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-   -   With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bump be (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=54376)

B Parker 08-12-2014 08:29 AM

With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bump be
 
My guess would be .88 under in stock and .78 in super stock. Barry

TOSTO RACING 08-12-2014 10:17 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
1.00 under in stock
.85 under in super stock my guesses

Ed Wright 08-12-2014 10:58 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TOSTO RACING (Post 441289)
1.00 under in stock
.85 under in super stock my guesses

That's what I'm thinking. Mine has slowed down. Thought I found why. Sat in the trailer for two weeks to get a chance to test here to find out. Still slow. Not sure I could even make the show like it is. Don't believe .79 under in 4000' air it went Sunday afternoon is going to get there. Not sure I'm up to taking it apart, having it honed and putting it back together one more time.

TOSTO RACING 08-12-2014 11:12 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
It's gonna be tough to get in I'd say . Hope you figure out what's going on Ed good luck!

KThomas 08-12-2014 11:15 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
.82 under in Stock & .74 under in Super Stock

442OLDS 08-12-2014 12:05 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
I'll go with .93 under in Stock. ( a few alternates get in)

In Super Stock,usually there are a bunch of bye runs in the first round,so that really can't be called a bump. (no alternates show up)

Carguy49 08-12-2014 12:24 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KThomas (Post 441294)
.82 under in Stock & .74 under in Super Stock

I think you are close Kelly. My guess is .85 in Stock and .75 in Super Stock.

Good to get a chance to talk with you and Dawn at the combo race Saturday.

Mike Carr 08-12-2014 01:00 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Last year, Stock was, I believe, -.789, before DQ's in teardown and broken cars. This was with 170-175 cars showing up. Many big names were DNQ.

S/S, 140-some showed up, everyone got to race first round and there were still bye runs (all but three or so SS/AH cars left after the shootout). This year there should be some who still won't get to race.

Nitro Joe Jackson 08-12-2014 01:04 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
-78 in SS and -89 Stock
So if you entered the big dance with a -50 or -60 player, enjoy your 3 or 4 runs (if you get lucky enough in rd 1 of class) and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Nick Heath 08-12-2014 01:21 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Last year, there were:
- 171 Stockers and the bump was -0.773. If you assume that all of the additional 29 cars are all fast enough to make the show, then that puts the bump right at about where #100 was last year (-0.834).
- 146 Super Stockers and the bump was -0.590. Again, assuming the additional 54 cars are all fast enough to make the show, that puts the bump spot at about where #74 was last year (-0.786).

So, I'm thinking it'll take about -0.85 in Stock and -0.80 in SS, unless of course we get a wave of mineshaft air on Thursday or Friday morning!

Ed Wright 08-12-2014 02:42 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro Joe Jackson (Post 441311)
-78 in SS and -89 Stock
So if you entered the big dance with a -50 or -60 player, enjoy your 3 or 4 runs (if you get lucky enough in rd 1 of class) and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

I can't imagine someone with a -50 or -60 car even entering. Lots of money to get your feelings hurt.

denbreeden 08-12-2014 03:17 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
You may be right Ed, I should probably go ahead and withdraw.

Dennis Breeden

Bob Mulry 08-12-2014 03:34 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
So the great minds took out Class Winners........

Old Days = .60 under, win class, get Wally and race at the Big Go........

Today = Welcome to the Factory Stock Nationals.............

It just makes me shake my head...

Bob

bob3240 08-12-2014 04:35 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Bob Mulry, when willl the awesome Firebird be unleashed? I'm thinking -.88 in Stock an -.8 in SS. Bob Michael.

Jeff Teuton 08-12-2014 05:06 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
I will go with Thomas. I don't think the new cars is what took out all class winners. Course I have been wrong once. It was 1958 I think. If you can afford the time to go and it doesn't bust the budget, there is only one Indy. Qualify or not; enter or not; only Indy.

Ed Wright 08-12-2014 05:47 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denbreeden (Post 441329)
You may be right Ed, I should probably go ahead and withdraw.

Dennis Breeden

Yeah, right!! LOL!

denbreeden 08-12-2014 05:55 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
I wondered when you were going to respond Ed, lol.

Kevin McKenna 08-12-2014 07:05 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Mulry (Post 441332)
So the great minds took out Class Winners........

Old Days = .60 under, win class, get Wally and race at the Big Go........

Today = Welcome to the Factory Stock Nationals.............

It just makes me shake my head...

Bob

Old Days = .75 under, LOSE class, no Wally and then watch some guy with a FWD car that flat-towed it to the track and can barely run the index take your spot because he got a single for the class win.

What's a better system? I suppose that is for each individual to decide. I'm sure some like it and some don't. Personally, I'm looking forward to the battles to see who the quickest 128 are.

I've also got great admiration for anyone who is going to Indy and knows they have very little chance of qualifying. THAT is why Indy still matters.

Bob Mulry 08-12-2014 07:16 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Bob,

We went in 1985 and 2004.......

Next year I will 71 and retired....

So as it stands now we plan on being at INDY 2015.....

Bob

Mark Yacavone 08-12-2014 08:07 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna (Post 441344)
Old Days = .75 under, LOSE class, no Wally and then watch some guy with a FWD car that flat-towed it to the track and can barely run the index take your spot because he got a single for the class win.

What's a better system? I suppose that is for each individual to decide. I'm sure some like it and some don't. Personally, I'm looking forward to the battles to see who the quickest 128 are.

I've also got great admiration for anyone who is going to Indy and knows they have very little chance of qualifying. THAT is why Indy still matters.

Kevin, It wouldn't be HIS spot, the way Indy was run for what, 55 years?
The FWD classes were created by NHRA too, you realize.
Flat towing not acceptable @ INDY?
I'm not likin' the tone here, buddy...

Bill Koski 08-12-2014 09:03 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
I went the whole enchilada. I couldn't run the index and won class a couple of years and missed the ladder, then ran the index and won class, then ran .500 under and won class and then when YEARS of tradition were trashed because of the never ending whining I will admit now that I cheated to run fast enough to qualify for the ladder!
So I suppose the 129th qualifier in '08 and '09 has a bitch coming!

MikeFicacci 08-13-2014 09:33 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Depends on the air. Last year the air was pretty ugly and the bump .78. I think its going to take close to .90-under in Stock with 200 cars entered.

Bryan Worner 08-13-2014 11:50 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
I say .693 under gets you in SS.

Kevin McKenna 08-13-2014 12:59 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 441351)
Kevin, It wouldn't be HIS spot, the way Indy was run for what, 55 years?
The FWD classes were created by NHRA too, you realize.
Flat towing not acceptable @ INDY?
I'm not likin' the tone here, buddy...

No malice intended. Personally have nothing against FWD cars (or tow bars for that matter). Merely pointing out something that Bob Frey used to say, "one man's ceiling is another man's floor"

I do, however, remember the year my father-in-law's car "qualified" about 125th but didn't get to race after the bump-ins (mostly single car class winners) were added. Needless to say he was quite frustrated.

I don't get a vote but if I did, my preference would be that the quickest 128 cars qualify.

Mike Carr 08-13-2014 01:16 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna (Post 441413)
No malice intended. Personally have nothing against FWD cars (or tow bars for that matter). Merely pointing out something that Bob Frey used to say, "one man's ceiling is another man's floor"

I do, however, remember the year my father-in-law's car "qualified" about 125th but didn't get to race after the bump-ins (mostly single car class winners) were added. Needless to say he was quite frustrated.

I don't get a vote but if I did, my preference would be that the quickest 128 cars qualify.

Class winners don't "bump-in". They WERE in. NHRA even worded it that way in the payout section for Nat'l events: "128 car field max (Class winners + low ET qualifiers)". Class winners are IN; the field was filled with the quickest cars (against Index) that did not win Class.

Your father-in-law didn't get ''bumped'' by a Class Winner. He got bumped by a quicker, non-Class winning car.

Mark Yacavone 08-13-2014 01:31 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna (Post 441413)
No malice intended. Personally have nothing against FWD cars (or tow bars for that matter). Merely pointing out something that Bob Frey used to say, "one man's ceiling is another man's floor"

I do, however, remember the year my father-in-law's car "qualified" about 125th but didn't get to race after the bump-ins (mostly single car class winners) were added. Needless to say he was quite frustrated.

I don't get a vote but if I did, my preference would be that the quickest 128 cars qualify.

Kevin ,This could be debated for a week here. Just like politics, you won't change anyone's mind either.

Little background here:

First thing happened, Class win cash and goodies declined significantly since the 70's.

2, A new generation of racers , raised on bracket racing, decided the Eliminator was where the money was at. They figured out it was easier to win with the faster car.
2A, Another sub- group decided that, if they were going to spend all that money for travel and entries, they might as well have a 10 second car and do big wheelies, and try to emulate the consistent winners' come from behind strategy.

3 , Now the low 11 and10 second cars held a majority, but a bunch of them couldn't get in the eliminator at Indy.
They asked for a rule change that tossed out a 50 + year tradition ...and they got it.

So,
Does NHRA ever have a long range vision on this stuff , or do they just sit by and watch it happen and just wing it, after the fact?
Maybe you could tell us. Glad to have you here.

Kevin McKenna 08-13-2014 02:03 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Mike Carr,

You are simply arguing semantics here. The fact is that under the previous system a .70-under car went home while a .50-under car raced. I'm sure some people are fine with that and others aren't.

Mark,

You are 100% correct when you say this could be debated endlessly with zero progress made. Personally, I'd like to think I've been around long enough to have respect for longstanding traditions such as Indy class, but I also like to think I'm progressive enough to understand that sometimes change is inevitable.

I can't tell you if the decision to abandon the "win class and you're in" rule was the right one but with 402 SS and STK cars currently entered for Indy I don't think you could say that it was a mistake either.

Finally, I'll address your comments about NHRA's long range vision. As you know, I write for National Dragster. I don't work in the Tech Dept. and I don't make policy and I'm quite happy about that. I suppose this would also be a good place to file the standard disclaimer that states that any opinion expressed here is solely my own.

Personally, I'm counting the days 'till Wednesday's first session at Indy and I'm not sure if I've felt that way for a few years.

Kevin

Ed Wright 08-13-2014 03:02 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
If it was too wrong in most people's view, I doubt there would be so many entires. Agree?

Gary Parker 08-13-2014 04:43 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
If you count the 08 and 09 challengers, I can up with 65 or so new cars. Mustangs, Camaro's, and Challengers. I would think most could qualify, that leaves 63 spots for 135 or so cars... So 89 under in stock and 83 under in super stock. I also counted 24 or so hemi cars. That should be a blast to watch.

Mark Yacavone 08-13-2014 05:25 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 441430)
If it was too wrong in most people's view, I doubt there would be so many entires. Agree?

Ed, I don't think the participant numbers in general have changed a lot since the 70's..just the demographics have..

Also I think tradition is very underrated in this case .

After all, where are all the .90 cars?
**
I better get on the board here: .90 under in Stock

Ed Wright 08-13-2014 05:49 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 441446)
Ed, I don't think the participant numbers in general have changed a lot since the 70's..just the demographics have..

Also I think tradition is very underrated in this case .

After all, where are all the .90 cars?
**
I better get on the board here: .90 under in Stock

Mark, your telling me you would really miss the .90 cars? LOL

First time I came to Indy, C/MP had 50 entrants. I don't know how many cars total. I was in my mid-twenties, seemed like about everybody else was as well. Now we are mostly wire haired (or no haired) old coots.

I think -.85 to -.90 for SS is very likely. I think it would take some nasty weather for that not to happen.

Mark Yacavone 08-13-2014 06:01 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 441449)
Mark, your telling me you would really miss the .90 cars? LOL

No, not at all...It's just that around here, they're swarming the Divisionals

Why not The 60th Nationals?

Ed Wright 08-13-2014 08:16 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
We have them running out of our ears at points races around here too. Indy would just be another bracket (sorry, index) race to them. No history to them, I guess.

MR DERBY CITY 08-14-2014 01:22 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Attention Bill Koski.....Say it ain't,t so..Lol.....Evidently , at a young age no one ever told you to.....Don,t kiss and tell....and ...at your advanced age.....What happens at Indy....Stays at Indy...LOL. !!!!! M.J.

Ronald Urquhart 08-14-2014 11:33 AM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
What would ya do if INDY was still 96 cars?

Bob Mulry 08-14-2014 02:03 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin McKenna (Post 441344)
Old Days = .75 under, LOSE class, no Wally and then watch some guy with a FWD car that flat-towed it to the track and can barely run the index take your spot because he got a single for the class win.

What's a better system? I suppose that is for each individual to decide. I'm sure some like it and some don't. Personally, I'm looking forward to the battles to see who the quickest 128 are.

I've also got great admiration for anyone who is going to Indy and knows they have very little chance of qualifying. THAT is why Indy still matters.

The way I see it, is that if you ran 1.10 under and lost in class you still had a shot at the eliminator......

.75 under still would have made the eliminator in some years.....

You had 2 shots at making the field for the eliminator and it didn't work out for you..

In 2004, the last year that we raced at INDY the bump in Stock was .986 under. F/S had a couple of cars in class and the slower car won class, should he have been not allowed to race????????

As usual NHRA does what they believe is best for NHRA and not what's best for the racers.

This is the reason for .75 under and no place to race.....

Bob

PS:
This is one race a year.
They could have kept it special.

TinSoldier 3215 08-17-2014 03:24 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
-85 in stock and -80 in superstock

B Parker 08-17-2014 03:56 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
Looking at the list of entries and knowing Thursday morning can be quick for Indy. I wouldn't be surprised to see it close to 1 under. Take a look at the cars entered. How many can you point out that on kill won't be able to go close to a second under Thursday morning? Barry

Dyno 08-17-2014 05:32 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
What day does the "field" open for parking, Sunday or Monday morning?

Jack McCarthy 08-18-2014 02:45 PM

Re: With 200 in both stock and super stock what will the bum
 
most of you know the history... Wally designed each eliminator and qualifying process so that EVERY CLASS was represented in the eliminator...
the dirt was not even tamped down on his grave before the BIG BUCK guys whined thier way into the 128 fastest (cause they got more money thats thier advantage)...

now we get to see the fruits of thier rule change...
128 copo's / cobra jets and drag paks...and all the other guys are getting screwed... oh wait NHRA is allowing 20 more donaters to come and not qualify.

of course there will be a few oddballs get in, a defactored ford or two, a turbo or two, an occasional pickup and an old beat up 60 wagon > but for the most part the millionaires got what they wanted.

see ya at indy...
oh by the way Roy Dean will be piloting the landbarge.

captain jack


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