and a Super Stock Modified engine and most of the cars are running the same transmissions and rearends.

As regards to Comp dying, I don't see that happening soon. There are other cars being built and even Bob Book on his Facebook page shared he can't keep with the demand for Comp engines and has a backlog.

So, in a nutshell, I am looking forward to racing next year in Comp Super Modified with a 1994 Ford Mustang Cobra, with an awesome recent paint finish by Super Stock racer Sean Cour and Allen Sherman power.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Can't wait to see it!

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I know this forum may not be the right group of people to agree with this comment - but after a lot of thought and looking around the pits I would disagree that money is the reason people aren't running Comp. The pits are full of 75'+ race rigs that are all well north of $200k (RV + trailer), there are dozens of new Top Dragster and Top Sportsman cars being built every year (no cheaper to build than many Comp cars), and there is a HUGE growth in the small tire radial world. These fast growing classes that I just mentioned have no better payouts than Comp, have no qualifying money, or perks that unfortunately used to exist in Comp. But - they have some undefined draw to them that the Comp racers committee is trying to better understand to encourage these folks building new cars and growing their racing presence - to look at Comp as a class they may want to compete in. There are a LOT of people out in our sport with plenty of money to compete in whatever class they so choose, but there must be a reason that just isn't well enough understood yet as to why they aren't jumping into this great NHRA category.

Just my opinion,
Mike Mans

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Looking good, Joe
Appears to be at the CFR World Headquarters .

I still think you could use an infusion of new classes and racers there.
How about any NSCA classes that might cross over? I don't know what they have, specifically.

How about this ? Stick shift Super / Stockers are always fun to watch. They are already clutchless.
Knock about three tenths off the indexes, and give them the option of running Comp.
They could change combos to stay competitive.
Of course ,the automatic guys would say.."what about us?"
Just trying to make this more spectator friendly.
Powerglide dragsters never did much for me.
(Your opinion may vary)

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

You are right on the money Mike!

My chassis builder buddy has built many winning Comp cars.
Nevertheless, lately all he has built are Top Sportsman cars.

Many of the Top Sportsman cars cost more to build than a Comp car, not taking into account the cost of the engines and drive train.

The last Top Sportsman car he built, I could have purchased two rear wheels for the cost of one rear wheel for the Top Sportsman car and the car also has Pro Stock style Strange rear axles, almost 3 times the cost of my Strange axles.

Yet, the car still requires to be towed to the starting line and the same maintenance as a Super Stock Modified or Comp car such as checking valve springs and valve lash every run.

Nevertheless, their car counts are higher.

During a discussion with my buddy, we came to the conclusion that the reason why the class may have more participation is due to the use of electronics.

When you have a computer or device that you can put your opponents dial and yours, and just release a button at the top of the tree to launch, doesn't make sense to me because it takes away the driver element out of the equation.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Just based on talks and discussions, many Comp racers would welcome the inclusion of the Factory Showdown FX/XX cars in the class such as the COPO's, Cobra Jet's and Drag Paks.

You are correct Mark, the pictures were taken at the CFR headquarters.
Sean could even comb his hair by looking at the shiny paint of the car... :D

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Comp requires a lot of work and maintenance. So people don't want to work that hard at the track. If I had the money I'd buy a D/SM car tomorrow. Comp is awesome.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I can agree with the cost to build. All race cars are expensive to build. BUT, the difference between Top Sportsman and Comp is you don't continually spend money hand over fist trying to keep up. It's a shoe polish race. Does anyone else see the trend? Stock, Super Stock, Top Sportsman, Top Dragster are healthy because you don't have to have the latest and greatest to keep up. You Just have to be a driver. David Rampy once said Comp is a rich mans class that is running out of rich men.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Agree with some of your comments.

Like any other eliminator, it depends on the class you choose to race.
Comp Eliminator allows more creativity than other eliminators as regards to classes and engines to run.

Myself, I believe I am the only racer in the country building a Ford to run Super Modified class and its not a FWD car either, its a RWD car.

Can the Ford engine make the power to run against the Chevy powered cars in the class? I believe so and realize like everything in life, there is a learning curve. As an engineer, I enjoy challenge.

I have been told by many that I am crazy to run a Ford.
Nevertheless, a guy that I admire and respect very much as a racer, Mr. Jim Waldo, said to me, "Many years ago I was told I was wasting my time running the Ford Fairline. That made me work harder to prove others they were wrong".

The results of Jim Waldo's racing career with Ford products speak by themselves and I believe that if Jim had built a Super Stock or Modified Eliminator car, he would have been successful too.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Common Ed, have Allen build you a bullet for D/SM!
It would go fast and you will get smack postings from people like Allen does! :D

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Ben has some very true points in recurring costs. I don't think the T/S and T/D guys HAVE to spend $20k on freshen up routines every 40-50 runs, but I do believe the guys with blowers or a lot of nitrous are certainly requiring plenty of maintenance attention.

Speaking just from an obvservation - Pro Mod and Top Sportsman have been displacing the Pro Stock and Comp participants. If you have the money to compete in the class of your choice - you're still likely going to look at a "bang for your buck" perspective. Financially able business people can run a Pro Mod today for a fraction (call it half) of a Pro Stock operation, and be a contender to win every week. 20 years ago engines like you see in T/S and T/D didn't exist or were not reliable to the point that they are today - so I think the evolution of cost per HP and reliability of these classes have taken mind-share and market-share from Comp and Pro Stock.

There are still many folks that want to compete in the Comp class, and hopefully they start to come back out and participate - but I would recommend forgetting the "good ole days" of Comp with qualifying money, big purses, etc... Those days are behind us for all of the classes, and I don't foresee them coming back. Our economy is booming, stock market is consistently reaching all time highs - and we don't see payout improvements happening? If it isn't happening now, it won't happen. It would really surprise me if the needle moves back in an upward direction for payouts in NHRA - that is not a big enough priority to the organization.

Mike Mans

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I just think that the days of relying on more money coming from NHRA are over. I think that a sportsman or class org similar to Nhra Pro Mods "RPM" group is the best chance sportsman racers will have to increase payouts. Create a privatized conglomerate that can seek sponsorship and contingency outside of NHRA. I'm sure there is some difficulty in doing this but it seems like it would be better than expecting NHRA to find or provide the money to increase purses. With as many complaints about how poor NHRA is in this area, it would seem that something like this would be beneficial whether its done in a class specific manner or includes sportsman racing as a whole. You would then become your own governing body and can act and move on your own interest whether that's sponsorship, rules, or something else.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

There is a direct correlation between payouts and fan participation (not racer participation). A lot of the fan participation is due to the excitement generated (entertainment) and marketing. You want more payout?

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Mike,

Maybe if Wells Fargo clawed this back,
http://fortune.com/2016/09/12/wells-...rrie-tolstedt/
they could provide $1 million a year towards Stock, SuperStock, and Comp.
At 24 events plus the SportsNats divided by 3 is over $13,000 per class?
Oh to work for a company where numbers like this are a drop in the bucket.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I am surprised that they have not already reduced the number of events, running at the regionals such as TAD and TAFC.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I mean you'd be lying if you said that all forms of class racing aren't seeing a decline turnout?

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

for all of you who say you would like to run comp but its to expensive here you go, fastest d/e/d in the country, everything fresh ready to go, no. 1 qualifier at gainsville. price not much more than a new superstock motor, if interested call 605/237/2357 lynn engels

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

I like this. But we were basically turned down because they didn't think the class would be fast enough with a spec head. Crate anything will never go over in comp.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Works in 360 sprints. Way more populated then the open 410's. They have Brodix tech the head. I've seen several booted out.

Re: Comp racers seek to show eliminator is very much alive
 

Great post, Jeff.