Illinois towing issues?
 

Just wondering about traveling in the blue state for a race? Here is what I have heard:

*No decals
*No fuel in fuel cell
*Weight below DOT maximum
*Break away mechanism functional.
*length (uggggg) (federal DOT says nothing about length)

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Been numerous times, day, night, north, south, east and west. Speed limit for "big rigs" is 55, not 60, not 65, not 70. It seems speed limit signs for big rigs are only posted every 30-40 miles.

Never had a problem. Just my experience. Next time may be different.

Question, is a speeding ticket more expensive than an over length fine...? Does the OL fine carry over to higher INS for the requisite time like a speeding ticket?

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

DOT limit on fuel is 1000 lbs. Don't need placards or other notices. A drum of fuel weights about 400 lbs. Length is state. If your rig it titled in any company name or venture (Super Fast Racing), you are DOT. Personal name, DOT manual 390.3 and get a copy (they are cheap), most motor home plates have no weight and are just a token tag much like a trailer. Most police officers know less about this regulation than you do. Hope this helps. Manual available from LabelMaster, Chicago and the number I have is 1-800-621-5308 Federal Motor Carier Regulations. Probably got a web site too. Just found LabelMaster, what you want is the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, Management Edition. They are about $13 hard bound or $15 spiral plus shipping. Pretty good tool to have, and 390.3 is the section about race car (and boat and horses etc ) exemption.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Is the exemption for race cars #3 below or #4 below "sick persons"?

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—
(1) All school bus operations as defined in §390.5, except for the provisions of §§391.15(e) and (f), 392.80, and 392.82 of this chapter.
(2) Transportation performed by the Federal government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State, or an agency established under a compact between States that has been approved by the Congress of the United States;
(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;
(4) The transportation of human corpses or sick and injured persons;

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Sounds like you can carry dead bodies (commonplace in Chicago i've heard) but having stickers on a car inside a trailer is naughty.

I think this is the part the federales like to pounce on.... "not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise"
They just have a very warped view of what commerce is.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Your number 3 is the 390.3.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Jeff...is the wording 'not for compensation' in section 390.3 the grey area that law enforcement can exploit with racers? Is there a specific definition in the section that defines what 'not for compensation' means?

(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise

I used to work with US and state agencies and found they would like to take advantage of regulation wording like this.

Don

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

I believe this is what Mr Jeff is talking about:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations...390.3?guidance

Look at question 21

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

If the rig is in your name, then you have exercised your right to use 390.3. There is no requirement to have your tax return. A great answer is "if I get a 1099 on any racing proceeds, I file it on my personal return as 'other income' ". I don't know how many of you were in Indy last year where the Indiana people put on a nice informative meeting, they were really surprised when I told them both my motor homes were titled and operated in my name along with the trailers. They asked why, and my answer was and still is, I pay tax people to tell me what to do with things like this vs. the risk involved. They provided a page with 390.3 on it. On length, they actual enforcement guy (a real street guy) when asked how many tickets had they issued for motorsports vehicles, his reply was 'none'. Sorta said it all. Indiana has no lenght for Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMV), but it was not eliminated for private vehicles, but they aren't going to issue any. The great thing about 390.3 is it specifically says money is allowed. Most of the time these officers are taught 'do you earn money for this'. They have never seen the manual, but just an honorable mention of this for private carriers is some class they took. I hope NHRA does this again. I found it very informative. Always insisit 'this is not a CMV'. Don't back up on that. Big decals on the side don't really help. And the couple I heard of about decals on the race car, a good answer is 'would that matter if the trailer were empty'. Gray areas is what you want because they don't want to go there. Remember their job is enforcing the regs on CMV's and that is what they should do. Anyone in that business takes care of the issues connected with CMV's. I would get a manual. For 15 bucks, you got something they don't.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Jeff...thanks for all your work and efforts to help educate the racer on this subject. It would certainly screw-up a fun weekend of racing to get confronted with this and not be ready for it, no matter what state your in.

Don

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Jeff,
I have a question for you regarding this especially because you sell Mopars.
I recently bought a new 1 ton Ram Diesel. The Registration says it has a Scale weight just a little over 8,000 pounds and a gross weight of 14,000. When it was registered here in Washington they put Commercial as the use code. I asked the licensing agent about this and they said they had to put that down because of the gross weight. Never faced this issue before my Ford was quite a bit lighter.
So it’s a personally registered vehicle but use code says commercial (even though it’s not) so wouldn’t that fuel the fire if I was pulled over?

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

States vary. DOT starts @ 10000 lbs and applies to commercial vehicles and that is federal. If you get stopped and scaled, you actual weight determines any infractions. Down here we select the GVW we want within reason related to the GVW of the truck. Your state might not have a non commercial plate for the 14k GVW. I can inquire to a few friends that handle plates for companies, but we are a little far from you. One thing it could be and we have it here; the state will charge you more for that tag. I would send a letter to your state DMV asking the questions. Can't hurt. Hope this might help.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

It must be nice for these police officers having time to enforce traffic laws. I'll bet every day hundreds of kilos of cocaine are transported in their area everyday. In New Orleans, we would have to step over dead bodies to write tickets. Never had time to do anything but criminal investigations.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

My wife and I went to the meeting last year. The state police and Indiana sent two representatives who were basically clueless. There is no federal length on motor homes operating, like Jeff says it is all state. This questions at least for me the state to make such a law as they all site the Federal Statutes. I will be ordering the book to carry.

My wife says the interstate commerce clause does not just apply to businesses. Its intent is to enable business between states and not curtail It prevents states from attaching sales tax to out of state purchases, for example. They are trying to come up with every Machiavellian way to gain sales tax on purchases in that regard. It reads pretty well. I believe it allows free commerce including us going to a race in my opinion. It is a bit of an esoteric assumption, but along with all the others....I am just adding up my legal position of I ever have to go to court.

Thanks for all the input.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Thanks Jeff,

Your knowledge and advice are much appreciated!

From what you and others have written in the past this is probably the result of the Washington state DOL being screwed up like the rest of them. It makes no sense to me that a regular pick up truck must have a commercial use code. they said it was because of how heavy it is....well what about motorhomes??? I guess I need to ask a few locals what's on their registration.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Most motorhomes have a token tag; basically a fee for the tag and it is an RV or some kind (as opposed to an RV Trailer TAg). I think NY has some kind of split system on motor home weights, but then again...... I don't know of any other state that has a system that is not a token, not to be confused with a different price depending on the selling price or value of the motor home, but there is no weight like a commercial truck tag. Always remember the gray area. Get in the gray area.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

One of the Nostalgia Super Stock Guys got busted by the IL State Troopers, on the way to the NMCA race at Gateway, Memorial Day weekend.

Gray haired, grandpa, Fred Radier was towing a 24', non-stickered, enclosed trailer (under 10K GVW), with his 2500 Dodge Ram.

Trooper pulled him over asked what he had in the trailer. Fred responded, a race car. Trooper looked at the car and said because the car had stickers on it (contingency decals?), he was racing for money, and that made him commercial. Trooper said he had to have CDL lisc., log book, DOT physical, DOT number, etc. Fred's car is a 12 second car, that doesn't even have a name on the side!

After some arguing and a call to Doug Duel, trooper let Fred go after taking down his info.

A week later, Fred got a ticket in the mail, addressed to "Fred Radier Racing". $750.00 fine for no DOT numbers on his "rig".... and if it wasn't paid promptly, it would be $1,000.00.

This isn't some second-hand, internet story. It happened this year to one of our friends we race with at NMCA.

I haven't heard the outcome, but apparently, the IL Troopers have declared war on Drag Racers, especially the very dangerous ones with gray hair, from out of state. I guess they figure we will just pay the fine, instead of coming back for a court date. More of the discussion here: http://www.nssracing.com/forums/show...vs-Drag-Racers

New way to increase state revenue (collect taxes).

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Last one I had like that, I had the guy plead not guilty in North Carolina. We were going to a hearing along with witnesses and all the above. It got to be principle. At the end, they dropped the fine from $1400 to $22 for 2000 lbs overweight on one axle and went away. Sometime you gotta fight. Sometime you gotta appeal.

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

I hear you Jeff. I hope Fred went back to fight it.

My local Postmaster General said, mailing it to Fred Radier Racing, was falsifying official records. He advised to make copies, seal it back up, return to sender (return receipt requested) and state "NO SUCH ENTITY AT THIS ADDRESS".

Thanks for all your valuable info.

I think this is just Chicago Politics......Doing what they do best....

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Thanks for all the info. I had just about given up on racing there. I will be sure to have a copy of 390.3 with me the next time I head up that way. It seems there are lots of NSS races up that way and I had all but scratched them from my list.

-Dave

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Just bought a new toter home What should I put on truck as far as info .For example Not For Hire Regestered RV ???

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

None of the wording on the vehicle as such has any bearing on the requirements for a CDL. Just using up vinyl.
Dan

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Can anyone shine any light on when you are required to have a trailer/ tow vehicle inspection, in Illinois? How about some clarification on trailer/truck plates (ie. TB TC TD)
I just thought you give your title information to the DMV people and they issue you the correct plates, but I'm told mine are wrong...... HELP!

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Great information big guy!

No wonder we have been friends such a long time!

Hope is all well...

Me & Merc

Re: Illinois towing issues?
 

Is a diesel dually/gooseneck living quarters set up more likely to attract problems than a motorhome/tag combo?

Other than length, what kind of laws/regs are individual states able to or likely to have in place that could effect those out of state rigs? Can they trump federal regs or just be in addition to them? Is it becoming a necessity to know the legal details in each state that one may be driving through?