Steel rod life expectancy
 

Anyone using steel rods to 9000 RPM (give or take) with 300 plus runs?
I lost a rod this weekend, ( Howards aluminum ) although the damage was basically just the block , 1 piston..........., Now I'll put a spare block into service and consider steel rods..............but , I'm not about to spend 3-4 grand on a set of Carillos.........no way. I'll go back to aluminum , possibly. I think any rod manufacturer that tells you their aluminum rods will see 300 runs in a combo like mine is full of shee-ot.
My fault / stupidity for running them past the 80 -100 runs ..........I should have chucked them a month ago........I'm a slow learner.........:D But my best guess is I didnt have more than 125 runs on those rods.

Small Chevy , 14.0 comp 6.150 rod.........so you can do the math , the piston isn't heavy.........

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Whomever said you could run an aluminum rod for that many runs was full of it. Fatigue and detonation are the worst enemies of an Aluminum connecting rod.

If you select the right brand and material of steel connecting rod, it will go that many runs down the track. One of the biggest factors in longevity is to select the correct rod bolt. My preference is also an "I" beam over the "H" beam style of rod. The steel rod will also allow you to run a tighter deck since they don't stretch like Aluminum rods do. Pro Stock and many Comp guys are currently running steel rods successfully.

Some of the companies I would recommend are Carrillo, Crower, R&R and Oliver. I good set of steel rods from these vendors will not cost you $3000.00 to $4000.00.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Not bashing...just repeating the comment the guy shared with me..........nice sales tactic indeed.........but we know better don't we...:rolleyes:
It was either MGP , GRP or R&R.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

You can buy a used set of Carrillo or Lentz rods from a cup team for next to nothing (couple hundred bucks).

I had a set of used super speedway Carrillo's in a 9200 RPM 358 and put countless passes on them with ZERO problems. I even dropped a valve, and the rod didn't miss a beat. I sold them to a friend of mine who still uses them in a bracket motor.

I moved over to Manley aluminum rods and broke one after 18 passes. I have GRP rods in a new motor, but am thinking about going back to a steel rod or moving up to a titanium rod, because aluminum rods seem to be ticking time bombs (much more so than a good steel rod).

A lot of guys use aluminum rods, and don't mind the maintenance. I'd rather have an engine that can suffer some "miscalculations" and requires fewer teardowns.

Just my .02.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

You can purchase a set of Crower Billet Rods Maxilight #5 (800+ HP) or Maxilight #6 (1,000+ HP) steel billet rods with the Honda rod journal and custom length size for less than $1600.00 and it includes free shipping.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

The used speedway stuff , that would be hit or miss.........still make me nervous after all that abuse. Not only that....I wouldnt have a clue as to who to call.

I'll look at the Crower stuff and call.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Aluminum is a terrible material for fatigue resistance. Horrible.

A quality steel rod (not made in China) will last essentially a lifetime if kept within its design range. Not so with aluminum no matter what the alloy, or QA/QC. Its just the nature of the materials inherent poor fatigue resistance qualities.


Oliver and Manley offer very reasonably priced 100% USA material, USA forging, and USA machined rods... right around $1200 a set.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

I would not put more than 50 passes on an aluminum rod myself. Been there.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

The only Manley connecting rod that is made in the USA is the Pro Beam. All the others are off shore blanks machined in the USA.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

[QUOTE=Kevin Panzino;435057]Aluminum is a terrible material for fatigue resistance. Horrible.

A quality steel rod (not made in China) will last essentially a lifetime if kept within its design range.



I have had really great luck with good ole' GM hi-perf 7/16" LS7 / L88 big block con rods. I have been told the "steel was better back in the late 1960's early 1970's." The old "pink" rods for small block were good pieces also.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

That would be news to me and would result in an extremely irate phone call to both manley and patterson racing tomorrow morning....

Are you saying the Manley TourLite series which they specifically tout as 100% USA made, are in fact offshore forgings?

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Kevin, the only connecting rod I know is 100% USA is the Pro Beam Billet.

Manley exports crankshafts, piston pins, retainers and connecting rods from China.
Their Titanium valves from Israel and the other valves from India.

Just take a look at the following Bill of Lading as examples:

http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/s...tshanycd10470/

http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/r...chydnyk000163/

http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/s...iawofy1311035/

http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/s...lae3116141nyc/

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

In a situation like mine , where you lose an aluminum rod..........was it a bearing / oiling failure that caused the rod to fail...........or the rod getting kicked out of shape that made it "appear" to be a bearing failure? Hard to say.........the crank has bearing metal transfer that was obviously hot...........but why? Which came first ? Is the oil system adequate ?
Rods probably have 120ish runs on them.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

With that many runs, material fatigue.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Give me a call I work at Oliver Racing Parts I'll work with you. We've had customers call that had 10 years on set of rods in 2,500 HP blower motor. Oliver is the only company that every part of the production process is done in the USA to be exact everything is done in Michigan.
231-237-4515

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Will do. I'll call this afternoon.........
Thanks :)

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Oliver makes one of the best steel rods I have seen.
Some of the Ford off road racing trucks have used their rods for 3 seasons without failure.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

I don't think they are going to be able to give me a 6.150 rod......and I'm not into buying new pistons.......but , I'll see what he has to say.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

We can make you a 6.150 rod with no problems. If the big end and small end are all standard sizes it will not take much for us to get you taken care of. Custom rods generally take about 6-8 weeks to complete once ordered, but lately we have been able to finish them in 4 weeks.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

OK , cool.........
I'll call

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

That's an interesting site. I used it to check who is importing nitromethane. (http://portexaminer.com/search.php?s...t=nitromethane) Schumacher Electric & VP Racing Fuels are there, but also a lot of names I don't recognize.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Yep. If you do a search, you would probably remember many years ago the war between Schumacher, NHRA and VP Fuels. As I remember, Schumacher was buying Nitromethane from China and selling it to other racers at a lower price than VP and probably also hurting the profits.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

At the end of the day isn't this all a question of quality control? If the parts get back from China with same material quality and saves the consumer some cash, is that not a good thing? I know a lot of crap comes back here from over seas due to lack of quality control but if manley is ensuring it meets their particular quality standards, I don't see an issue.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Ariel,
They only way a company can do so by creating a standard or specification for their products and having contract first article inspection oversight on location at the foundry or manufacturing facility.

Do a search on this forum on recent complaints as regards to the inconsistencies of their retainers.

Nevertheless, the Israeli company that makes the Titanium valves for Manley, is a reputable company that makes aerospace components.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Third party audit/inspection and quality control companies are now a huge industry in China. You can get just about any ISO or ASTM test you want done there now. You can have tests done during and post production……whatever you want and even more commonly inspection of container loading to make sure you don’t get ripped off. Even Chinese companies use these services themselves now to make sure their sub-contractors don’t rip them off. There is a full spectrum of manufacturing there from absolute top level quality manufacturing to companies that can’t make anything but garbage. If you have something from China that junk it’s probably because the number one criteria of the guy selling it to you was getting it at the lowest possible price.
Interesting thing going on there now especially in Guangdong Province is that lots of big corporations are now moving out to places like Vietnam because they can make things even cheaper.

So based on you comments about quality and consistency they are probably less concerned about the quality than they are the price.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Good explanation and I agree; just tried to give the Cliff note's version.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Cut open the oil filter, it will give a better picture on what happened first. Had the same thing happen recently, and the filter was loaded with brass indicating a bearing failure.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Good point. In aluminum rod combos where the rod has plenty of cycles you would tend to think its a rod failure , BUT , a bearing failure is certainly a possibility......... with the rod getting kicked / stretched out of shape that in itself may have caused the bearing failure.......chicken or egg?:confused:

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Every aluminum rod failure I had pulled into in the middle. Big eng spun freely on the crank, with a good bearing inside. All big end failures I have seen were bearing failures. If it's black, it sure wasn't the rod.
When you set your bearing clearances, think about the expansion rates.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

This rod had a clean break right in the middle of the beam...........but the bearing was also blackened and destroyed........along with the rest of the big end in the pan..............the pin end was perfect:confused:

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

That break was caused by the spun bearing.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Well , in the end , I blame myself for be stupid enough to A) continue to run it when I KNEW the rods had been in there for a while and B ) being too lazy to tear it down over the winter where I may have seen a problem.....but , like I said I'm a slow learner:mad:

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Bearings don't usually fail by themselves. The connecting rod dimensions change or oil supply changes.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Or clearances were wrong to begin with.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Not in this case. I'm a machinist for a major airline for 26 years.........and years prior to that. I have and have access to , every conceivable bore gauge and mic's anyone would need.
I assemble and check them........no chance in hell they were wrong.
Generally .0025-.003 at the vertical. Or whatever the rod manufacturer suggests.
I just ran it too long without an exam or freshening.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

I suspect this was the case.............:confused:

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

SBC? Why so much clearance? You do know that aluminium rod will expand much faster than the steel crank, right? Imagine how loose they are at operating temps. I don't run my steel rods that loose.

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Mine was instigated by detonation

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Well , I don't know what to tell ya........engine builders a lot smarter than me have run em that way for years........if I ran em tighter and it failed I'd be blaming it on that.........

Re: Steel rod life expectancy
 

Yep. Hammering the bearings causes the ends to pull in & squeegee oil off the crank. Too much clearance often has the same effect, just takes longer.