Intelligent speculation needed
 

I know some of you ARE nuts - but is there anyone out there with some kind of qualified speculative answer:

Peter Biondo.....
Wouldn't you say he's as famous in the drag world as, say Richard Petty is to Nascar?
Given the fact that the Super Stock '70 Chevelle conv went for more than 1,000,000 dollars, and Grumpys pieced together Vega went for mega bucks.....

What do you think Pete's first Championship car (Hatari) is worth. Restored of course.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Bruce , keep on dreaming .

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Who the hell is Peter Biondo

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

I have heard that car was sold to a california racer on a down payment & that person stopped making payments. Then the car was supposedly wrecked. The car was not repaired. So if there was any value and this is true wouldn't it apply to the lienholder? That's the rumor I hear in the pits. Nobody would say who has the car now.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

I'd guess 15,000.00 to 20,000.00 as a roller if it had not been wrecked and rebuilt. Since it was totalled, it may be worth part value. Ever see the Antiques Road Show episode where somebody restored this old table? They made a million dollar table worth about 20 grand with their refinish job. Some things are better left alone. Or better yet, put it in a concrete bunker underground for 50 years and give it to the person who correctly guess's how many posts you have in the next 10 years. I'm glad you asked, I have not been entertained in a few days.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

I asked for it. That's m' boys - Put up your favorite fabrication to duplicate lowbrow truck stop bathroom wall ignorance.

Dilch? You too? geeez........

Gee whiz, I "heard" the car was being cosmetically restored for the NHRA museum. (Who has asked for it.) Who wants to make that bet??

Oh that's right - you're too chicken**** to put up your real name. So lets try this again.

Once it's in the museum, P-a-u-l, others, what do you think it will be worth??

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

I have what I feel is a serious and legitimate question. We've all read and heard about your unfortunate accident with the semi. You yourself posted how the truck, trailer and racecar were a total loss. Endless posts ensued about securing a lawyer, getting whats coming to you etc. It sucks, we are all sorry, glad you survived etc. With this in mind, my question is this: How do you "cosmetically restore" a car that was totalled/destroyed/rendered un-raceable? Do you re-letter HATARI on the destroyed car? I'm a hotrod guy and in our circles, unrestored HISTORIC cars bring the most money. Was it or was it not totalled? None of this is any of my business and I don't care one way or another. But since you asked for public input, these are questions that come about when attempting to give you the asked for meaningful input. Help me out on this so I can give you a proper dollar figure on my intelligent speculation. Johnny Shot (aka John Schiess)

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Johnny,
Google Bruce Fulper for some late night reading. It should be included in "Ethics 101" at your local community college.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rvandegrift/fulper.htm

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

If you believe that **** - shame on you. It's a total fabrication - AND - it's a hoot to read for a the smart people. Hey C. - go read this letter and give a comment please?

I invite everyone to read the famous "Vandergrift" letter. The guy shoots himself in the foot with his lies. "Pistons were in backwards" etc. Really - why would you have such an overwhelming desire to believe such stupidity? Huh?

C'mon boy - let everyone know what you're made out of - cause I'm standing RIGHT here willing to take any one of these bull**** allegations. One sided stories have NO place on this or any other site. Want to know the truth, come, get into my business - and when you're embarrassed you can apolgize - but - do "one siders" ever apologize? Only r-e-a-l men do.

You go "Rocketblock - have a ball trying to make me look bad. I've done nothing to no one. But when you're good, little people just LOVE trying to take you down. I'm sure you can also belittle my win at Indy too. Let's see how much of your childishness the moderator allows. Seems he has a hard on for me too anyhow.

I'm used to it Blockhead Block.

I still kick *** - have done NOTHING bad to anyone - and I'll be back on the track proving as soon as I can.

Yeah, read that letter. What a hoot. "Drove it for seven years then these problems arose."

That's what it says!
You got to be kidding right?

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Gary Hanson told me he can make it look ok. And might even make it a safe 12 second car. But it'll never be a 9 second car again without a toal build. And his his estimation it would be exactly like building a new car - which in his shop - is $80,000 plus. Do I want to restore it for that much? I don't think so, but it depends on what I will get for it. At least knowing I can make it look like the day I got it - yes, with the HATARI on it and everything - that will be ok for the museum.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Intelligent speculation needed. Be reasonable. The car has not gone up in value since you purchased it. If so, why? Whatever you paid for it is what it is worth. No more. Do you actually have a clear title for the car or is there a lien on the car? Since a commercial carrier supposedly rear ended you I would assume they have insurance. Two years now and they haven't paid on the property damage? Why? Is there a fight over who's actually at fault? If not, they must be fighting on the value. 3rd gen SS f bodies sell all day long for roughly $25K and that's about what you paid. Or didn't.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Just my thoughts, but the car is not "historic" enough yet to be worth much, especially if it's wrecked and only cosmetically fixed. Mr. Biondo is one of the toughest racers out there, but he has not become a legend like Da Grump. Also, that car does not have the signifigance of Grump's Vega which changed the face of Pro Stock, or the oddity of the Chevelle.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Key word - "Yet."
But I believe Pete has won more races than the Grump. He'll never be "The Grump" cause he doesn't design engines, engine parts, etc like Grumpy did. I only mentioned those other two cars because they are the only NHRA race cars with history that have been on the auction block that I know of. I guess a Sox and Martin car sold a while back. The historical signifigance of my car has value.

I thought there might be an appraiser with this kind of experience out there. We're not talking insurance. We're not talking plain replacement value. It's like being a stock broker..........

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Bruce...one big difference is that the "Hatari" car is not considered a vintage Musclecar. You cannot put the Firebird at the same level as those cars that have sold. All the cars that have sold at auctions such as the Sox & Martin car, Truppi-Kling Chevelle, Ramchargers, etc... and others, started and are very desirable musclecars. Sorry...but...with all respect to Peter Biondo and Phil...your car does not fall under the same category....unless...you are trying to have it appraised at the same level for insurance purposes.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

John Gallina sold his Buick SS GN. First 7 second SS, numerous world records well over a quarter-million into it. What did he get? $45K? Or was it $35K? That was at a premire auction block. Car's like Sox & Martin, Grumpy and other marquee drivers sell for a lot because they are muscle cars and / or driven by stars that little boys dream about. Their entire youth was spent reading about these cars and drivers in SS&DI and every other publication. They sometimes grow up to be rich men. They pay whatever it takes to get these cars. I don't think anybody but you see's this f body pontiac as a cash cow.
So what have they offered?

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Rocket block,your 1st post was on the money.For those that don't know me I was the last person to race this car & disassembled it before a trailer & 5K was sent East to pick it up.Mr Pontiac said don't worry I'll send the other 10K asap.Well the only thing that came for some time was it's a piece of junk & complaining.Now thats a been used by beaters for years but I always thought he might be using it to explain to people why his 6x-400 would only run 10:50's.Phil has a big heart & never got angry & just figured he would come thru someday.For 7 yrs or so I offered to collect but Phil declined.A few bucks trickled in & some new valves & lifter braces plus a 428 block & a couple of head cores.What really stuns me is a month or so ago the insurance adjuster calls & asks about the sale price & could he provide a letter with that amount.I said you got to be kidding,why not ask for the balance before you mail anything. But no being the guy he is a generous letter is sent.I have no axe to grind with Floper as from the early 90's I was warned by some good Pontiac racers never send any money.My purpose for writing this is that anyone with a brain can see the scam here. It can"t be worth anything since the present owner stated it wasn't a good car. The real scam would be if it shows up someday with Hatari on it's sides & looks a lot like Bales old stripper that the boy has now.Peter never drove that one.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

A few years ago, Joe Amato sold one of his top fuel cars on Barret Jackson. Joe was there personally to "hype " the crowd and it still only sold for something like $35000 .
Nothing against the Hatari car , but I feel Amato's name and reputation is significantly greater than this SS racer. Just to clarify I consider SS racing great entertainment.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Look Bruce,
Looks like you stepped on your dick big time! It's no longer a "bull**** allegations. One sided stories". I enjoy the company of the Biondo's at the races and have been waiting a long time for you to open up this can of worms. Knew you would do it too because you can't stay off the keyboards long enough to think straight. I'm glad the "real" story worked its way out of all the BS. Now look what you said: "and when you're embarrassed you can apolgize - but - do "one siders" ever apologize? Only r-e-a-l men do."
I'm wondering. When you pay up are you going to apologize?

Last thing I'm going to say. You won class at Indy. It's in every signature and post you make. It's on your phone message. It's all over your web site. I just want to know this. Why did you pack up and leave after going down the track? Drove all that way to enter a race and didn't stick around for the race. What's with that?

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Thanks Sal. Your a good man and the world knows it. Now the world knows "the rest of the story". And we all know Phil would give his last shirt off his back to anybody. Too bad this happened to him.
RB

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Support bacteria - They're the only culture some people have.

Sal - you're full of ****. Phil is a good friend - One of the nicest guys I ever met racing - I don't owe him a dime. I have every reciept of payment - so YOU lose. Ya think Phil would have lined me up at Indy if I owed him money? huh bright boy? Want to see it on YOU TUBE? All of you guys and your one sided **** go Fffff-f-f-f-fade way. There's NO terrible story to tell. Not a r-e-a-l one.

But gee, if it makes your day.......Talk to Phil in front of me ok big guy?

Then we'll see who's the cretin.






<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/IndyWinner/TwoHatarisPomona.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Here I am, hiding from Phil and Peter at Pomona. Man - talk about an incredibly stealthy charactor. You should have seen how I waited for those guys to go to the bathroom and I snuck my car into their pits for this picture. Neat how I had the time to line them up like this eh? I barely made it out of there. Whew!

oh dudes - give it up - cause I got lots more where this came from. My business - Phils business - Ain't YOUR business.



Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear
bright until you hear them speak.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Intelligent speculation needed - then I guess you can end all the Intelligent speculation needed by scanning the "paid in full" documentation and posting it here?

California is a long way from Indy. Why didn't you stick around for the race?

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

The facts won't change because you call people names. Take your antique picture & shove where you put that 428 when it exploded.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Mr. Fulper...Sal is a good guy and camnot see him just ranting his mouth without having any facts. I do not think he would put himself in a "defamation of character" situation without any facts or evidence. Name calling does not solve anything...Why you just don't post your evidence and clear your name?

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Hello to all,

1st of all I do think peter is on of the all time great's....I thought that well before me and him both got K&N as a sponsor............in all of this the key word to what this is worth is yet..... Give peter another 10 -15 years and some one will pay big money for this car,maybe not a racer but a FAN..........I have a piece of history that we are ready to repaint and show but 30 years ago it was not worth as much as it is now, it's worth more sitting on 4 flat tire's and covered in dust.......due to time. It's dad's 1969 W-31 convertable Factory backed oldsmobile that he drove for the smothers brothers team. why is this car valuble??????? HISTORY,
1. a 5 car stk factory backed team...not Super stock but Stock
2.It was the 1st dream team of racing with T/F team mates of Garlit's,Dwight Salisbury
and the stock team, Willard Wright,Pete Kost,Ron Garey,LoyedWoodland,and
Jimmy Waibel
3. There was only 26 W-31 conv. ever made
4. Dad is now in the Hall of Fame
5. Oldsmobile is no more.
So at the end of the 1969 season there was not that much value in these car's But now 30 years later I am willing to bet there is an oldsmobile fan out there that will give me alot of money for this car.. Maybe not a "racer" but a fan.

my thoughts on this matter...........
Jeremy Waibel
K&N 69 Camaro
NHRA B/SA 2231

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Children - my name is as clear as a mountain stream. Complete with bear whiz. (you)

Jeremey - thanks for a non-attack response. But I'm leaving this pile and going where other normal cats hang out.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

SSDIV 6 has the right idea. You claimed you have every receipt that shows it is paid in full. If you showed all the paid in full receipts to us you could make us look like chumps. Then you could clear your mountain stream name plus it would be a foundation for your value in the future. Then 30 years down the road you would have a piece of history worth something because of conflict and original base value. I'm sure this proof could go along ways making me think better of you instead of the stories i get from the round table at breakfast.
Thanks
Haywood Jablome. Ooooops
Jeff Stout

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

You can stop there. The car you own is worth a lot of money standing on it's own. It may have more value as a historical car. But having a W-31 convertible is worth a lot, no matter what year produced. Pull up www.traderonline.com or KBB.com. Look and see how much 1982-1992 Firebirds are worth. Now go to NADA.com. look up w-31 convertibles.

1969 W-31 Convertible has a high retail value of $62,545.

Kelly Blue Book shows a 1987 T/A with a 5.7L TPI, 97,000 miles (average) and every option in the book at high retail of $2,975.00. Same options but a base f-bird with a 5.0L engine is $2,520.00. If Jegs, Biondo, Fletcher or any of the other recognizeable name drivers of today had a SS/GT mid-80's Firebird for sale today what would it be worth? $25,000 to $35,000. That would be winning drivers selling today's technology today. And assuredly they would be cars that have not only won class at Indy, they probably would have stayed for the race and passed a teardown before winning the race.

The car was wrecked in the today. Insurance companies do not pay out on "future value".

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Mr. Waibel, there is no way....absolutely no way, some car from a Biondo, or any of the other current-day hot dogs, will ever be worth anything close to what your Dad's car is worth.

It is vulgar to suggest a truly historic piece such as your Father's W31, is on an equal plateau with some boring-***, cookie cutter, SS/Bowel/Movement car of today.

The only thing memorable from "Hatari", was John Wayne and Red Buttons.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Well, I was going to stay out of this, hoping Bruce would say good-bye and end this scam... Number one I have been racing in Div 1 longer than most have been around and I don't think I have ever heard a bad word said about Sal..Yes, he has been close to the Biondo's/Phillip for a long time and know the real story !!!!
Anyway this sounds like another HUSTLE story like I read on all the Pontiac sites which you can't go on anymore... We really don't want to start bring back all those old Pontiac scam's on to this site... So let's let it go and move it over to your favorite (other) site, where they don't really know who you are ! ! ! Hey Bruce thanks for your understanding, and keep the car out west, we don't need the name calling anymore just facts.....Oh yes, I am a Pontiac racer and have been for almost 20 years, so I do know what I am talking about.... Sal, isn't the problem here................... Dave...1033/stock

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Dave---You're soooooo right....what started out as a guy looking for some info from his internet "friends" has turned into another OJ "what if".Who cares if it was paid for--the point is about history or lack of (by the way-if it wasn't paid for it adds more to the "story"and its value).This needs to end soon.As for Jeremy Waibel--its so cool for him to be restoring his fathers car--he was racing it just as I started racing myself and as a friend of John Troxell I remember those guys very well--that Olds group were very tight bunch with terrific factory support.And you Dave-well I thought you were into Pontiacs longer than your stated "almost" twenty years--that almost makes you a rookie.Myself--well.....did you know that I was '72 Summernationals G/SA class champ--kind of makes me OLD. Keep in touch pal..............

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Yea I guess yall are right...but just maybe one day peter's car might be worht a little bit more than right now..............

Jeremy Waibel
driver of the K&N '69 camaro
NHRA B/SA 2231

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

"Yea I guess yall are right...but just maybe one day peter's car might be worht a little bit more than right now"

Look, kid....let's not get silly here. You want to have some love affair with some Oscar Meyer, fine. But please don't disrespect the memory of TRUE greatness and history.

No car owned by these people will ever come close to the value in both money and/or memory of what you have in your Dad's car. Nothing against them, but their accomplishments are of another time and place. Do not equivocate the modern day "winner" with the earlier era. It is incumbent upon you to protect...... not equivocate.... your place in history from pure boredom.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

I agree, these early guys can be considered the pioneers of the sport.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Never mind the Hatari Firebird. What about the Buick wagon, now that was a great car. Sam used to tow the 69 Hatari Firebird to the track with it and Sal, Peter,or Crista raced it and won almost every weekend. They were the good ol days.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Well, trust me when I say I never talked to this Sal guy, ever - so whatever reason he had to dive into my *** like he did, no matter how nice a guy he might be, he might need a gut check. Talked to Montieth today and he was surprised and sad that Sal would talk like that to me. No one in that camp has ever said a negative word to me. Hell, Daddy Sam B called me and offered to sell me his car after the accident. Might not have been because of the accident, but he knew I needed a car, and if I ripped off Phil...well duh.

Appreciate the support on this site. And Jack - you right man - I'm outa here forever. That's why I liked the "other" site at first. All names - right? Then Dale didn't have enough sense to treat me nicely, even after I gave away over $500 dollars worth of cams for Dave Youngs Mystery Track contests. Nope - Dale was bright enough to ban me for 30 days cause of this post I made. Here's my actual post in reference to a post from the GT/CA Indianapolis Pontiac Slow Poke:

"There goes this post."

Tell me how harmful THAT was......And some guys wonder why they can't get sponors.
Dale bolstered his friendship with whathisname - and lost free cams for his site.

Outa here.........

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Well, before you go Dick. I just talked to Phil at Bandimere.As he told you yesterday leave him out of this as it is not his nature to argue about things & he doesn't even rear whats on here.I read this stuff to him all the time when he is in my office.We live at the same address & have been friends for 38 yrs.He is an intimate part of the Piacentini family & my wife calls him my girlfriend because he knows more about me than her.Even my ex-wife from 19yrs ago still fawns over him when we are back in Ct.Go figure.You didn't dispute any of the facts from my post.The straw that broke the camels back was you called Phil & wanted an sales price of almost 3 times what you almost paid.Now this scam is the killer.But i do have an idea for you.Instead of sending very old pictures why not a more realistic one.Phil will be at Sonoma in 2 weeks.You can have one of your cronies hold the camera & when Phil bends over the Cobalt you can run up behind him & press yourself against his backside.Now that would remind everybody how you treat your friends.By the way he will be 70 the week after Sonoma & he loves cake but we have that covered.An envelope with some green would be nice,don't worry about the interest.
Sam would have been glad to get rid of Duncan's Firebird but you forgot to mention you had to pay for it first. Duh...

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Bruce, I would have never join this post until you used my name to lend credibility to your self. That was a mistake. Yes I called you about a car I had for sale and also called 20 other racers. BTW $5000. down and the rest when you have it would not work with me. You seem to take advantage of Phil’s passive personality, see if he would ever sell you anything again. As you know Sal and I are very close to Phil and we both know everything that went on with that transaction. I know for a fact that what Sal posted was 100% true fact. Comparing Peter with Richard Petty is a JOKE. Just another scam to further your claim against the insurance company. Sam Biondo If you need to call me 732 683 0404.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

Well Bruce...you finally got caught with your pants down...it is very sad that you try to use others for your benefit and try to make yourself look like an expert or a king on the expense of others...your true colors are out. Now, let see your rebuttal to the Biondo family, to Sal, to Dave and others... get a real job instead to misleading others. I like the fact Dale banned you since time on time, you bashed other great Pontiac racers such as Don Kennedy, Lynn McCarthy and others.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

First off I never asked for a sales price of THREE times what I paid for it . From who? Phil?That's utter bull.

You guys are amazing. Sounds like you guys sit around talking about stuff and then when it gets brought up somewhere else it gets blown out of proportion. Worse than a bunch of old women.

Sam, you talked to me nice several times and never carried on as if there was something wrong. So excuse me for thinking you and I were ok.

So, as all of you best friends of Phil knows - the car has been paid off for a quite while now - Phil sent me the title a couple of christmas ago. So there's never been an issue of anyone owing anybody anything. And I don't have to prove a damn thing to anyone. So Sal, you don't think Phil and I hung out at Indy? You don't think he helped me with those new radial slicks in the bunbrout box? I suppose the pics of us hanging out at my pits wouldn't make any difference to you either. Pics I take cause I want to remember good times with good people. Phils been nothing but helpful and nice to me. And me to him.

Getting a fair price from an insurance company is damn near impossible. What - do you guys think I'm trying to get $1,000,000 out it? Get real.

Well, no thanks for the no help.

Signed,

Life is good.

Re: Intelligent speculation needed
 

almost feels like a lynching, doesn't it?