National Records
 

Here's another dummy question. And the only reason I'm asking is because I don't know the answer and would like to. :D

I see that at most big races there are cars running under the national record for their class. So my question is: why do they choose not to run for the record ?

I could only think of two possible reasons. Either they don't want to go thru an additional teardown. Or they don't want to call any extra attention to their combo, which might result in a hp refactor.

So can some of you guys clear this up for me ?

Also, I've noticed that some cars are going about 2 sec quicker than the same combo did back in the 70's. Is there any way to look up what the record was for a particular class, say in 1975, and what car held that record ? Or how about a list of when that record was reset, and by what car ? Or is this kind of info just too detailed to keep up with and have available online ?

Re: National Records
 

Some people may have their engine on the ragged edge and afraid they won't pass tech.

Re: National Records
 

Well, that answer brings up another question. If someone is afraid their engine won't pass tech. Then what do they plan to do if they win the race ? Don't all winner's engines get checked at the big races ?

Have you guys known of a lot of big race winners who were DQ'd for an illegal engine ?

If this happens, do they also tear down the RU ? Or is the RU automatically torn down ? :confused:

Re: National Records
 

Seldom Tear Down after a race is completed......everyone wants to go home. Random tear downs after Qualification Runs

No teardowns in our Division (7) unless a record has been set.

Exception to rules is All Stars where all division winners are torn down
prior to the race!

Re: National Records
 

Oldskool,

First off, only the Pro classes are allowed to set a record at National events. As for Divisionals you will likely get Monday HP or at least a trigger for your efforts. Until 2013 the same was true for National Opens but now you can run it out without fear and get the record if you are willing and able. Problem there is that really limits the opportunity to set records as the National Opens aren't always run at the best dates or tracks for optimal performance. In fact, Division 4 doesn't even run National Opens.

Re: National Records
 

Hi,

To answer your question.....

Sportsman National Records cannot be set at National Events.......

The run resetting the record must occur during qualifying, the engine sealed, an R with a circle around it on the racecar during the back-up run (run has to be within 1% of record setting run). Resetting the MPH record can only occur during a resetting of the ET record.

NHRA will inspect car and determine if the Class requirements are met and if so a certificate will be issued.....

Next you get to put your racecar back together to race the Eliminator

That's it......

It seemed like a good idea at the time.....

Back in the day we got extra points for setting records but that was a long time ago.....

We had our car taken apart 7 times in one season because of resetting National Records and Low Qualifier. That was over 10 years ago...

I lot has changed within NHRA, including rewarding performance...

Bob

Re: National Records
 

One other thing I do not think was mentioned yet, is that by attempting records at 1/4 mile National Opens, the racer can set both 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile records at the same time.

If you attempt a record at a division 1/4 mile event, you can only go for the 1/4 records...IIRC.

As posted above: If a racer attempts at a Divisional race there is the risk of getting a h.p. hit the following Monday, so that's one of the reasons why National Opens are more favorable for record setters.

Re: National Records
 

What does setting a National Record pay??? NADA! Not even bonus points! But, you do get to tear down...use $100 + worth of gaskets, $100 + worth of oil/filter and donate about 6hr or so of your time.

Hell, Class Eliminations doesn't pay anymore either!!! In the early 2000s when I started, I use to get around $500-$600 for a Class win.

Pretty much just a glorified Bracket Race now days.

Re: National Records
 

Oldskool,

NHRA always printed class records in National Dragster every week. They started doing that when National Dragster began in the early 60's and continued until recently when they began putting current records online. Find some old National Dragsters and you will find what the records were for each class at the time that issue was printed.

Re: National Records
 

Here is a list of some 1986 Super Stock records. Some familiar names still at it. And amazing how times (as in 1/4-mile elapsed times) change in thirty years.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...53f5db165fa412

And only two records here were 'minimum', as opposed to nowadays.

Re: National Records
 

Nhra use to award points for ET and mph. Records. They need to go back.

Re: National Records
 

I would say that most guys don't want to go through the hassle of tearing down the engine. Cost is high for gaskets and its a lot of work for basically no reward. Some racers don't build their own engines and do not have the mechanical ability to go through the tear down procedure. Most of us have been there and done that and have our certificates hung on the wall. Now we would just rather race and go some rounds.

Re: National Records
 

The last time NHRA published 1/8th mile records in National Dragster was Dec. 2012.

If anyone wants to see what the current 1/8th mile records are, here is the link for Stock:

http://www.nhra.net/stats/stk_rec_e.txt


This is the one for Super Stock:

http://www.nhra.net/stats/ss_rec_e.txt

Re: National Records
 

Old school you get nothing for going as fast as possible but HP .Zero reward,
Very insulting to imply fast people don't show off because the motors not legit l!
Records are too much work for NO REWARD.Now show up in the other lane And I will show you how fast I can go!

Re: National Records
 

I've set records, had to tear down and we were legal. It's not for everyone but its a great feeling to take the record away from someone. Its a sad day when someone beats your record, but its also a day of earned respect to the racer who bested my performance.


For me its worth all the effort !

Re: National Records
 

Hey THANKS guys ! Ya'll have provided a lot of great info.

I'm real surprised at the info in this post. I just assumed that the winner of every national and divisional would be torn down. Does that mean that only record setting cars are even checked at divisional races ? Does that mean that some of the cars could be running too many cubes and it would never even be checked ?

If this is the case, do ya'll think it's because of the bracket racing nature of class racing now ? Or maybe because the payouts are so low ? Or maybe a combination of things ?

The only negative I can see about somebody running an illegal engine is in the case of a same class, heads up run. In that case it wouldn't seem fair to the other guy IF he is running legal.

Having been around some dirt racing, I know how some guys will fudge all they can get by with.

So, nowadays, is it just assumed that most everybody who runs just the divisional races are fudging a little and most don't really care that much ?

Hey, I'm just trying to learn all I can about how things operate in class racing today. And I can't think of a better way to learn than to ask those who do it. So, thanks again guys for sharing all this info ! :)

Re: National Records
 

Those 1986 records are interesting. The SS/KA is a 10.80. In 1977 the guys at H-O Racing Specialties set that class record at 11.31, in a '74 SD455 TA. So it took 9 years to lower the record 1/2 sec. We saw the H-O car run at the '78 Cajun Nationals. They were a long way from home. :)

Re: National Records
 

What rule changes created the vast improvement?
Todays Stockers are running the old SS numbers.
D

Re: National Records
 

I'll take a shot at that one. We ran a '68 Firebird in E/SA back in '75. We had to run factory cast pistons and rods. That limited the rpm. Now they can run forged H-beam rods and Ross pistons.

We had to run the stock type fan that came on that engine. Today I think they can run an electric driven water pump and elec fan.

We ran a much smaller Lunati "Stocker" cam and a 3000 stall Vitar converter. Today, the cam duration they can run is ridiculous. So, with a wild cam, high spring pressures, and a 4000 + 8" converter, they can get a great launch and wind it high.

Then there are the super head shops today who can work their magic, and get much more power from a set of iron heads than was possible in the '70's, and somehow do it where they will pass tech.

They can now run tight clearances and get by with running the super thin oil and low pressure, along with a crank scraper and modified pan. The ring technology is also better today.

We had to run a TH400 like came behind the 400 engine. Today they can run a trick TH350 with light insides and a 2.75 1st gear. OR even a super light TH200 with a lower 1st gear.

And someone said the 9" slicks of today are much better than those from the 70's. So the better tires, together with the Cal-Trac bars and springs, give 'em all the hook they need to leave hard and get lots of air.

So, all these things add up to a 2 sec quicker ET than was possible 40 years ago. And since there were several E/SA '68 Birds running quick last season, they got an 8 HP hit. :( I think that's the 1st one ever. I know it was 330hp back in '75.

This 1 sec + under, #2 qualifier may have influenced the hit. Who knows ? Hey, they may look at all the top qualifiers at the bigger races, especially if they are over a sec under.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r2014#indextop

Hey, I just can't help it ya'll. I love them '68 Birds ! :)

Re: National Records
 

When I set the H/SA record a few years ago, they torn us down during time trials
and just before first round. I had plenty of help or would have not made first round. Everyone knew I wanted to race so they let me get my stuff checked first. If not, I would never made first round. Don't know if its still done that way, but I was there to race along with setting the record.......

Re: National Records
 

There is another way someone can be tore down. The car can be protested.

Re: National Records
 

Very good point Larry. I have talked with some of the record setting racers here in Div. 6 and they said the same thing. It is the self satisfaction of making your combo fast. Being number 1 in qualifying is pretty cool, also.


Hey Larry, when will we see the truck back out?? I love the truck.

Re: National Records
 

The Div. 7 director has a policy of no teardowns by protest in
our division.

Re: National Records
 

Oldskool

Thanks for your interest in our type of racing.
Its very few and far between that a racer gets torn down and something is found to be illegal. if something is found its usually something very minor and would not have helped the car to be faster.
The vast majority of stock and super stock racers have very high ethics and do not intentionally cheat. That is the meaning of "Class Racers" they have class. There are grey areas in the rules that the go fast guys will exploit. This is a widely accepted practice and this is usually where the rule changes get started from. Most of the stock and super stock racers are very protective of their reputation and would not risk that by intentionally cheating. I have never heard of a tear down in recent history where someone was running the wrong size or was claiming the completely wrong engine
Stock and super stock racers accept that there are rules in our classes and try to run as fast as possible within the confines of those rules. That is one of the attraction for the guys/girls that compete in our world.

Re: National Records
 

We've set records multiple times through the years and the have never worried about the cost of the gaskets! In 2014 Jim and I both set records at the Joliet Division 3 race. I was in our Chevy II in F/S and Jim drove Bob and Cherie Gipson's Corvette in A/S. We tore down both cars and had to borrow tools back and forth to get it done! Would I do it again? You bet!

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...psa01c55f9.jpg

Re: National Records
 

So, since at least one division has a policy of "no teardowns by protest", does that mean it's up to the division director whether to allow protest teardowns or not ?

That brings up another question. For the divisions where protest teardowns do take place, are the protests directed at those who are not included among the regular division racers. Or do the regulars normally protest each other, if they think they may be fudging a bit ?

I understand about being protested at your local track, if you are not in good with the group. Our '68 E/SA Bird was protested at our local track, after winning the 1st five races of the season in a row. Not only were we not in good with the locals, but we were racing a Pontiac, and it had a female driver. Both of those things made the local boys mad, especially the Chevy guys.

Anyhow, the engine was legal, so a protest was OK with me. But the tech guys didn't know a thing about a Pontiac engine, so they didn't attempt a teardown. They just put it on the scales. Well, since I hadn't stripped out all the street stuff, I assumed the car was probably overweight by quite a bit. But they claimed it was under by just a few pounds. So, I put a spare tire and jack in the trunk, and it didn't slow down at all, that you could notice. Was still the quickest car at our local track, and won the LA State Championship race there, about mid season. :D But we were definitely not the most popular racers at our local track. :(

Re: National Records
 

Attempting to set records is not for everyone.

There are a few that do enjoy the challenge and are willing to spend a few hours turning wrenches while breaking some sweat.

For me, it's all about seeing if I can succeed at accomplishing a mission.

I was fortunate the first time I set records in that I had an experienced ( and knowledgeable) record setter to help assist me.
That helps.

Re: National Records
 

Mike you nailed it for me. I love racing but I'm not that good at the mechanic side of things. This totally scared me off from class racing plus the cost of traveling in the division. So I became an bracket racer, same driving skill set and I get to race almost weekly. But I still like to keep up with y'all and hope to give it a try again someday.

Re: National Records
 

Can anyone name another sport where performance records expire?
Babe Ruth still holds records he set in 1921.

George Peterson
D/S 4448

Re: National Records
 

George, I personally think it is a very good thing that records expire in the case of class racing. Because when a unfairly factored combination sets a record it could stick for a very very long time, which would be entirely disheartening for people who run legitimate, reasonably and fairly factored combinations..
So let the record expire after a reasonable period of time. In the meantime, hopefully the bogus unfairly factored combination has been properly re-factored. If the person wants to set it the record again, they are of course free to do so.
Or, as is the case recently where a very unfairly factored combination just doesn't get hit, or 'wont' get hit for 'certain' reasons, it gets moved into its own separate classes where it can have fun with other similarly grossly underfactored engines and allow the rest of us with reasonably factored combinations to have a chance.

Re: National Records
 

I don't know about that one Kevin, especially if your the one resetting the record every 2 years. I think mine expires this year again, so tear down again. Now if say that record had been set at real good conditions I could sympathize with you. Like has been said on here before, it would be nice if record setting was rewarded. Since they aren't, let them stand till they are broken. I did think the last one was special, as my son and I set records at the same event. That doesn't happen everyday.

Ernie Neal
SS 354