Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK ya'll, I've been encouraged to start my own thread. So here goes. I reckin my story started way back around 1963 or so when the GTO was born. A popular newspaper in my area started running ads about the GTO. And many of the ads would have a Tiger in 'em. Well, it was love at 1st sight, I guess you could say. I collected all the ads I could find and started covering the walls in my room with 'em. Within a couple of years my room had GTO wallpaper ! I also bought the 45rpm record of the GTO song and played it over and over til my family was tired of hearing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_FSicQWimU

I suppose you could say that from that time on I was a "Pontiac Freak". There was no doubt in my mind that I would someday drive a GTO of my own. I remember examples of the 1st 3 year model Goats in my home town. The 1st was a red '64, then a light blue '65, then a black '66--all 4-speeds with 3-dueces. I watched 'em cruise around town lookin real cool and then burnin rubber when the law wasn't lookin. Hey, a schoolmate even borrowed his brothers '65 and took some of us guys for a spin. It was awesome ! I'd never ridden in a car that would burn rubber and bark 'em again when shifting. Yeah, the Musclecar era was a great time to be a young gearhead.

Anyhow, fast forward to '69. I was going to college and working all the hours I could at a nearby Pizza Inn. I was only making $1.50 an hour. That's right-- a buck fifty. But you have to understand, things were a lot cheaper back then. So, since I was makin the big bucks, :D I decided it was time for me to have my very own GTO. So I went down to the Pontiac Dealer to order one. They had a Judge in the showroom. I really liked everything about it, except the color. To me it looked like "Halloween Orange". I told the salesman that I was not about to ride around in no orange car--not even a GTO !

So, I was gonna order one in a different color. But in early '69 that was the only color they came in. Later in the year, other colors were available. But I didn't know that then. So I asked the salesman if I could get the Judge engine and stuff in a reg GTO. He said I could get everything except the rear deck spoiler and the Judge stripes and decals.

So, I ordered it--silver with black int, bench seat with fold down arm rest(so my girlfriend could sit closer to me :D), 400 Ram Air 3 engine, close ratio 4-speed, 3.90 posi rear, radio with a rear speaker, and nothing else. Less than 6 weeks later, I was driving down the street past the Pontiac dealer when I met a truck load of new Pontiacs coming down the street. And there it was, in the middle of the bottom row, my silver GTO !

So, I did a "bat turn" and followed the truck to the dealership. I sat and watched as they unloaded all the new Pontiacs. I went in to talk to the salesman. He said they would have to service it out in the shop before I could leave with it. So, we took care of the paperwork, and soon they were thru with it and parked it right outside the showroom door. I hadn't ordered any special wheels, so it came with some rinky dink hub caps. I took 'em off and gave 'em to the salseman.

Then I got in MY GTO and drove off down the street. I'll never forget that feeling as long as I live. That car was a source of great pleasure for me that day and for many years thereafter. Yeah, I love Pontiacs ! So you guys will just have to excuse me if I seem a little prejudice and talk mostly about Pontiacs. And it makes no difference at all, that Pontiacs are no longer made. The last 400 engine came in a '79 model. So except for the little 301, that was it for Pontiac powered cars.

But, because of aftermarket parts, you can now build a Pontiac engine without a single GM part. NHRA even allows many of these parts in Stockers and Super Stockers. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

So what year firebird/engine combo are you wanting to build? Stock or Super Stock?

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, that 1st post was just a little background info. Now for the thread. Both TJ(my wife) and I began racing in Stock class. We both won quite a few races. But, then all the small tracks in our area started running nothing but bracket.

I'd noticed that the stockers today are running at least 2 sec quicker than we did back then. That got my curiosity up. So I started doing a little research to see if I could find out how they are able to go so quick. The HPP mag article about Scott Burton's B/SA '70 RA4 Bird, answered a lot of my questions. But it also brought up a lot of other questions.

Then I found this site. But most of you guys were using terms that I was not familiar with. I could tell that you guys were just taking for granted that all the other guys on the site knew all the terminology. Anyhow, I snooped around long enuff to come across Brent's '68 Firebird thread. I was very interested in it, because he was building the same combo TJ raced, way back yonder. And, he was trying to do it on a budget.

While searching for other Pontiac builds, I ran across Mr. Billy's $1000 Pontiac 301 thread. That really picked up my interest. I had never even heard the term "dime rocket". I could tell that most of the quick Stockers today are high dollar builds. So to read about running under the index on a small budget, was a fun read. Anyhow, it got me to thinking about what I could build, on a small budget, that could possibly run the index.

Now understand that my local tracks don't run class--only bracket. But they've started having a division race near Shreveport, which is about a 2 hour pull. I may never even try to build another Stocker. But it's fun to think about ! So, I decided to dig into it and see just exactly what it would take to build a low buck Pontiac Stocker that would run it's index.

I figure that even if I never actually do the build, this thread will be very interesting, at least to me, and might provide some good info that will help somebody else who is considering a build themselves.

I know that some of you guys don't reveal your Stocker secrets. I'm OK with that. But I'll be asking a LOT of questions about exact details. So, for all you guys who have the experience and the time, and are willing to share, I'd appreciate your input and opinions !

One thing I'd like to request is that when you mention a particular part, that you also mention aprox cost(since this is a budget build thread)where to buy it, including a link or contact info. I say this because, I have been unable to find a source for some of the parts that I've seen mentioned. When I see a part I'm interested in, I like to be able to click on a quick link and learn more about it--price, specs, etc.

If I had plenty of $$, I'd just buy a new motorhome, trailer and a competitive Pontiac and go racing. But since that doesn't seem to be the case right now, I'll settle for this budget build thread. So there is no reason to say, you get what you pay for, and suggest the most expensive parts, for this particular build. Instead, it will have to consist of barely get by, cheaper stuff. I realize that some would not even consider racing if they could not have the best of everything and run close to a sec or more under. But then there are the rest of us who just love to race, with whatever we can afford. TJ and I have won lots of races with our low budget Pontiacs. So, I know how rewarding it can be.

Lookin forward to learning a lot from this thread. And I'd like to thank ya'll in advance for providing helpful info from your experience. And for any who may be considering a build, please feel free to ask questions on this thread, so we all can learn from it. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

No decisions made. This thread is to explore possible combos, that might possibly be built to run the index or just slightly under, on a small budget, if such is possible. I think ya'll call 'em "dime rockets" ?

I have a '74 Ventura 2 bracket car now. It has a mild, iron head 455, TH400, 4.10 gears. Runs 7.30's 1/8 mile, footbrakin . But Bill Rink and another record holder got the hp factor up too high to use the '74 GTO body.

I also have a '68 bracket Bird under construction. It has a mild 455 with 6x heads, TH400, 9" converter, and 4.56 gears. Should run about a 7 flat 1/8 mile. I assume that would be a mid 11 sec 1/4 mile ET.

Now this motor would not be legal in a '68 Bird, except in GT/SS. But, a similar engine would work in '71-'76 Birds and A-bodies. To run the Bird in Stock, I'd need a 330hp 400. But Brent has already done a thread on his build with that combo. And I think the hp factor is too high on the 350HO in that model.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Have you considered the Ventura 350?

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Listen to Mr Southerland, You need to get the best stuff you can.The cheap wont be cheap in the long run.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Geez....if you've got a 74 Ventura that you're already racing, you're halfway there. Make sure and use Dwight's classification guide for any easy way to look at combos and engine specs. -Al

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Default.aspx

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, lookin at it from a low budget standpoint, I need to make use of the parts I have, as much as possible. So, what I have the most of is 6x heads. They came on 350's 400's and according to NHRA even on some '76 455's.

So, using the 6x 455 that I already have built, I could run it in any of a long list of Pontiac bodies, from a TA in H/SA to a 5000 lb + wagon in Q/SA.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2107

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2107

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

Now here's where the hp factors come in. The '75 455 had 5c heads, according to NHRA. Well, they are almost identical to the 6x heads. But the '75 455 is factored 10hp lower than the '76. I gather that you would have to carry aprox 100 lbs more weight, which would = about a tenth difference in ET. Is this correct ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2098

And in '75, according to classracerinfo.com the 455 was not available in the TA. And cars were real heavy back then. The lightest body I could use, weighed over 4000lbs. :eek:

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2098

The only advantages I can see to using a '76 TA body, besides the fact that they use 6x heads, is that they look a lot better and may be a little more aerodynamic than the '75 A-bodies, big cars and wagons. But is that worth the 10hp penalty ?

One advantage I can see for using one of the big cars is the purchase price of a good body. Most have been crushed long ago. But, if you can find one, they should be a lot cheaper than a good, '76 TA body.

So, for some of you guys who have played these hp factor and weight games, what do you see as the best option of all these '75 & '76 455 combos ? :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Now, here's something I found interesting. All the info I can find says that the 455 was available in late '75 TA's. I even found some pics of a restored 455 HO '75 TA.

Now they were HO in words only. There was absolutely nothing different in the TA engine and a 455 wagon engine. But anyhow, I wonder why the classracerinfo site doesn't show that it was indeed available in a '75 TA ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2098

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Yes, the 350 was the only Pontiac V8 available in the Ventura, including the '74 GTO. But after Bill Rink ran so quick with it, NHRA hit it with big hp refactor. It's up to 277hp now. He switched over to SS with the car and has done quite well with it.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2088

Basically the same engine is only 250hp in '77. That engine has been raced quite successfully. :)

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=763

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

The '68 350HO 320 hp @ 305 factored hp (6/30/08) isn't totally out of line. Pretty stout little motor...good camshaft, darn near 12:1 compression ratio (at max. bore), etc.

The other thing to think about on the Ventura is that the hp factor occurred 11/10/2005. Lacking a bunch of cars running this combo, it seems a review of that factor would be in order by NHRA.

FWIW. -Al

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Again, the main reason for exploring the '76 455 possibilities, is because I already have a running 455 with 6x heads, in my '68 bracket Bird. I can get it running good in the bird and see if it has the potential to run the index in a heavier '76 body.

At 3664lbs, the TA is the lightest body I could run. That's an 11.82 weight break. If I understand the rules correctly, you can add weight to make the next lower class, or take out weight to fit the class better. So, to fit the 11.50 weight break perfectly, that would be 11.5 x 310 = 3565lbs.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2107

That would run H/SA, which has a 12.15 index. Some of you guys who know how to figure all this, please check my calculations and see if I am correct.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

I think my 455 will run at least mid 11's in the '68 Bird. I haven't weighed it, but it should weight just over 3000lbs. So, if I put it in a '76 Bird which weighs 3565, that should slow it down by about .57 sec. So, if the motor runs an 11.50 in the 3000lb Bird, then it should run between 12.00 and 12.10 in the heavier '76 TA, with the same trans, converter and rear gears.

Now I'm not use to figuring out all this stuff. We just ran a '68 Bird at 3300lbs with a 330 hp engine and it came up exactly 10.00. So some of you guys who know how to figure all this out, please check my calculations and see if I'm anywhere in the ball park. Thanks !

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Oldskool,
I will be watching this with interest.
One thing to remember on the weight calculations, you have to add 170 lbs for the driver to the weight. So your 310 hp times 11.5 weight break = 3565 + 170 = 3735 lbs race weight.

I have a 67 Firebird Convertible that I run in IHRA stock, with a zz4 crate motor (G/CM). I also bracket race it. More brackets than anything last year and probably this year, as I have a son who just started Jr. Dragster racing.
Would love to build a 400 - 4 speed combo eventually, and I have a set of 670 heads and intake - 1967 only combo on the 400. But time, work, kids, money, etc. all have this on hold. My car is originally a Sprint OHC 6 car, and I have the original motor in the shed.
Good luck with your build.
There are some really knowledgeable Pontiac people on here that are always helpful. If you ask nice, sure you will get all the help you need.

Ken

Stock 412

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Yeah, I thought about the 350HO. But at 305, the '75 455 is 5hp less and the '76 is only 5hp more. And the 455's have so much more low end torque. Also, the little 350 will have to turn up some high rpm to run the number. That means a crazy cam and high spring pressures.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

The 455 on the other hand, will max out at no more than 6000rpm. That means you can get by with a reasonable cam, spring pressures and normal lifters. That alone will make the 455 cheaper to build and maintain. We had several 455's that ran mid 12's for hundreds of passes, without changing cams, springs or lifters. And they were running a TH400 tranny, stock 13" converter and 3.55 gears. So I would feel a lot more confident about the possibility of reaching the goal, for a reasonable price, if using a 455.

From what I have learned so far, from this site, it looks as if the higher the rpm you must turn, the more the engine will cost to build and maintain. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Okay, I remember the article, and your driver...somewhat...but what is or was her full name, and yours?

Oh ,and let's get this out of the way right now:

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, I think I can explain all this. My name is Don Hurst. They named a shifter after me. :D

My wife goes by her initials, which are T & J. She doesn't like her real name that much, so everybody has just called her TJ now for about 40 years. She just said "But I'm not really that old." :D

Now, about Freddie: Back in the old days, most people named their car. So TJ named her car "Easy Lovin". She designed all the numbers and lettering herself, and cut them out of Mylar decal material. That name came from the Freddie Hart song by the same name. It was one of her favorite songs back then. In fact, it was a lot of people's favorite song. If the online info is correct, the song won top country song of the year in both 1971 and 1972. It was #1 on the country charts for 3 weeks, even reached as high as #17 on the Billboard chart.

And as you can imagine, it got a lot of air time on the radio, on both pop and country stations. TJ just said she even remembers it being played over the PA system at some of the tracks where we raced.

So, when people saw that name on her car, they all could relate it to that song. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

TJ used the EZ name thru the '78 season, then changed it to "Born Again". One pic below shows her blasting off at I-20 Dragway in Tyler, Texas, in '79.

The other pic shows her '67 Bird which ran a best of 11.82 in '88. Beginning around '76 into '77, all the local tracks we ran switched to bracket only, with very few exceptions. They did have an IHRA points race in Tyler in '78. But they also ran a 16 car bracket field at that race. TJ won it from the #16 position. :D

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Mark probably has more insight on this --but--We looked at that 75-76 455 but if I'm not mistaken the head CCs jumped about plus 20 CCs from 1974. At a loss of about 2 compression ratios we decided to pass.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

68 Firebird. The 400 combo rated at 327 like Brent runs can run the index without much trouble or expense. If you want it to be a killer, then you need a good trans converter and some testing time and effort. You will have to rpm these some to make them run well.

the 350 combo could be an interesting deal. Good compression, better heads for the smaller size. 305 is a good place to start with these. This should run the index without much trouble. Parts should be easy to find, as well.

Either car you build should get you into the game without a munch of expense, getting to the next level is the harder part. Expense wise

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

We'll get around to possible 350 and 400 combos later. But since I already have a couple of 455's together, I wanna discuss 455 combos some more. I already mentioned using a '76 TA.

But now I wanna explore the possibility of using one of the heavier bodies. One of my Pontiac heroes from the old days was Jack Mullins. We saw him run at a points race in Jackson, MS in the mid '70's. He ran a screamin 389 and a 4-speed in a big heavy wagon.

Jack won some big races. I think it was at the US Nationals where he beat the factory Mopar driven by Judy Lilly(Miss Mighty Mopar). I think he was responsible for several hp refactors on the 389 Pontiac engine.

Another famous Pontiac racing wagon was the "Tons a Fun" Lemans wagon. I think Gary and Charlene Wood both won races in this wagon--actually there were at least 2 of them.

http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/...ntiac-history/

I can see at least 3 advantages of using a wagon. (1) They are heavy, putting you in a much lower class. (2) A lot of that weight is in the rear, which should help increase traction. (3) If you can find one that hasn't been crushed, it should be cheaper than a TA.

Now there are several other big cars that were about the same weight as the wagons. Some of these had a real long wheel base--123". Some, like the Grand Prix, had a shorter wb--116"

Now, my thinking is that the big cars with the real long wb would be the least desirable for a drag car. I would think that either a Lemans or a GP would be a little easier to hook up, than the big car with the longer wb. What do you guys think ?

One other advantage I can see that the heavier cars might have is that you can run the stiffer radial slicks with a lot of air pressure. They will still hook because of the extra weight over the tires, especially the wagons. And the higher air pressure will produce less rolling resistance.

After looking at the list of '76 models that can run a 455, it looks to me like the Lemans wagons with 116' wb might be the best choice. Next would be the 112" wb 2-door Lemans. Then the GP's. I'd say that the Cats and Bonnies with 123" wb would be the worst choices.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2107

Now, here's a question for you guys. The big wagons have a 127" wb and weigh 5000lbs. Is this just too big for Stocker ? Or can it still be competitive because of it's slower index ? Will all that extra weight be harder on parts, causing failures ?

Also, do any of you guys know if the '76 Lemans and Lemans Wagons had the 8.5" rear end ? What about the GP ? Cat's, Bonnies, & Big Wagons ? :confused:

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Now, I think all these '76 Pontiacs except for the Birds had coil spring suspension. The Cal-Trac type set-up seems to be pretty much std equip for today's leaf spring Stocker.

But how about the coil spring cars ? On my '69 GTO, all I did was stiffen the rubber bushings with finishing nails, and run air bags, with more air in the passenger side bag. It worked OK on a mid 12 sec car.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Air-Lift/Air-L...43887/10002/-1

So what is the best legal set up for the coil spring suspension on one of these heavy cars ? If there are any aftermarket parts involved, please list brands and part numbers if you have them. Links to them would be great.

Whether I use a coil spring car or not, there is probably somebody who will read this who can benefit from a detailed description of a good coil spring set-up for a Stocker. Thanks in advance for sharing this info with us. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Variations of these work well... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hal-5213/overview/

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, that's one vote for no hop bars. Is that what most of you coil spring guys are using ?

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Lots of companies that make great suspension components out there for A Bodies. Even though lowers can't be adjustable per the rulebook, adjustable uppers, a good anti roll bar and shock package will allow you to make changes on the car as needed. This is just a couple of examples of companies that make great products.


http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?produ...sion-1968-1972


http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=28

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Just for reference those were used in this '66 Chevelle 396SS. Basicly a street car with minimal mods...5.38 gear, TH350, Moroso front springs, running full street trim at 3800 + pounds. Best I remember was a 7.00 1/8-mile with a 1.50 60'...a real lead sled.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ManCave006.jpg

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

I`m working on the `68 350 HO right now.I got a CP piston approved by NHRA .I think the only thing hurting the motor will be the small intake valve it does have the same cam,carb and intake as the 400 so it can`t be that bad.That being said I still think it needs another 5 or 10 hp off.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, I've seen these "anti roll bars" but I don't know exactly how they work.

(1) Does anybody have a link to a site or sites with pics and explanations and/or installation instructions for these devices ?

(2) Is this what most of the quicker Stockers are running ?

(3) Would these be required on a 4000 lb + car, such as a wagon ? Or will the large amount of weight make these extreme components unnecessary ?

(4) The adjustable uppers that were mentioned. Does that mean that most cars need shorter arms ? or longer ?

(5) Are the different length arms to change pinion angle, or suspension geometry ?

(6) What about the coil spring "slapper' bars ? Are they totally useless for Stockers ? Sorry about my ignorance on this subject. I've just never used any of the above products. :o

http://www.jegs.com/p/Competition-En...37234/10002/-1

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

This site is a good source for answering a lot of your questions.


http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/


Necessary to me would be anything that gives an advantage, but at the same time, I had a 71 Monte Carlo SS 454 back in the early 80's that would run 11.50's with 1.50 sixty foot times with nothing but air shocks on the rear, lol.
'

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Aftermarket adjustable upper arms are legal, but you must use the factory front attachment point (no extra holes). The rear attachment point can be relocated.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

You don't have time to be on here. You have 2 race cars to get finished and submit reports on , lol

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

I worked on the Mustang yesterday...today I am lounging. :D

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

I am enjoying the build updates. Just started a Mustang Stocker Project myself.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Wow ! This blows my preconceived ideas out of the water. That site has some great info.

One of the main things I got from it that might pertain to a heavy coil spring Stocker is that if you are getting 100% traction without a lot of front end rise, then don't loosen up the front or use 90/10 shocks. What you want is to use all your power for propelling the car forward. If front end rise is not needed for traction, then your ET will be better if all your power is moving the car forward.

Also, I read that you want soft springs to help traction. But, this guy says that for a stock suspension coil spring car, you want stiff springs, so that all the weight is used to push the tires into the track. If the springs are soft, then on the initial hit, the body will squat, instead of pushing down on the tires. Makes sense to me.

And the part about the '71 Monte with nothing but air shocks: if I remember correctly, that was a heavy body style, very similar to the '69-'77 Pontiac GP. So, that may be a further indication that all these fancy suspension pieces are not needed for a HEAVY, low buck Stocker. Would probably be a good idea to start with stiffer bushings, stronger springs, air bags and stiff shocks--try that and see how it works, before spending a bunch on parts that may not be needed at all. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

[QUOTE=oldskool;458884]Wow ! This blows my preconceived ideas out of the water. That site has some great info.

One of the main things I got from it that might pertain to a heavy coil spring Stocker is that if you are getting 100% traction without a lot of front end rise, then don't loosen up the front or use 90/10 shocks. What you want is to use all your power for propelling the car forward. If front end rise is not needed for traction, then your ET will be better if all your power is moving the car forward.

Also, I read that you want soft springs to help traction. But, this guy says that for a stock suspension coil spring car, you want stiff springs, so that all the weight is used to push the tires into the track. If the springs are soft, then on the initial hit, the body will squat, instead of pushing down on the tires. Makes sense to me.

And the part about the '71 Monte with nothing but air shocks: if I remember correctly, that was a heavy body style, very similar to the '69-'77 Pontiac GP. So, that may be a further indication that all these fancy suspension pieces are not needed for a HEAVY, low buck Stocker. Would probably be a good idea to start with stiffer bushings, stronger springs, air bags and stiff shocks--try that and see how it works, before spending a bunch on parts that may not be needed at all. :)[/QUOTE


It worked, but think of how much quicker it might have been using todays suspension technology!!

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Hey Adam, I am REAL interested in your 350HO build. Why don't you start a thread on it ???

With the small cubes I don't think the small intake valves will hurt a thing. Hey, them screamin sbc motors only have 2.02 valves. And with the almost unlimited duration available from a Bullet Stocker cam, you'll have all the flow you need.

I'm thinkin you'll need to turn it at least 7000rpm +. So I reckin you'll need some heavy springs and some of those Sherman tool steel lifters like Brent is gonna get. What do you think ? At least 4500 stall ?

I bought a '69 Tempest 350HO ex-Stocker to run bracket with. The dyno sheet said it made 434hp. But it was not tricked out. Just a stock rod, TRW engine. Ran mid 12's. I had a diesel crew cab, a two car gooseneck, and 2 Pontiac powered bracket cars, for the 2010 season. But our local track did not open the entire year. :( Sold the truck, trailer, T-body and the #48 heads.

Hey, don't forget. Start that build thread ! :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

[/QUOTE
It worked, but think of how much quicker it might have been using todays suspension technology!![/QUOTE]


What I got out of what the guy said, that I think might apply to a HEAVY (over 4000lbs) Stocker is that IF you are getting 100% traction without a super loose front suspension and fancy rear suspension pieces, then you will not go any quicker by using these other parts and methods.

I am thinking that one of these HEAVY cars, especially a wagon, will have enuff weight on the rear tires to get max traction with only stiff bushings, springs, shocks and air bags.

But hey, I could be wrong. If so, it won't be the 1st time. :)

The only reason NOT to go with the latest and greatest is $$. If you have the coins to spend, by all means, by the best of everything. But I'm talking about what you can get by with for a very low budget build.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Stall???? He don`t know me very well,do he!

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

No, actually, I don't know anybody on here at all. So by what you said, I assume that you are a die hard stick guy ?

Do you (or any of the stick guys) still win a lot of rounds, even with the bracket racing nature of today's Stocker racing ? :confused:

You said you got a CP piston approved for the 350HO. How long ago was that ? What is the CP part number ? It's not listed on this site yet. They still have only the TRW. Would you please post some pics of these CP pistons ? Do they have floating pins with spiral locks or ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Go to the NHRA site and look under approved products.The number is P5-CP.Got them approved a year and half ago.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, got it--page 60. What did you have to do to get CP to make this piston ?

http://www.nhra.com/userfiles/file/N...edProducts.pdf