Going DEEP....
 

Does anyone know why NHRA has banned Deep Staging in stock?Force and Cruz are allowed yet a guy in a 14 second front wheel drive car can't.....makes no sense..... Joe Mocci ..m/sa

Re: Going DEEP....
 

You are going to have to look at the man in the mirror for the answer.


http://www.dragracingonline.com/goindeep/iv_5.html


In other words, "we have seen the enemy and he is from within".

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Not necessarily.
You had people voting against,...who had higher class cars, or stick shift cars, that never deep staged or never needed to, voting against it
You even had some who didn't even understand the concept, and they were voting against it too.
It wasn't even close to a fair poll, or representation.


This is the takeaway line from my friend, the late Dale Wilson's article:

"Here is my take on it. If I were racing Stock or Super Stock, I wouldn't care what the guy in the other lane did, as long as I had a fair chance to stage and go. "

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Just one more instance of the whiners and malcontents making enough noise to get their way!

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Deep staging and buttons on the steering wheel were outlawed because.....THEY didn't fit some racers AGENDAS........

Re: Going DEEP....
 

You don't think it was because deep staging makes your ET show slower? You can run faster than the clocks show? Only very slow cars can get a green light doing that. What is right about some cars being able to actually break out, and not show it? The vast majority of cars can not get a green light that way. If it was ever put to a vote of the racers, it would lose.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Well put Mark....you are spot on....Thanks,Joe Mocci

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Ed.....And you figured this out all on your own ? It was put to a vote, a select FEW voted to outlaw Deep Staging according to NHRA . Of course , NHRA also told us that there was a Break In at Wayne Co. Speed Shop years earlier sooo......pardon my skepticism

Re: Going DEEP....
 

[QUOTE=Greenlight;489046]You are going to have to look at the man in the mirror for the answer.


http://www.dragracingonline.com/goindeep/iv_5.html


In other words, "we have seen the enemy and he is from within".[/QUOTE

When was the last time NHRA allowed racers to vote on anything?? Ps.great article. Joe Mocci

Re: Going DEEP....
 

I never heard of a vote. If the racers voted, at least in SS, it would get voted down. Almost nobody could get a green light staging that deep. They don't make buttons THAT slow. LOL

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Those of us who run slower stockers would benefit from being able to deep stage.
As we are in the minority, we lost the vote. I have to leave when I see the second amber going out, not an easy thing to teach an old racer.

Jim Mantle V/SA 68

Re: Going DEEP....
 

x2

Re: Going DEEP....
 

The sportsman classes should be just like the pros. You only need one light to start, and that is the stage. The problem to me is racers putting deep on the window, and expect special treatment, when they stage. It is something extra that is not needed or wanted. The prestagr was to just tell you , your getting close to the stage. It adds to the confuline, easily when the slower time wins the round due to reaction time being lower and a slower et. I think NHRA did it to take out some of the variation in this technique of rolling. It is stupid to me that I roll in and the prestage goes out and I am staged, but I go red. Just because I let the top bulb go out. If the rule is that great, then the pros should do the same thing. I have to roll in to get good lites, and I run super gas. If the top bulb flickers I am red. But if the bottom bulb flickers, cause you too shallow, well I believe that have a fix in the timing system for that, and you don't go red. I want it just like the pros. I roll in and the top bulb goes out, so what I am staged. Also could be for the rule is that you know where you are when the top bulb goes out, and can adjust you delay, or what ever to be even better. Let's race and do it like the pros. I believe it would liven thing up on the starting line

Re: Going DEEP....
 

At the local tracks I've been to, if a competitor wants to stage deep, as a racer courtesy he is -expected- to get in there and get staged first so as not to "hold up the show". Much like Jim Mantle stated, I already know from past experience that if forced to shallow stage, I too will have to leave in between the second and third yellows in order to cut a good light with a 14 second 6 cyl car. The reason for a deep stage in my world is simply to adjust where I leave on the tree, not to get closer to the finish line. Even though I've always had slow cars, I just wanted on leave on the last yellow like everybody else gets to do!
But its OK, I'll figure out the adjustment either with shorter tires or brain cells..been through the wars many times before.

As far as deep staging being an advantage--you have to run what's written on the window or slower so I don't see that being an issue as far as ET is concerned. Doesn't mean a deep stage guy will always cut .00_ lights either.
Yeah, I get where a fast car can ET slower than what they're fully capable of if they're in deep, but the only time I can see that really meaning anything is when you can run 1.20 unders or better at will.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Funny, I've never had a problem shallow staging. I didn't deep stage when I could.
I would rather see NHRA do away with the pre-stage bulb then go back to allowing deep-staging.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Hey Billy....you were lucky to have a mentor like Ed to teach you the rope.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

You don't mean Eddie, the King of the Deep-Stagers do you?

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Getting the car to leave and hit the tree may sacrifice some ET or time & $$

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Deep staging is the same difference between S/C S/G and SST. Why does SST have a .500 tree and S/C, S/G have a .400 tree? It's because the weight of the cars which in turn is the same as deep staging the SST car on a .400 tree. The only reason for the "pre" stage bulb is to let the driver know he's close to the starting line. Take out the pre stage beam and the question of deep wouldn't even come into conversation.
People who race should know what the purpose of the lights are used for then the term deep would be a mood point.
Deep should be allowed in any category and through out courtesy staging. If you go deep, just get in before the other racer and let him take his time. The other racer has 7 seconds to stage after he lights his first bulb, that's plenty of time to clear engine and all the other reasons not to get in.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: Going DEEP....
 

The button on the sreering wheel was the one i never understood still have it just on your foot

Re: Going DEEP....
 

That applies to slow cars as well. That means something even if you can barely run the index. Bracket racers started doing that many years ago for that very reason. Not for their lights.
I had a car so slow once I had to leave when the 4th (old tree) amber went out. Just something you have to learn to do if your car is that slow. You learn to do whatever your car requires.
Some of us have to use a blinder, and even block the top half of the bottom bulb to try to get a green light. Yes, that helps a little.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Ed(Wright not Fernandez), that's why you're one of my heroes!

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Billy, you don't have that bar set very high.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

They were misinformed.

All depends on what you drive, and how you drive it. Of course you already knew that ;-)


That would include roller skate wheels on the front of a 5000# LTD ,right?

Re: Going DEEP....
 

[quote=Mark Yacavone;489136]They were misinformed.Why would anybody try to race something like that? If you chose something like that, you leave earlier on the tree. Or, make a sane choice for a race car. Why would anybody want to race a 5000# LTD?

Re: Going DEEP....
 

That's right you do what you hafta do, which would include deep staging.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

[quote=Ed Wright;489139]: )

Re: Going DEEP....
 

[quote=Billy Nees;489144]Ed Wright,

Billy Nees found out that on the 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 they had a JATO Bottle system option. Therefore, he convinced NHRA to allow him to use it on the LTD and the reason he doesn't need to deep stage! :)

It appears The JATO bottle was also an option on the GM big car product line...

Re: Going DEEP....
 

[quote=SSDiv6;489145]Sounds like Billy. :-)

Billy would be smart enough to know how to drive it.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Pro's are the only ones NHRA are interested in you would think by now everybody would realize that.........

Re: Going DEEP....
 

NHRA wanted to get rid of the slower cars, this would shorten time allowed for stock eliminator and would remove many from running competitively for class at National events. Look what has happen in Class, hardly any cars populate the lower echelons.Now more time can be spent letting the pros have ten guys cleaning their tires before a run.CR.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

“Going DEEP”: Kinda the dirty cousin of the baffling “first red light” thing.

Who in their right mind could possibly be against the worst red light loses?

Only those that believe there is any value to the ongoing Paris “Global Climate Talks” could think a “first red light loses” makes sense.

If you believe that the first red light ought to lose, then you certainly believe in “Global Climate Control”.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

x2

Re: Going DEEP....
 

You are allowed to deep stage just don't put out the top bulb :eek:

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Bill, sorry to disappoint you but Toby was the King of the Deep Stagers. I felt I needed to DS but after the rule change me,Toby and every other deep stager adapted. In the end I found a way (mentally and mechanically ) to adapt and found you could hit the tree with a car going 1.75 to 1.78 sixty foot.
And all this time I thought I was an icon in Billy's mind. Cest la vie.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Ed,...No disrespect but....
You don't think it was because deep staging makes your ET show shower?
You can run faster than the clocks show?......

So Ed if you swallow stage and drop it at the thousand you aren't showing what to can run either......

Only very slow cars can get a green light doing that...
Took my stocker to englishtown for a bracket race....80% of the cars dialing from 9.00 to 15.99 deep stage.....

Joe Mocci m/sa

Re: Going DEEP....
 

[QUOTE=JOE ZOOM;489181]Ed,...No disrespect but....
You don't think it was because deep staging makes your ET show shower?
You can run faster than the clocks show?......[QUOTE]

Isn't that what I said, Joe? Of course, that is why many bracket racers do that. You can actually run a little quicker than the clocks show. That is the point.

[QUOTE] So Ed if you swallow stage and drop it at the thousand you aren't showing what to can run either......[QUOTE]

Not sure how that is related.

[QUOTE]Only very slow cars can get a green light doing that...
Took my stocker to englishtown for a bracket race....80% of the cars dialing from 9.00 to 15.99 deep [QUOTE]

Joe, evidently not all fast foot brake cars react fast. Before Eastexas Race Cars back halved my SS car I could deep stage and get a green light. Not now. Imediately had to go to 28" front tires, lower my 2 step RPM, and find a slower button. I still struggle with red lights. No way I could deep stage now and be green. Hard to imagin a good working nine second car reacting slow enough to be green while deep staging. That takes a slow reacting car-and-or-driver.

That's the rule. I'm done.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

what defines a "good working nine second car" to you?

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Guess I should have said: Nobody I know has a nine second car that reacts slow enough to deep stage. I guess a driver could be that slow reacting. Again, nobody I know.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

well take it for what's it's worth since I'm not a class racer but to Joe's point, it can be and is done with fast cars.

My MPR built Super Stock GT Firebird by all accounts IS a very good working nine second car that now has a 900+HP BBC under the hood, backed by a stock gear set turbo400. I'll go so far as to say it's the best working 9 second car in Division 1 running brackets, posting a best 60 foot of 1.17 and typical 60 foots are between 1.19 and 1.22 depending on weather and track and .09 slower when breaking the 60 foot clocks with the back tires.

FYI, back in October I decided to deep stage my Firebird mainly to see if I could.

Well after 3 hits, lowering my stage RPM and adjusting my front shocks for more wheelie, my reaction times were between -.004 and .022 launching at 2400 RPM. Will continue this exercise next season.

Video...

http://s381.photobucket.com/user/foo...vqly9.mp4.html