I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I've been lurking for a bit,and just got the nerve to join and start posting!
I've been hooked on the Stocker Class for a few months now.After walking around Z Max this weekend and watching them ,I'm hooked.
A bit about myself before I get smashed, cause I usually go on YB!!I bracket raced for a bit in the 90s and got out of it.I own. 1972 Chevelle ,back halved with a 565 in it.Due to family life and my career I put it on hold.I just retired and we moved down here last October from L.I. NY.Another reason that I stayed away from racing is the haul to any track took for ever.Im just finishing up a shop at my house.My plan is to finish my car and sell it.As per wife I can only have
one race car !! I don't blame her.
I was leaning towards a mid 12 sec class,J/S or K/S class to start out with.I met some cool/ super smart guys with some great info at the track.I am not gonna build a car from scratch.I most likely will purchase someone's unfinished project I worked in a restoration shop for about 15 years so I know a few things.
I'm leaning towards Nova's 66-70 right now with a small block.
Like I said I'm new to this so don't bash me.Sorry for the long winded story.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I just want to wish you good luck and to enjoy your retirement with your new project. Did you consider using your 72 Chevelle, just weld in a back floor and voila you're back in business. Big Block with a 4 speed would be nice. Have fun and don't be afraid to ask for help, there is quite of bit of experience on this forum and a lot of qualified racer to aim you in the right direction. Claude Ruel

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Thank you appreciate it ! We love it down here !
It's way to far gone!
My bad/ stupidity took over as usual!
It's all fiberglass but the quarters,I had the itch to go 8.50 racing which is a class that they ran up at E-Town is when this brilliant idea to cut it up came to me .
I want to start doing the research before I pull the trigger on it.
The guys I spoke to were real down to earth,cars were immaculate ! They also said to go on this site,lots of good guys and help.
I will be asking questions soon !

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I suggest you buy rather than build. Yes, the 66-67 Chevy II and the 68-72 Nova have good small block combinations. There are a couple of nice cars for sale. Not cheap, mind you, but priced fair, and already fairly well dialed in.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Welcome to north Carolina first of all. As Allan suggested I would buy one already set up. I guess I am not the best one to give this advice since I went the other direction but you might notice I wasn't on the q sheet at Charlotte. I am 10 months deep in mine and still a few months away. There is some satisfaction to doing your own car though, good luck either way.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Another vote for buying one. If you can swing it there are always competitive, well-built, nice cars in the $25K range that couldn't be built for close to that. Of course, as a lot of us do, it's financially easier to pay as you go and build a little here and there over time.

Either way good luck. Before Dan jumps in here IHRA Pure Stock is a nice entry level platform and you could get your feet wet since you're in IHRA country there. Plenty of close races for you. And when you had the funds you could go NHRA racing too.

Keep us updated. You won't find a nicer group of men to women to hang out with.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Alan has a good suggestion. You may think that you can build cheaper than buy. That would be wrong. You don't know what you don't know. By the time you build a stocker and make all the mistakes your bound to make and by the time you finally get the stocker just "right" you will realize that it would have been cheaper, easier and quicker to just buy a ready built car. Chose one from a established racer so you can know it was built and sorted right. Chose a car that can win a headsup race and qualify in the top half of the field. Trust me it's no fun to get out run heads up or be in the bottom of the field. Come on in. You'll meet some of the greatest people in the world and have so much fun you'll never regret your decsion.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Contact Rowe Racing in Brigeton, N.C. They will steer you in the right direction, can't find better people to deal with. They might have or know of a good car.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

questions to ask yourself when Choosing a combo. Keep in mind what is most important to you, Do you want to go to the races and have fun and maybe win a round or two? Do you want to Win class? Do you want to win rounds in eliminations? The reason I say this is to influence your building/buying decision. Eliminations have heads up and dial in racing involved, so if you want to go rounds in eliminations build a fast consistent car, A thru G, as in bracket racing it is easier to chase and 1st redlight looses.

The reason I bring this up, is once you are hooked on class racing, you will have fun from the beginning, but then you will want to win so consider all your options.

A good source of info is Nitro Joes Stats, he is a member on here, contact him thru this website. He has the list for the fastest times for each car and combo per class, this may help your decision. It will also show you which combo dominates a class. Just to give you a idea of what is out there, K/stock had 9 stick shift cars last year nationally and the fastest was a 283 66 nova that ran 1 second under the 12.55 index. only 2 ran .90 under or better

K/stock automatic had 51 cars nationally and 14 ran .90 under or better
The fastest was a 1989 firebird with a 350

Good luck and hope this helps

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Personally I enjoy building my own car, lots of self satisfaction when done, then you run under the index! Cool. But the reality is when i built my 68 Impala I spent up to 20K on parts and machine work anyway, this is with a lot of free help from friends who owned machine shop. (Jimi Vignogna and his dad, Pat Hennebery did my heads) I did get all the "good" stuff, probaly overdid some stuff. The reason I am building this 65 Impala now is only because of all the parts I already have.

Just my 2 cents

Will Lamprecht
65 Imp

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

On my Pure Stocker, I built it.

On my NHRA Stocker, I bought it turn key. No regrets. It has worked out great for me. (so far) :)

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

cmon guys teach him how to do it 2013 style...

option A
start by picking your combo
then begin to write letters to the hp committee
get your -20 or so hp off ...
then go racing...

or option B
spend big buck$$$ and buy a cobra jet
then go racing

seroiusly... buy a car, go racing
have fun...keep wife happy

jack

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I appreciate the input guys!!!
Right now,I'm trying to gather as much information as possible.As far as buying/building I would not mind buying something roller(Stocker material of course) or maybe buy a complete car.I could swing 25k-30k once my car is sold.Building from scratch scares me !!! I doubt i will go that route this time.Been there done that.Like it was said by the time I figure it out I could of bought one.I am looking for something in the middle.Roll cage done,suspension done,etc...Body work is not a problem for me.Ive seen a few in the past that seemed like great deals but just wasn't ready.
On another note ,what would an engine go for(350).Something competitive? And where can I get a rule book?

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

On the $ part how fast do you want to go? You can probably find a good backup motor that will run under the index for 3-5K; if you want a 1 under piece then be prepared to spend 12-15K but beware that they are worth that only if you have done your homework and tested all the chassis, converter, clutch, etc variables so that you can use that much power. To get a rulebook you need to join NHRA and you can then log in and get an electronic copy. Cheaper is to have a friend print you off a PDF file of the rulebook (or applicable sections).

You're getting a lot of great feedback, good luck.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

lol:d

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Thanks for,all,the input
No biggie , I am going to join the NHRA ,
On the engine that's what I figured at least 12k ,but of course everything needs to work together and that's more $ !!! .Ive been down this road.I just don't want to make any mistakes cause this is real new to me and a bit intimidating .There are some bad ***** looking cars out there that were running some impressive numbers.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I agree with the others; buying a finished car is the most cost effective approach and will allow you to get out racing that much sooner. Whatever you decide it's good to hear that another new Stock Eliminator racer will soon be out there. Welcome!

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Here's a good deal on a motor...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=49054

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Wow! best deal for sure and from a Great guy and engine builder!CR

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Wow !!! That is a good deal ! And they are good builders ! All I need is a car ! I was going to go look at a 70 Camaro tomorrow ! I'm waiting for my rule book so I can start studying !!
LOL !

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

You have a PM

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Check your PM's

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Ok ,how about a. 93-2002 Camaro ,they seem to be cheap now a days.I can get a project car for about 1,000-1,500. Still waiting for my NHRA rule book.after walking aroun the Auto Fair and seeing that people want Barret Jackson prices for cars that seem to be pulled out of a marsh not even a barns ! I would appreciate some input .
Thanks for all the responses.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I would say their are not a good starter car. The LT1 has been flogged and hit with HP pretty hard. It would take an experienced racer to build one that's competitive and you have the new cars to deal with.
The LS1 seems to have some room left if you can build a top notch piece.Not a piece of cake for a new racer. Probably expensive to build one that's competitive and you still will be a sitting duck for the new cars.
Unless you buy one that's flogged you will lose any heads up races until it's lined out and by the time you lose to the other LT1's and LS1's then lose to any 2008 or newer cars you will wish that you had chosen another combo.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

IMHO..that can be said with most combinations.
Except the new factory racers.

D

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Well, what exactly are we saying here? Sadly what is being said above is true. S/SS racing is tough, always was. For someone starting from scatch, this sounds like a tough call. A good established NHRA car, not a new factory car mind you. Costs what? A car that can approach the 1 second under that is required to be competitve on a national level, maybe buy a running car for 15-20K?

It will take in the neighborhood of that to build a car doing it yourself. And at that, no guarantee that the car will even run the index, much less under to any degree. How long before the 100K+ Factory cars dominate the field. Getting to be more and more of those everyday, it seems. Dare I say it but with the advant of the Factory cars, I'm looking at Stock in the same light as we saw Pro Stock 35-40 years ago in relation to cost? Am I right or wrong?

Doesn't sound real encouraging for someone wanting to break into the game? Just some rambling thoughts on a Sunday morning.

On a side note, I looked real hard at the 93 Camaro out of N.C., posted in the For Sale section. Seems like a really nice car for the money. It is an IHRA only car. Even my wife liked it, told me to buy it if I really wanted it, LOL! You would need to know how cheap my wife is to tell me to BUY another car. Myself being unfamiliar with the LT-1 engines and considering what it would take to convert the car to an NHRA car. I came to the conclusion that it might not be the best car for me.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Dan is exactly right! If you're dead set on NHRA class racing you better bring lots of money. Period. If you want to do it on the cheap you won't be happy anytime you have a heads-up race.

IHRA Pure Stock racing is still the only affordable, entry-level way to class race, not break the bank and be able to have a car that is competitive within it's class.

Scott

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

All the classes have competitive cars.
Getting a ready built car will require update and maintenance.
New from scratch builds may less expensive in the long run.
Their is lots of information to get a car competing quickly.

Most combinations will work.
Pick one.

Like Tar Heal said.
Pure Stock is a great way to build a car and be competitive.
I do not care what you get you are going to work on it to go faster.
Dive in the fun has just begun.

D

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Here,Here!! #1, keep wife happy!! #2, Have fun!! We tell our kids and been told our whole lives, " Your playin for the FUN of it!!"

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Money can make you fast, it will not always make you fast. It has to be well spent. I've seen people spend a lot of money in Stock and Super Stock and never get close to 1 under, and I've seen them break a lot of parts and go broke trying.

There are people who are going fast who do not, and have not, spent a ton of money. But they've chosen a good combination and worked on it for a while. There is still something to be said for buying a fairly well flogged combination for a good price, and then investing a little more money and a lot more time, wisely.

It is a myth that you must spend $50K to $100K to go pretty fast. If you buy a decent car for $20K or so, and you work on it, and test it, you can usually go 2 tenths faster for less than $10K. Provided you work hard and smart, instead of throwing money at it. There are 1 under cars for sale for $30K or less if you know where to look. I've seen a couple for $25K or so.

The new factory cars are mostly a problem for guys like us, who have a combination that fits the upper classes. Most mid class cars will not see a new factory car in their class. Being able to fit only CC, A, or B, we're going to see new factory cars in our class. It is something we've learned to deal with. The only other combinations we can afford to build right now, because we already have a lot of the parts, allow us to move up to BB, or down to C. We're stubborn, and we like our combination.

Choose a good solid combination, and choose wisely when you purchase the car. Then talk to the right people, and spend money with the right people. Be prepared to humbly ask for, and accept, good advice and help, then put it to work.

By the way, it is only cheaper to build a car rather than buy one if you have a lot of experience in class racing, and can do most, if not all of the work yourself. You can buy a car at 40-60% of what it costs to pay someone to do the work, plus what the car to start with costs. If you buy a car then pay to have most of it done, and buy new parts, you'll almost certainly pay double what you can buy one for. You'll also almost certainly make some mistakes, and some of those mistakes may be expensive. The way to buy a used class car is to get a good class racer who is familiar with the combination to help you find one, see it run, and buy it. You'll have someone there to tell you what is right, and what is wrong, with any car you look at.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

What does flogged mean ????
This seems alot more involved and intimidating by the post ! LOL !
Plenty of IHRA tracks down here.I guess I'm gonna have to get and IHRA rule book !
I thought about the idea of the 4 th generation Camaro cause they are a dime a dozen ! I seen a V8 car the other day in someone's driveway.$1000 .150k miles,V8,original owner,NO T tops.Mint interior,back seat did not look like it was sat in,console and dash were perfect as wella as carpet,paint was a little faded and it had a few really small parking lot dings . I would end up painting any car I but anyway being I was in the body business .I figured get a car I can afford right now and start working on it till my race ar sell.
Will that car work in IHRA ?

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Flogged-means simply, working on the car as a whole. You have to differentiate Stock from Bracket racing. In stock, you have to approach it from the angle that, there's only so much available from the engine and transmission. You have to look at the total package. Where can you find time in the car after you've built a legal engine and transmission and tuned it. You have to learn what you can do with the suspension, weight reduction or how to remove and replace weight where you need it.

Stock takes a little more than just grabbing the Jegs/Summit catalogue or running to the local speed shop (if you're still lucky enough to have such a thing, any longer) to make a car go fast. I wouldn't say a car can't be built with other peoples castoffs and swap meet junk, you'd really need to know what you're doing.

To agree with Alan. Be willing to listen. For the most part, when I've approached guys at the track, they're more than willing to take a few minutes and explain what they've done. Most will tell you what THEY think you will need to do.

On a personal note. If you're in a locale that has a good number of IHRA tracks within a reasonable distance. I would certainly look at the Pure Stock option. I think, it would be a good way to get your feet wet, maybe not get your feelings hurt as quickly. Plus, you might just run into some people running a similiar combo, be able to piggy back some information. Make a new friend or two along the way. Just my opinion.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

I really haven't figured out why pure stock would be so much cheaper? Maybe you take a totally original car to a race and qualify, I'm not sure, but if you want to have killer car the costs would go up. If you wanted to build a top of the class car I doubt there would be a 3K$ difference, if you can do most of the work yourself. I've never seen the pure stock rules so as usual I'm probably all wet.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Between here and racing junk, I quickly found 8 nice Chevy cars for under $30K, most are 0.8 under or faster and can go 1.0 under with a little work and money.

If you cannot bend and weld in your own cage (and subframe connectors if needed) build your own engine, transmission and rear end, and do most of the other work, you cannot build for that price. Be aware that there is a considerable difference between building a bracket engine and transmission and building a class engine and transmission. Sure, the fundamentals are the same. But the attention to detail, and the need to know what to buy and who to buy it from are far different.

These cars are already set up by good racers, most of the work is already done. A couple that are under $25K had the potential to pick up two tenths for under $5K. A couple of them could change combinations and move into several other classes.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Our C5 runs almost 1 under in Pure Stock in good air and we've added gears, headers, light wheels, drag radials, a converter, a good tune, etc. The difference comes in $$$ comes in a couple areas:

1. We have OEM cylinder heads. Never touched. To be competitive in Stock you have to run $3500+ Layer heads.
2. Factory computer. How much for a complete Accel or similar system? $2500+?
3. Our converter is an off-the shelf "street" converter (Yank SS4000) that we actually bought used for $500. Also, transmission is completely stock. What does a race converter and metric transmission cost? $5000?
4. Also, no roll bar needed, expensive lifters, valve springs that need replaced all the time, radial slicks that are junk after how many runs, ...

Just in that list above I've come up with about $15,000 in savings and we still are capable of running a second under in good conditions. Yes, we have a Corvette which is more expensive than say an F-body but that's what we had, what we wanted to build, and a little different than other cars in our class.

Scott

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

PERFECT car and great price! What year is it? I'd snatch that up if it was clean. Yes, that car will work in Pure Stock. Depending on the class you would like to run and weight you add I believe that's B-D/PS. If you run B (might not be able to get it light enough) it's a 12.45 index in the 1/4 and 8.10 in the 1/8. You can look up the C and D indexes on ihra.com. The nice thing about 4th generation cars are CHEAP aftermarket parts. Nice 1.75" headers for $500, Weld wheels, find a good used converter, put a 4.10 gear in, drag radial, etc. You could get that car to run the index for about $3000.

Come on into B/PS ... the water is fine! :D We were testing last night and went 11.74 @ 113 with a 1.53 60' at 1900' DA and 150+ lbs. overweight.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

So are you saying you have taken your car as far as pure stock allows? You are using all the best parts allowed and built the drivetrain as far as the pure stock rules allow?

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

Oh no ... by no means. We're running a $500 used street converter and stock transmission. A race converter and transmission with lightweight internals would go faster. Also, the car could take more gear. The longblock is stock other than a legal Bullet cam ... someone like Jeff Warren could pick it up significantly with better heads and shortblock tricks. A lot of weight could be removed and then relocated to the rear if necessary. There is honestly another half second in it if we got serious. But, if we put our OEM wheels and tires back on we could turn the AC on and drive this car across the country tomorrow.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

That is the point I was trying to make. Pure stock is cheaper for you because you want it that way. If you choose to try to make your car the fastest the cost would go up. It's the same in NHRA. Fast costs money.

Re: I want to go Stocker Racing
 

There is a huge difference.
There maybe $3k difference in some cars. Mostly lower class.
However it is the legacy costs such as fuel and racing seat belts.
Full Stocker engines can run $10-$15k.
Got to match that up with a proper trans, rear, headers, roll bar..etc, etc, etc.

There seems to ba rival of more racers running Pure Stock.
If NHRA adds it you will see a large shift.
They are less stressed and more reliable inthe long run.

Dan